Georgia secretary of state calls for nationwide photo ID laws

[ttwtt78640]

Probably because Texas does all it can to avoid making voting access easier and more convenient for it's citizens.

Yep, and likely to protect the jobs (for life?) of those who provide the in-person version of that service.

 

[LouC]

I didn't say it was election fraud, though it's clear it was criminal action...and Raffensperger failed to deal with it or investigate it a year ago. If he had...as Trump asked him to do in that famous phone call...Raffensperger might have found actual election fraud.

But...as I said...Raffensperger is tap dancing now, including walking back the nonsense he said about that Trump phone call.

The guy is up shit creek and he is desperately trying to get out of it.

One would think that if that were so that he would steer clear of TTV as they are unreliable and are playing evil games withholding VITAL information Election Authorities need to proceed with moving forward on any investigation.

One thing for certain so far is that no law violations have been determined yet in the 2020 0r 2021 Elections, in particular regards so called "ballot harvesting." Further even TTV has made it clear that even if folks gathered ballots and placed them in official drop boxes illegally there has not been any inference that the ballots themselves were tainted.

What is interesting is why the Republican legislature suddenly had to rush through the law right before the 2020 election that independent parties could not gather ballots and deliver them? There was nothing I have been able to find that would have indicated this practice had been any problem in Georgia elections?

Except for the fact Georgian Electors were HEAVILY using drop boxes and folks gathering ballots and dropping them off for others in primarily Democratic neighborhoods!

 

[Tender Branson]

Those are some really thoughtworthy reform proposals.

Picture voter ID is something I support and is the case here in Austria too.

When I want to vote, I have to bring my EIC and passport, driving license or personal ID card with me for the election commission at the precinct to see.

In the US, there are many poor people who cannot afford one, so each state must safeguard that these poor people get them for free to vote.

Every citizen older than 18 (16 here) must be automatically registered to vote upon turning voting-eligible.

Only citizens should be allowed to vote in federal or state elections ! Same as here.

But in local elections, non-citizens should be allowed to vote as well (like here).

But not after 30 days as in New York City. Maybe after 3 to 5 years of residency.

 

[Mycroft]

One would think that if that were so that he would steer clear of TTV as they are unreliable and are playing evil games withholding VITAL information Election Authorities need to proceed with moving forward on any investigation.

One thing for certain so far is that no law violations have been determined yet in the 2020 0r 2021 Elections, in particular regards so called "ballot harvesting." Further even TTV has made it clear that even if folks gathered ballots and placed them in official drop boxes illegally there has not been any inference that the ballots themselves were tainted.

What is interesting is why the Republican legislature suddenly had to rush through the law right before the 2020 election that independent parties could not gather ballots and deliver them? There was nothing I have been able to find that would have indicated this practice had been any problem in Georgia elections?

Except for the fact Georgian Electors were HEAVILY using drop boxes and folks gathering ballots and dropping them off for others in primarily Democratic neighborhoods!

TTV hasn't ruled out the possibility that the harvested ballots were "tainted". That's one thing an investigation needs to determine. With Raffensperger conducting the investigation, I don't have any confidence that he will even look into that aspect.

 

[LouC]

Here is some of Raffensperger's desperate tap dancing.

Georgia opens investigation into possible illegal ballot harvesting in 2020 election​

​

Secretary of State Raffensperger says subpoenas could be forthcoming.​

​

Georgia opens investigation into possible illegal ballot harvesting in 2020 election

Secretary of State Raffensperger says subpoenas could be forthcoming.

justthenews.com

Keep in mind that people have known about this illegal ballot harvesting for a year.

It has yet, by a long shot, to be proven that there was any real illegal handling of absentee ballots as the unreliable TTV is claiming. Hopefully if the State Election authorities investigation does turn up ballot handling illegalities that those individuals are fully prosecuted under the law.

Yes the Gov. of Georgia already looked at TTV's alleged evidence and his office chose not to pursue any action based on what they reviewed.

Truly I would like to see TTV's bait dangling land some real fish as all of this long slog of outlandish claims that have not been substantiated is wearisome, even for me a proud Progressive-Liberal-Democrat. I mean all this claimed illegality fore play for so long with never a proven consummation is hard on all of us!

 

[Lursa]

Only if there are also laws that allow someone to provide just their ID number with their signature (perhaps we should also have a password or passcode?) on envelope and then if there is any question about the person being who they claim, cure the ballot, don't just reject. There must be an attempt to contact the voter, explain to them why their ballot was questioned, and allow them a chance to prove they sent that in. Mail in should be an option without needing a printer or scanner.

Our state has that. You have the option to provide your contact info "in case there are any questions about your ballot."

But it is optional.

 

[LouC]

TTV hasn't ruled out the possibility that the harvested ballots were "tainted". That's one thing an investigation needs to determine. With Raffensperger conducting the investigation, I don't have any confidence that he will even look into that aspect.

It is not and never was their place to do any such thing. That has always been in the hands of Georgia Election Authorities. There was no evidence at all that there were any large scale problems or "taint" with absentee ballots from the November 2020 and January 2021 Elections. That has been long established fact. Raffensperger's investigation is into alleged "illegal handling" of ballots and not alleged "Illegal" ballots.

That is a pretty good bet, that he won't look into what has already been established that it did not happen.

 

[roguenuke]

Our state has that. You have the option to provide your contact info "in case there are any questions about your ballot."

But it is optional.

All states should allow it, some do, some specifically sought to not allow it at all, which makes no sense. There should be no reason to oppose such a thing.

Table 15: States With Signature Cure Processes

Which states allow voters to correct signature discrepancies through a ballot or signature cure process and what the notification and correction processes are.

www.ncsl.org

 

[highroller]

I’d love to see how Republicans plan to institute this. It isn’t as easy as mandating it. You have to create a new level of bureaucracy to review and implement the rules.

More government

 

[LouC]

Our state has that. You have the option to provide your contact info "in case there are any questions about your ballot."

But it is optional.

Even in Oregon the election authorities can contact you if there is a problem with your ballot since you receive a ballot unique to you and you must sign the voter affidavit stating you are you when you return the ballot. So they will know who the ballot came from since they are supposed to verify you affidavit signature to your signature on their files.

Right?

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

In the south, many black children have been born outside of hospitals and lack things like birth certificates.

I don’t really care about this voter ID stuff at the moment. However, if you can direct me to an instance of a black person who was born outside of a hospital, is 18 years old or will be 18 before the next election, as a result of their birth circumstance they have never been able to get a proper ID, and would like to vote in the next election but would not be able to if required to have a photo ID…I would like to hear more about their case and if needed donate to any potential fund to help them with their situation.

 

[bomberfox]

Explain under what type of circumstances those questions would be relevant.

If you dont provide ease of access you would be setting up poll taxes or just disenfranchising people the way republicans usually do.

 

[bomberfox]

I can support this with a few conditions... It will be the federal governments responsibility to provide photo id for every US citizen over 18... The federal government will keep a database of each voter registered including their photo and current address (this makes voting in multiple states impossible). Federal voting law will require states to accept either a the printed photo id OR the photo registered in the database. For instance, lost your card, you have to stand in a longer line where they look up your photo before allowing you to vote. The federal government will require the USPS to update the current address.

There are citizens who dont exactly have the sort of address you mention.

 

[highroller]

If you dont provide ease of access you would be setting up poll taxes or just disenfranchising people the way republicans usually do.

There’s a reason people call them Jim Crow Republicans

 

[bomberfox]

There’s a reason people call them Jim Crow Republicans

They did pick up those folks.

 

[BlueTex]

There are citizens who dont exactly have the sort of address you mention.

Voters have to have an address or how does the state know what local elections they are eligible to vote in?

 

[highroller]

For instance, lost your card, you have to stand in a longer line where they look up your photo before allowing you to vote. The federal government will require the USPS to update the current address.

I can’t imagine people already paranoid about government databases giving the A-OK to have every voter in one giant dataset

But that is where we are. They want voter ID but they don’t or won’t want to give the government access to information records

 

[roguenuke]

I don’t really care about this voter ID stuff at the moment. However, if you can direct me to an instance of a black person who was born outside of a hospital, is 18 years old or will be 18 before the next election, as a result of their birth circumstance they have never been able to get a proper ID, and would like to vote in the next election but would not be able to if required to have a photo ID…I would like to hear more about their case and if needed donate to any potential fund to help them with their situation.

Why does it need to be a black person though?

My husband has a cousin who was born in an at home birth and never got a birth certificate because his mother wanted him to be off the record, off the grid. He is of age and has faced a good deal of problems getting a birth certificate because of that. How do you prove you were born in this country if your mother and/or father do something like that?

Living Without a Birth Certificate - South Carolina Legal Services

Imagine you have no birth certificate because you were delivered by a midwife and were born in your parent’s home over 50 years ago. Your birth was never recorded, and there is no record of your birth at Vital Records. Last month we learned about people with birth certificates that needed to be...

sclegal.org

There have been stories of others who were born long ago and didn't get a birth certificate (at home births without records were even more common in the past) and even some where the the records for some people were lost in a fire or other disaster and the hospitals they were born in are no longer there. These can be people of any ethnicity and background though.

Born without a birth certificate, a lifelong struggle for some in the South

There has been a lot of debate in the past decade about photo I.D.’s., Voter I.D., Real I.D., and when you need an I.D. But the issue for many older people in South Carolina and Georgia isn’t the I.D., it’s that they don’t have a birth certificate.

www.wtoc.com

And it does tend to affect those in lower income levels far more than those in higher ones.

 

[TomFitz]

The full one hour audio call is available. Don't know how you walk back what you can hear with your own ears. Do you think the audio was changed?

He claims that Raffensburger walked it back. He made that up.

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

Why does it need to be a black person though?

My husband has a cousin who was born in an at home birth and never got a birth certificate because his mother wanted him to be off the record, off the grid. He is of age and has faced a good deal of problems getting a birth certificate because of that. How do you prove you were born in this country if your mother and/or father do something like that?

Living Without a Birth Certificate - South Carolina Legal Services

Imagine you have no birth certificate because you were delivered by a midwife and were born in your parent’s home over 50 years ago. Your birth was never recorded, and there is no record of your birth at Vital Records. Last month we learned about people with birth certificates that needed to be...

sclegal.org

There have been stories of others who were born long ago and didn't get a birth certificate (at home births without records were even more common in the past) and even some where the the records for some people were lost in a fire or other disaster and the hospitals they were born in are no longer there. These can be people of any ethnicity and background though.

Oh that’s just the post I was responding to. It can happen to anyone. And think of all the other things they can’t do without an ID. Surely there must be some legal fund to help them.

 

[roguenuke]

Voters have to have an address or how does the state know what local elections they are eligible to vote in?

There is a federal only ballot available.

Few voters use federal-only ballots • Arizona Mirror

Only a small number of people in Arizona cast federal-only ballots in the 2018 election, an option that’s available for people who don’t provide proof of citizenship when they register to vote.

www.azmirror.com

 

[TomFitz]

I can’t imagine people already paranoid about government databases giving the A-OK to have every voter in one giant dataset

But that is where we are. They want voter ID but they don’t or won’t want to give the government access to information records

Bear in mind that one of the first things that Trump tried to do was exactly that.

He appointed a “Commission” to investigate voter irregularity.

Their first action was to ask all Secretaries of State in all 50 states to hand over their voter rolls to the committee.\

It was staffed with veteran GOP anti immigration and voter manipulation activists . Shady operatives like Hans Von Spassnofly and Kris Kovach.

Thus, they asked for the voting records of the entire nation.

When even the red states refused to play ball, the “commission” fell apart.

 

[LouC]

This thread is one more long example of why I strongly feel all Americans need to work two or three elections as Poll Workers, preferably in late high school as a piece of the curriculum going forward but as part of legal requirements for everyone else to keep voting eligibility up to date!

 

[LouC]

Bear in mind that one of the first things that Trump tried to do was exactly that.

He appointed a “Commission” to investigate voter irregularity.

Their first action was to ask all Secretaries of State in all 50 states to hand over their voter rolls to the committee.\

It was staffed with veteran GOP anti immigration and voter manipulation activists . Shady operatives like Hans Von Spassnofly and Kris Kovach.

Thus, they asked for the voting records of the entire nation.

When even the red states refused to play ball, the “commission” fell apart.

He tried to find a problem that did not exist. Sadly the commission findings were never made public, from what I understand. All that after $10 to $13 million was spent on the doomed effort, if I remember correctly?

 

[roguenuke]

Oh that’s just the post I was responding to. It can happen to anyone. And think of all the other things they can’t do without an ID. Surely there must be some legal fund to help them.

It would be wonderful, but it is still going to take time to figure it out and some people don't know until basically they go to do things as an adult, including registering to vote or get an ID, and bam, no birth certificate.

When I was working on getting a drivers permit after I joined the Navy, I needed my birth certificate (you don't need it in New York, but do in SC, as a Navy/DOD ID works in New York and some other states). I first tried to get a copy from my Navy record, since my parents said they didn't have it. I found out the Navy did this thing called a "certified verification of birth". Essentially they just got the state I was born in to sign and notarize a form that said the info I gave was true. That is not equivalent to a birth certificate. So then I had no idea how to go about getting it and no one was able to help me when I asked around in the Navy. This was just before the Internet was widespread (98/99) and you can't know what you don't know. So I finally got a copy in early 2000s after my Chief in New York actually showed me how (we had to call up vital statistics in the state and give info about me, my parents over the phone). It was after that I found out I didn't need the birth certificate for the drivers permit, but at least now I had it.

The time to get one could be the real issue. From what I've been told, it can take months, years regardless of funding because you have to try to track down people who can verify the birth, info that can be used to do so.