• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

GOP propoganda working on the ACA

When people hear about changes brought out by the Affordable Care Act, but don't know it's because of the Affordable Care Act, they are favorable to the changes being brought about. Once people know it's the Affordable Care Act they instantly dislike the changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act.

There are certain people who are indeed very stupid.
 
Bahahaha, yes, if most Americans don't like Obamacare, it must be because of propaganda. It couldn't possibly be because it's awful.

What's so awful about it?
 
What's so awful about it?

1) By mandating employer insurance for a certain # of work hours, all it's done is push more people to less work hours.
2) Congress and about 100 other buddy organizations are exempt. (That's how you know it's a good idea!)
3) It was a lie that everyone could keep their own doctor under the ACA.
4) Premiums for the average consumer have not only not dropped, but have increased. Which is a pretty obvious effect. The government mandated increased demand without doing anything to increase the supply, therefore premiums rise.
5) More government control in healthcare decisions
6) More than 150 new boards, agencies and programs, making our government even more bloated.
7) And most importantly of all, the bill was a mountain of paperwork that nobody fully read. Our politicians passed it without knowing what was in it, and it was littered with lobbyist bull****.

Don't get me wrong, I think an opt-out public healthcare system like Germany's could work, but this is DEFINITELY not the way to do it.

I also think it's kind of sad that the left's best argument is "Oh it's actually really good, the right wingers are just forcing propaganda on everyone."
 
1) By mandating employer insurance for a certain # of work hours, all it's done is push more people to less work hours.
2) Congress and about 100 other buddy organizations are exempt. (That's how you know it's a good idea!)
3) It was a lie that everyone could keep their own doctor under the ACA.
4) Premiums for the average consumer have not only not dropped, but have increased. Which is a pretty obvious effect. The government mandated increased demand without doing anything to increase the supply, therefore premiums rise.
5) More government control in healthcare decisions
6) More than 150 new boards, agencies and programs, making our government even more bloated.
7) And most importantly of all, the bill was a mountain of paperwork that nobody fully read. Our politicians passed it without knowing what was in it, and it was littered with lobbyist bull****.

Don't get me wrong, I think an opt-out public healthcare system like Germany's could work, but this is DEFINITELY not the way to do it.

I also think it's kind of sad that the left's best argument is "Oh it's actually really good, the right wingers are just forcing propaganda on everyone."


I just looked up a plan with 100% coverage after 3.5k deductible from Blue Cross for 204 per mnth. Now a person like me is going to burn that deductible pretty quick so its basically 500 per month. That sure beats the 900 I'm shelling out right now As ar people cutting hours because of this I call BS the rate increases are at a low point.
 
I just looked up a plan with 100% coverage after 3.5k deductible from Blue Cross for 204 per mnth. Now a person like me is going to burn that deductible pretty quick so its basically 500 per month. That sure beats the 900 I'm shelling out right now As ar people cutting hours because of this I call BS the rate increases are at a low point.

For some the costs will go down, for most, it will rise. That's how redistribution works. The ACA does absolutely nothing to reduce healthcare costs. It funnels more taxpayer funding into the hands of billionaires.

Here's an example of even local governments reducing hours because they can't afford the healthcare costs.
Local governments cutting hours over Obamacare costs

This is typical bull**** we can expect from congress. Start with good intentions (mostly), but create a 5,000-20,000 (estimates vary) page monster that every lobbyist in washington has gotten their mitts on. It does nothing to decrease the cost of healthcare, and pushes massive subsidies into the hands of the billionaires that run the healthcare industry.

Not every business can afford full healthcare for their workers. The left seems to think every businessman in America is a rich monopoly man just scheming to make more cash, when in reality most of them are just struggling to get by in this economy. For many, it's reduce hours, or close up shop.

If there were absolutely no other arguments, this should be enough:

obamacareregs.jpg


Legislation can not function properly if no human being has the capability of fully understanding it.
 
1) By mandating employer insurance for a certain # of work hours, all it's done is push more people to less work hours.
2) Congress and about 100 other buddy organizations are exempt. (That's how you know it's a good idea!)
3) It was a lie that everyone could keep their own doctor under the ACA.
4) Premiums for the average consumer have not only not dropped, but have increased. Which is a pretty obvious effect. The government mandated increased demand without doing anything to increase the supply, therefore premiums rise.
5) More government control in healthcare decisions
6) More than 150 new boards, agencies and programs, making our government even more bloated.
7) And most importantly of all, the bill was a mountain of paperwork that nobody fully read. Our politicians passed it without knowing what was in it, and it was littered with lobbyist bull****.

Don't get me wrong, I think an opt-out public healthcare system like Germany's could work, but this is DEFINITELY not the way to do it.

I also think it's kind of sad that the left's best argument is "Oh it's actually really good, the right wingers are just forcing propaganda on everyone."

What evidence do you have that premiums have gone (or will go) any higher than they've gone in previous years -- where we've often seen at least a 5-6% increase in standard, run-of-the-mill health insurance plans for YEARS?

What evidence do you have that people won't be able to keep their doctors?

Or that Congress is exempt? Or that 100 other buddy organizations are exempt?

Or that there will be more government control of your healthcare?

You can say all of these things, but that doesn't make a one of them true.
 
What evidence do you have that premiums have gone (or will go) any higher than they've gone in previous years -- where we've often seen at least a 5-6% increase in standard, run-of-the-mill health insurance plans for YEARS?

What evidence do you have that people won't be able to keep their doctors?

Or that Congress is exempt? Or that 100 other buddy organizations are exempt?

Or that there will be more government control of your healthcare?

You can say all of these things, but that doesn't make a one of them true.

Really maggie? I expect more from you.

- List of Obamacare Exempt Companies
As for congress, I'll let you figure that one on your own. If you didn't know they exempted themselves, I fear you might be highly uninformed on the subject.

- The entire concept of the ACA is to have more government control over my healthcare. Why else would it exist if not to control things?

- From Dep. of Health and Human Services:
HHS Admits: You Might Not Be Able to Keep Your Doctor Under Obamacare | The Weekly Standard

- Health insurance premiums rise 4% - Aug. 20, 2013
We've already had a 4-6% increase (varying estimates) in health care costs, and the ACA isn't even fully implemented yet. They're increasing demand without increasing supply. I'll let you do the math yourself.


But hey, by all means Maggs, I'd like to hear your defense for a 5,000-20,000 page bill that no human has fully read.
 
Really maggie? I expect more from you.

- List of Obamacare Exempt Companies
As for congress, I'll let you figure that one on your own. If you didn't know they exempted themselves, I fear you might be highly uninformed on the subject.

- The entire concept of the ACA is to have more government control over my healthcare. Why else would it exist if not to control things?

- From Dep. of Health and Human Services:
HHS Admits: You Might Not Be Able to Keep Your Doctor Under Obamacare | The Weekly Standard

- Health insurance premiums rise 4% - Aug. 20, 2013
We've already had a 4-6% increase (varying estimates) in health care costs, and the ACA isn't even fully implemented yet. They're increasing demand without increasing supply. I'll let you do the math yourself.

But hey, by all means Maggs, I'd like to hear your defense for a 5,000-20,000 page bill that no human has fully read.

Congress is NOT exempt from the AHA: The Lie that Obamacare Exempts Members of Congress - Susan Milligan (usnews.com)

If you choose a plan in the exchange that doesn't have your doctor as a provider, yes, you would lose your doctor. But you don't have to choose that plan!! Jesus. That is just exactly as it is now when you switch employers. Exactly.

As to health insurance premiums raising 4% per your 8/14/13 link, what do you think they rose in previous years?? That particular increase (as all the ones before it) had absolutely NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Obamacare has not been implemented yet.

One of the major issues is that premiums are rising exponentially. This is nothing new! Further, the AHA provides for preventive care without any copays and without regard to deductibles. Lets one's children be on their policies through their employer or individually until their age 26, completely REMOVES the lifetime benefits cap, and increases annual coverage limits. Is that free? Probably not. What the hell is?

Your answer to just how the government is going to control your healthcare is, in essence, "Well, it must. It's there, isn't it?" What kind of answer is that?? I'll tell you what kind it is -- it's the kind of meat I sometimes put on my sandwich at noontime.

I'll tell you at least one person who hasn't read the bill -- and doesn't understand it -- and makes assumptions about how it's going to be run: You
 
Congress is NOT exempt from the AHA: The Lie that Obamacare Exempts Members of Congress - Susan Milligan (usnews.com)

If you choose a plan in the exchange that doesn't have your doctor as a provider, yes, you would lose your doctor. But you don't have to choose that plan!! Jesus. That is just exactly as it is now when you switch employers. Exactly.

As to health insurance premiums raising 4% per your 8/14/13 link, what do you think they rose in previous years?? That particular increase (as all the ones before it) had absolutely NOTHING to do with Obamacare. Obamacare has not been implemented yet.

One of the major issues is that premiums are rising exponentially. This is nothing new! Further, the AHA provides for preventive care without any copays and without regard to deductibles. Lets one's children be on their policies through their employer or individually until their age 26, completely REMOVES the lifetime benefits cap, and increases annual coverage limits. Is that free? Probably not. What the hell is?

Your answer to just how the government is going to control your healthcare is, in essence, "Well, it must. It's there, isn't it?" What kind of answer is that?? I'll tell you what kind it is -- it's the kind of meat I sometimes put on my sandwich at noontime.

I'll tell you at least one person who hasn't read the bill -- and doesn't understand it -- and makes assumptions about how it's going to be run: You

Tell me one person who has read the bill cover to cover.

You don't see any issues with legislation that nobody has read and is flooded with lobbyist demands?

And what the hell maggie, why would I need to explain to you that the entire purpose of a law is to control the citizenry, which can be good or bad. Whichever it is, it is still CONTROLLING THE HEALTHCARE OF THE CITIZENS.
 
Tell me one person who has read the bill cover to cover.

You don't see any issues with legislation that nobody has read and is flooded with lobbyist demands?

And what the hell maggie, why would I need to explain to you that the entire purpose of a law is to control the citizenry, which can be good or bad. Whichever it is, it is still CONTROLLING THE HEALTHCARE OF THE CITIZENS.

Back to the argument of, "Well it MUST be bad . . . " No. That's no argument. Why are you not addressing the specifics you listed that I've shown are incorrect? Because you have nothing. (No offense. This just happens to be a hotspot with me.)

Medicare. That's completely government controlled. Best medical care money doesn't buy. $99/month plus a $350/month supplemental policy premium plus $39 for Part D (for medications) buys my 86-year-old mom her choice of doctors at, it just so happens, a university hospital (one of the finest in the country), all of her medications, in-home nursing, in-home rehabilitation, in-home hospice care, any and every diagnostic test her doctors see fit to prescribe. Want one they're not comfortable with? Speak up. It'll get done.

The right is going to look pretty damned stupid when this washes out. And I can't wait to say, "I told you so." This approach to health insurance has been long overdue in this country. It's about damned time.
 
The right is going to look pretty damned stupid when this washes out.

That's exactly what is going to happen, and it's what is likely to cost Republicans the next two elections and why Hillary is gonna be our next president.

I'm not an Obamacare supporter, but it's not going to end with the devastation of our healthcare system or our economy. It's not even going to noticeably effect most voters, so those who have been listening to the right wing anti-Obamacare rhetoric are highly likely to be turned off to the conservative cause for a long long time.
 
That's exactly what is going to happen, and it's what is likely to cost Republicans the next two elections and why Hillary is gonna be our next president.

I'm not an Obamacare supporter, but it's not going to end with the devastation of our healthcare system or our economy. It's not even going to noticeably effect most voters, so those who have been listening to the right wing anti-Obamacare rhetoric are highly likely to be turned off to the conservative cause for a long long time.

I actually hate liking this post, but I like it more than I don't. Hillary? Help me, God!!!
 
I actually hate liking this post, but I like it more than I don't. Hillary? Help me, God!!!

What he actually said was that it's all about the propaganda...
 
1) By mandating employer insurance for a certain # of work hours, all it's done is push more people to less work hours.
2) Congress and about 100 other buddy organizations are exempt. (That's how you know it's a good idea!)
3) It was a lie that everyone could keep their own doctor under the ACA.
4) Premiums for the average consumer have not only not dropped, but have increased. Which is a pretty obvious effect. The government mandated increased demand without doing anything to increase the supply, therefore premiums rise.
5) More government control in healthcare decisions
6) More than 150 new boards, agencies and programs, making our government even more bloated.
7) And most importantly of all, the bill was a mountain of paperwork that nobody fully read. Our politicians passed it without knowing what was in it, and it was littered with lobbyist bull****.

Don't get me wrong, I think an opt-out public healthcare system like Germany's could work, but this is DEFINITELY not the way to do it.

I also think it's kind of sad that the left's best argument is "Oh it's actually really good, the right wingers are just forcing propaganda on everyone."

This is pretty much exactly the problem highlighted in the OP (I assume).

Anecdotes, the plural of which is not "data,' about the employer mandate (which has been delayed anyway), an oft-repeated myth about blanket exemptions, a misunderstanding of how the insurer/provider network connection works, a lack of acknowledgement that an average 4% premium increase is among the lowest of the last decade+ (overall, health spending growth, health care price inflation, and per capita Medicare spending growth are the lowest ever recorded in the United States right now), generalities about unspecified "government control," more blather about unspecified new bodies, and the obligatory nonsense that in 8 months of Congressional and public debate, 5 Congressional committee mark-ups and floor debates in each chamber, committee hearings that began in 2008 and a presidential election in which health care figured prominently, nobody knows anything about these reforms.
 
Americans still to stupid to read.

Unions ignored the Republican propaganda and backed the law... :cool: From your post it sounds like it's going to work out well for them.
 
Back
Top Bottom