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god

Aurora151989

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How would you judge those who never heard the word of God? They were never baptized, never preached to, never taught, so do they have a shortcut to hell based on no fault of their own? If they do not know the law, how can they disobey it? That is the theory presented by "someone", whose identity is not relavant to this discussion, and it makes sense to me that there is more punishment due to those who know the law, and violate it, as compared to those who never knew the law.

Or is God an unjust God?
um... I do not know, however i think at the revelations those people will have a chance to choose.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Aurora151989 said:
Utahbill

um... I do not know, however i think at the revelations those people will have a chance to choose.
That's quite an ultimatum.
 

Aurora151989

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well actually, to me this is the easiest choice, either die in a lake of fire or spend eternity in peace
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Aurora151989 said:
well actually, to me this is the easiest choice, either die in a lake of fire or spend eternity in peace
So I suppose the answer is that God is indeed unjust.
 

Aurora151989

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wait.... how does this make god unjust? he's giving them a conscious choice. Imagine standing before god and you are an islander who never heard of him. God says i understand you have never heard of me so i'm giving you a choice....
 

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Aurora151989 said:
Utahbill

um... I do not know, however i think at the revelations those people will have a chance to choose.
So those that live in seclusion will be able to choose because they never knew. Those that know will live their lives trying their hardest to do what their religion says is right.

I guess ignorance really is bliss.

Personally I think if one lives a peaceful, joyful life, is happy and make others happy then there is no reason one to not have a peaceful and happy after-life. No matter what religion.

Dharma.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Aurora151989 said:
wait.... how does this make god unjust? he's giving them a conscious choice. Imagine standing before god and you are an islander who never heard of him. God says i understand you have never heard of me so i'm giving you a choice....
Personally? If a man walks up to me that I've never seen or heard of before and gives me the ultimatum of live my way or die, I'd tell him to kill me. Better to die than to live as a dog. I like to think that I'm God's child rather than is cockroach that he may or may not permit in his home. I think your interpretation of God is an interpretation that lacks mercy.
 

Brutus

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Aurora151989 said:
wait.... how does this make god unjust? he's giving them a conscious choice. Imagine standing before god and you are an islander who never heard of him. God says i understand you have never heard of me so i'm giving you a choice....
Some have to earn thier way into heaven and other can simply shoe their way in by not knowing who God is? Sounds like bunk to me.
 

Old and wise

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There is no such entity as GOD. So what does it matter?

When I die, I will be cremated and that is then end of me. Why should I care about heaven or earth or hell or purgatory? Religion is a fictional creation of the people that need a crutch to lean on because they can not face reality.
 

Aurora151989

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alright then, consider the subject closed...
I'd like to know why a merciful god would punish children for their parents sins. ie orginial sin, adam and eve
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Aurora151989 said:
alright then, consider the subject closed...
I'd like to know why a merciful god would punish children for their parents sins. ie orginial sin, adam and eve
I don't suspect that he would.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Secluded people don't need the Bible or the Torah or Koran or whatever religious text to know the difference between right & wrong.
 

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The Real McCoy said:
Secluded people don't need the Bible or the Torah or Koran or whatever religious text to know the difference between right & wrong.
Agreed. Religions keep their power over the masses by instilling fear.
 

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Just in a cold definition is merely an equal exchange. 1 for 1, not 2 for 1. Since the God y'all seem to be referring to is omniscient and omnipotent, he can see what is and what is not an equal exchange for all of the conditions set to an eternal existence.
He chose to record these conditions into the bible, and he will judge them in the end. Because he knows everything, he alone can judge himself whether or not he is just. We'll just have to take his word on it; quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Mr U
 

God-Is-Holy

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How would you judge those who never heard the word of God? They were never baptized, never preached to, never taught, so do they have a shortcut to hell based on no fault of their own? If they do not know the law, how can they disobey it? That is the theory presented by "someone", whose identity is not relavant to this discussion, and it makes sense to me that there is more punishment due to those who know the law, and violate it, as compared to those who never knew the law.

Or is God an unjust God?
The Holy Spirit is fully capable of imparting the truth to anyone anywhere, if they need it to get saved.
 

kal-el

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George_Washington said:
Fear of what, exactly?
Well people that feel alone, often turn to religion to be their "beacon in the dark" so to speak, and it tells them what to think, so they don't have to think for themselves or question anything because instead of questioning anything, they're constantly forcibly spoonfed "because god wants it like that." And religion instills in people to do good, because it preaches fear of eternal damnation, after we die.
 

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kal-el said:
Well people that feel alone, often turn to religion to be their "beacon in the dark" so to speak, and it tells them what to think, so they don't have to think for themselves or question anything because instead of questioning anything, they're constantly forcibly spoonfed "because god wants it like that." And religion instills in people to do good, because it preaches fear of eternal damnation, after we die.

Well, I can certainly see how people might turn to religion out of fear. I don't doubt that it has happened. But let me ask you this: If a person takes another person's life and isn't sorry for it, don't you think that person should suffer for commiting such a horrible crime? Suppose that person was never convicted here on Earth.
 

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George_Washington said:
let me ask you this: If a person takes another person's life and isn't sorry for it, don't you think that person should suffer for commiting such a horrible crime? Suppose that person was never convicted here on Earth.
Of course they should pay for the crime of taking another's life, but is'nt it kinda primitive, but poetic to believe that that person is going to a burning abyss for etenity?.:lol:
 
T

The Real McCoy

I don't necessarily believe in eternal hellfire and damnation but I can guarantee you that suicidal mass murderers will have a price to pay in the after-life. To suggest that a decent, moral person who has reservations about the divinity of Christ and someone like Hitler (or even Satan himself) are condemned to the exact same fate is insanity and the ultimate in unjust in my eyes.
 

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Satan wanted everyone to be God. He wanted everyone to have the equal amount of power. For this, and he knew this, he was condemned to hell. However, fear of consequence did not repel him. Regardless of the wrath of an omnipotent being, he did what he deemed to be right. Now he rules there, in Hell, true to himself and to his ideals. Whom do I envy? The cur found in Heaven, or the brave down in Hell?

And mass-murderers? Bah. How easy it is to judge. Where you granted the opportunity to such might, would you do differently? Perhaps, perhaps not, but until you have experienced such a situation judging is silly.

Mr U
 

kal-el

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The Real McCoy said:
I don't necessarily believe in eternal hellfire and damnation but I can guarantee you that suicidal mass murderers will have a price to pay in the after-life. To suggest that a decent, moral person who has reservations about the divinity of Christ and someone like Hitler (or even Satan himself) are condemned to the exact same fate is insanity and the ultimate in unjust in my eyes.
I think it's insanity to think that anyone is going to "access" some sort of afterlife after they die.
 

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kal-el said:
I think it's insanity to think that anyone is going to "access" some sort of afterlife after they die.
And what made you come to this conclusion?

I think just the opposite. I think it's quite unrealistic to think that we are born and then we simply die and that's it. If that is the case, than why were we born in the first place? I refuse to believe that our Universe is so cruel as to just suddenly remove us from all existence.
 

kal-el

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George_Washington said:
And what made you come to this conclusion?
Why the hell do we feel the need to be good in order to acess an "imaginary" heaven? And since we are in this discussion,where the hell is heaven anyway?

I think just the opposite. I think it's quite unrealistic to think that we are born and then we simply die and that's it. If that is the case, than why were we born in the first place? I refuse to believe that our Universe is so cruel as to just suddenly remove us from all existence.
It's quite unrealistic to naively think that we all have "immortal" souls, escaping from our bodies after death. This idea is asinine, but rather poetic since it comes from primitive people. Why would the universe be cruel? You seem to think that man is the top tier of the universe. As if, the earth will cease to spin around the sun, if tomorrow we all vanish. :rofl
 

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And what made you come to this conclusion?

I think just the opposite. I think it's quite unrealistic to think that we are born and then we simply die and that's it.
Kierkegaard reminds us that faith is attached from reason. His belief can not be put into recent, because it stands above reason. Life after death is unrealistic, but according to him, it is the very reason for believing in it.

If that is the case, than why were we born in the first place?
Why would there be a reason? Is not the lack of reason, and the ability to give reason to your own world, to your own existence much nicer. You aren't obliged by some external thought to think of something, but you can yourself seek out what you want to do.

I refuse to believe that our Universe is so cruel as to just suddenly remove us from all existence.
Hmm.. At the risk of sounding paternal, it is not about what you refuse to believe or not, the nature of the universe is not up to your discretion. It is, or it is not. In addition, cruel is in the eye of the beholder. To a child a lion ripping apart a gazelle may be cruel, to me it is the way of nature. It is the degree in which we believe in the compassion that christianity preaches that the universe seems cruel.

Mr U
 
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