Girl Dies After Shooting Over Video Game Controller[W169]

[Nilly]

Last time I checked it was 700 a year, that was within a few months. Some sources use questionable criteria (like counting up to age 25 gang bangers as kids).

Accidental shooting deaths have been on the decline for decades.

There CAN'T be 7000 accidental child deaths per year. Total deaths by gun is about 30,000, with almost 2/3rds of those suicides and the majority of the rest homicides of various sorts. 7000 a year is flat impossible.

I checked. The cited 7000 number is gun deaths and injuries.

Around 1200 deaths, 5800 injuries. Plus, also looking at blue_states chart, it still ranks as a ~top 3 killer of children.

I don't think that really makes the situation much better?

 

[Nilly]

In other words, the 9 year-old thought that it was OK to do what they did.

It isn't unusual for people to think that something is OK to do because they don't understand what they are doing and because they have a false impression of consequences.

Heck, if that wasn't the case then the people who run "The Darwin Awards" would go out of business.

Fine, but there is a distinction between knowingly thinking it's ok vs unknowingly thinking it's ok, they both have very different conotations and I think it's unfair to omit that distinction. Particularly in the case of a 9 year old child.

 

[Goshin]

I checked. The cited 7000 number is gun deaths and injuries.

Around 1200 deaths, 5800 injuries. Plus, also looking at blue_states chart, it still ranks as a ~top 3 killer of children.

I don't think that really makes the situation much better?

Still high compared to figures I researched a few months ago, but ok.

60 million gun-owning households minimum (probably 90 million, depends on who you believe). 7000 total deaths and injuries per annum for children.

Rate: 0.016%

Cars still kill more kids. Drowning kills almost as many.

 

[j-mac]

I completely agree that guns should be stored safely! What I don't understand is the supposed rhetoric that if any old item lying around can and will be used as a weapon by these child psychopaths in lieu of a gun (e.g. fire pokers, bowling balls etc) why bother locking guns away and not fire pokers? The answer is shockingly obvious, it is far more likely that a gun is accidently used to kill someone than a bowling ball or fire poker.

That's not my argument.

 

[Goshin]

CDC data.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_injury_deaths_unintentional_injury_2015_1050w760h.gif

For children 14 and under (their next category is 15-24), that shows a few hundred per year total counting both suicides, homicides and accidents.

In a nation of about 330 million.

 

[Nilly]

That's not my argument.

Sorry, the post of mine you quoted was in response to VanceMack, so was replying in reference to VanceMacks argument. I completely agree that guns should be stored safely, because if they're not, it allows terrible accidents like these to become much more common.

 

[Nilly]

CDC data.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_injury_deaths_unintentional_injury_2015_1050w760h.gif

Alcohol and tide pods.

Going by your graph it seems to be the oldies that are ingesting harmful substances

 

[trixare4kids]

I completely agree that guns should be stored safely! What I don't understand is the supposed rhetoric that if any old item lying around can and will be used as a weapon by these child psychopaths in lieu of a gun (e.g. fire pokers, bowling balls etc) why bother locking guns away and not fire pokers? The answer is shockingly obvious, it is far more likely that a gun is accidently used to kill someone than a bowling ball or fire poker.

Who here said guns shouldn't be locked up safely away from children?

 

[tres borrachos]

The question boils down to this:

Should we be against having X in the home, because 0.0016% of the time some kid misuses it and gets killed? (min 60 million gun owning homes, child gun deaths total about 700 annually last time I checked, do the math).

If we did that we'd need to oppose automobiles, which kill far more children than gun ownership...

Absolutely agree with you that more kids die in cars than at the hands of people with guns. But I'm not convinced it's actually the right argument. People need cars to get from place to place, like work or day care or the supermarket or the doctor and so on. Everyone doesn't really need a gun in their home accessible to children. We simply have a Constitutional right to have them (as we should). We don't have a Constitutional right to have cars. So it's kind of not really the same argument, although I get the gist of it.

 

[VanceMack]

Right back at you with the reverse.

Except you whiffed. Again. I’ve never made the claim that people don’t use firearms. You made the idiotic claim that if you as a 9 year old had a gun in your house you would be tempted to use it. 1-I don’t believe you would have but 2-if that’s true...the problem is not with the gun, it’s with you. And that problem still exists.


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[Blue_State]

For children 14 and under (their next category is 15-24), that shows a few hundred per year total counting both suicides, homicides and accidents.

In a nation of about 330 million.

I didn't think his document was very true. I just wanted to put something factual out there. I believe your assessment is that it is a small portion of the population. I would agree.

 

[VanceMack]

I completely agree that guns should be stored safely! What I don't understand is the supposed rhetoric that if any old item lying around can and will be used as a weapon by these child psychopaths in lieu of a gun (e.g. fire pokers, bowling balls etc) why bother locking guns away and not fire pokers? The answer is shockingly obvious, it is far more likely that a gun is accidently used to kill someone than a bowling ball or fire poker.

So you are saying you lack capacity for thought and reason? OK then.


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[VanceMack]

We have plenty of kids having arguments... even occasional fistfights.

We also have guns.

What we (my extended family) don't have is kids shooting each other... or indeed anyone shooting anyone. Not for as far back as I'm aware of (which is quite a long time) among an extended family of over 120 people.

There's a reason for that. Personally I think it is in how we raise children.

Or tragically...how some DONT raise their kids.


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[VanceMack]

I'm not alt-right for nothing.

:lamo

And then you went and got a bigger shovel.


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[Mr Person]

The question boils down to this:

Should we be against having X in the home, because 0.0016% of the time some kid misuses it and gets killed? (min 60 million gun owning homes, child gun deaths total about 700 annually last time I checked, do the math).

If we did that we'd need to oppose automobiles, which kill far more children than gun ownership...

In the real world, I don't think that's the question at all. Being against having guns in the home is a pointless stance (at least as far as advocating for government policy) because the 2nd isn't going anywhere.

I'd say the questions are more long the lines of things like: what can we reasonably do to keep guns out of the wrong hands? Is there anything we can reasonably do to try to prevent this situation happening perhaps via deterrence, like imposing penalties on individuals who were sloppy about keeping their guns secure with the result that something like this happens? How can we improve background checks? Should we consider barring private off-the-books sales from individual to individual? Etc.

 

[VanceMack]

In the real world, I don't think that's the question at all. Being against having guns in the home is a pointless stance (at least as far as advocating for government policy) because the 2nd isn't going anywhere.

I'd say the questions are more long the lines of things like: what can we reasonably do to keep guns out of the wrong hands? Is there anything we can reasonably do to try to prevent this situation happening perhaps via deterrence, like imposing penalties on individuals who were sloppy about keeping their guns secure with the result that something like this happens? How can we improve background checks? Should we consider barring private off-the-books sales from individual to individual? Etc.

Regarding THIS a incident and incidents like this, don’t you think it’s fair to examine why 20 years ago, 30 years ago people kept guns in their sock drawers and while there was the occasional incident, shootings like this were damn near unheard of? And as has been shown...it’s NOT just firearm deaths. There is a change in society that foments violent acts. People getting shot over the last piece of chicken, stabbed over the last run at the BBQ, all out brawls over the last Doll on sale at Christmas time. ****s crazy...we should work to examine why.


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[Nilly]

Regarding THIS a incident and incidents like this, don’t you think it’s fair to examine why 20 years ago, 30 years ago people kept guns in their sock drawers and while there was the occasional incident, shootings like this were damn near unheard of? And as has been shown...it’s NOT just firearm deaths. There is a change in society that foments violent acts. People getting shot over the last piece of chicken, stabbed over the last run at the BBQ, all out brawls over the last Doll on sale at Christmas time. ****s crazy...we should work to examine why.

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[Citation needed]

Just because you didn't hear about it (there was no 24hr cable news nor internet articles back then) doesn't mean it didn't happen. Crime has been on the decline for decades now.

 

[Nilly]

Who here said guns shouldn't be locked up safely away from children?

No-one. Which is exactly my point.

Everyone recognizes that guns should be safely locked away from children. But some people in this thread seem to think that it doesn't matter what objects are lying around, kids will kill their siblings regardless, with a bowling ball or iron fire poker or whatever. I'm pointing out how ridiculous the second position is and the dissonance between the two.

 

[Chillfolks]

I've skimmed the thread has anyone found out the game they were fighting over??

Me and my bro had some pretty good fights over Q-Bert then Mario Brothers when it came to controller sharing. There was always a 357 in the coffee table, we never though to grab it and shoot. Throw a shoe maybe but never pull a gun.

I have to wonder if they were playing or primarily played first person shooter game and how that could of played a role in the choice the kid made.

 

[cuban smokes]

Regarding THIS a incident and incidents like this, don’t you think it’s fair to examine why 20 years ago, 30 years ago people kept guns in their sock drawers and while there was the occasional incident, shootings like this were damn near unheard of? And as has been shown...it’s NOT just firearm deaths. There is a change in society that foments violent acts. People getting shot over the last piece of chicken, stabbed over the last run at the BBQ, all out brawls over the last Doll on sale at Christmas time. ****s crazy...we should work to examine why.


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America was built on violence; we are a violent society. Violence is our history & our curse.

 

[VanceMack]

[Citation needed]

Just because you didn't hear about it (there was no 24hr cable news nor internet articles back then) doesn't mean it didn't happen. Crime has been on the decline for decades now.

And yet the decline in the homes has been ongoing for the last 30-40 years. And it’s not getting better.


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[VanceMack]

America was built on violence; we are a violent society. Violence is our history & our curse.

Yep. Hell we watched violent cartoons, saw violent TV shows, played cowboys and indians...you bet. Violence has been a part of our culture. And yet...things have radically changed in the last 20-30 years. So what is different. NOT the availability of firearms.


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[Sabre]

You're right. If the boy here didn't have access to a gun he would only have found a different weapon. He probably would have made a fertilizer bomb or drove a truck through her bedroom or something. These evil people always find a way

The example is ridiculous of course, while none of those were likely he could have easily walked into the kitchen and grabbed a butcher knife to stab her in the back of the neck.

The parents are actually to blame for most of this, not teaching the boy right from wrong but mostly not securing a weapon in a household with young children. The gun should have been locked in a place where he could not have access to it or have had a trigger lock on it. Tragic no matter how you look at it.

 

[cuban smokes]

Yep. Hell we watched violent cartoons, saw violent TV shows, played cowboys and indians...you bet. Violence has been a part of our culture. And yet...things have radically changed in the last 20-30 years. So what is different. NOT the availability of firearms.


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America has a 'mind set' of violence; people still glorify violence within our society, just as in previous times, but that glorification it is much less subtle than it used to be

 

[notquiteright]

Man-Sentenced-for-BBQ-Fork-Murder Wyoming Man Sentenced to 30 Years for BBQ Fork Murder one-man-stabbed-to-death-another-wounded-at-bbq Man dies after fight over spilled BBQ sauce. Word of caution. Ban BBQs.....

Ahhh the absurd spin of the 'gun' rubbers....

Keywords are our friends- learn to embrace them

MAN sentenced, Man stabs, Man dies...

Where does it say a 9yo BOY stabs with BBQ fork???

Fact is the firearm gave the 9yo the power to end his sister's life.

Fact is the parents left a firearm available to their apparently unsupervised children.

The headline should read "Man goes to prison for 30 years because his 9yo murdered another child with HIS firearm"... eace