Ft. McMurray evacuated

[Carjosse]

Yup we saw this on our news down here in the US. An incredibly big forest fire is going on up there.

Maybe Canadians should clear cut more ?!

Well there would probably be no value in cutting it, any amount of money you could get from the wood would probably be offset by transportation and labour costs. It is literally the middle of nowhere.

 

[DA60]

Btw, if you are into commodities, this fire (if it continues much longer) could put an upward blip in the price of oil (being the Alberta oil tar sands are so close). And considering Canada is the world's fifth largest oil producer, the number one source of imported oil for America and that the VAST majority of Canadian oil comes from the tar sands.

Just sayin'...

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Well there would probably be no value in cutting it, any amount of money you could get from the wood would probably be offset by transportation and labour costs. It is literally the middle of nowhere.

It was only valuable for pulp. There were quite a few pulp mills in eastern Alberta but still 150 200 km away

 

[Serenity]

Watched the news this morning, the likelihood of a whole city being burnt to the ground within days is just horrible. All those people who've built lives will have everything destroyed.

I hope there is support for the businesses and people badly affected by this?

Was just watching a report on this, it's so devastating for all of the people concerned. Shocking.

 

[Crosscheck]

This is utterly horrible. They can now smell the smoke from this fire in Florida!!

I have friends in Fort McMurray and have not heard from them but I assume they have lost their homes. The vids on the news looks like a war zone in the middle east.

Heard the other day they had 145 helicopters fighting it and not making a dent. I would like to see the US offer firefighing aid.

 

[Grand Mal]

This is utterly horrible. They can now smell the smoke from this fire in Florida!!

I have friends in Fort McMurray and have not heard from them but I assume they have lost their homes. The vids on the news looks like a war zone in the middle east.

Heard the other day they had 145 helicopters fighting it and not making a dent. I would like to see the US offer firefighing aid.

They probably have. There's firefighters from Mexico there.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Watched the news this morning, the likelihood of a whole city being burnt to the ground within days is just horrible. All those people who've built lives will have everything destroyed.

I hope there is support for the businesses and people badly affected by this?

There are already many different fund raising campaigns. I last heard the Canadian Red Cross has raised more than $30 million with matching funds from Ottawa, along with the regular funds, insurance etc.

They make them tough up there. The fire is still burning and the residents say they will rebuild. That's guts, Canadian grit and determination.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Btw, if you are into commodities, this fire (if it continues much longer) could put an upward blip in the price of oil (being the Alberta oil tar sands are so close). And considering Canada is the world's fifth largest oil producer, the number one source of imported oil for America and that the VAST majority of Canadian oil comes from the tar sands.

Just sayin'...

Interesting take. However unless I am mistaken there is no relationship between oil sands crude and your regular gas making kind of crude. Also, the oil sands project is far to the north, and I doubt the pipelines where affected...

Now there's a thought I don't want to have, a huge wildfire hitting a pipeline..............

 

[jimbo]

How ironic.

Destructive Wildfire near Canada's Oil Sands May Have Been Fueled by Global Warming - Scientific American

Never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[Fearandloathing]

This is utterly horrible. They can now smell the smoke from this fire in Florida!!

I have friends in Fort McMurray and have not heard from them but I assume they have lost their homes. The vids on the news looks like a war zone in the middle east.

Heard the other day they had 145 helicopters fighting it and not making a dent. I would like to see the US offer firefighing aid.

They're there. The relationship between BC & Alberta, with Washington, Oregon, Alaska, Idaho and California is so close it happens automatically. I heard two or three days ago they pulled some Canadian bombers out of eastern Washington, so crew would likely come with it. Some of our wild fire experts spend part of every year in California. They kind of think of themselves as a single entity with standing permissions.

Only PEI and BC are not in there, PEI because they have no expertise and BC because we're on fire too, right now there just aren't enough bombers. As Canadian Forces military arrive manpower is not an issue. The only thing that will stop this monster [some are calling it Godzilla] is lots of bombing at the leading edges, and weather. Without cooling and maybe some rain, we are at her mercy.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Actually there is some documented background.

One, rain/snow fall has decreased over 3 decades, and that latitude now gets about a week more summer than they did in the 70's. The firefighting season in Alberta and BC in those days started May 1. Now, the official season with full call up is March 1.

Our northern rain forests are getting dryer and dryer every year, in BC the total acreage on damaged or destroyed by fire grows every year.

And, less and less of them in percentage terms are 'man made' but rather of 'natural causes', lightening, spontaneous combustion....

 

[Fletch]

How ironic.

Destructive Wildfire near Canada's Oil Sands May Have Been Fueled by Global Warming - Scientific American

What is ironic, or unusual, about you attempting to turn every climate event into a man-made climate event? Its starting to rain here. Is that mans fault too?

 

[Grand Mal]

They're there. The relationship between BC & Alberta, with Washington, Oregon, Alaska, Idaho and California is so close it happens automatically. I heard two or three days ago they pulled some Canadian bombers out of eastern Washington, so crew would likely come with it. Some of our wild fire experts spend part of every year in California. They kind of think of themselves as a single entity with standing permissions.

Only PEI and BC are not in there, PEI because they have no expertise and BC because we're on fire too, right now there just aren't enough bombers. As Canadian Forces military arrive manpower is not an issue. The only thing that will stop this monster [some are calling it Godzilla] is lots of bombing at the leading edges, and weather. Without cooling and maybe some rain, we are at her mercy.

It's heartening the way disaster draws the best out of people. There was an Urban Rescue Team from Vancouver in St. Bernard Parish right after Katrina. I heard the people were so grateful they raised a Canadian flag at the firehall.

 

[DA60]

Interesting take. However unless I am mistaken there is no relationship between oil sands crude and your regular gas making kind of crude. Also, the oil sands project is far to the north, and I doubt the pipelines where affected...

Now there's a thought I don't want to have, a huge wildfire hitting a pipeline..............

I wasn't thinking of gasoline at the pumps...I was thinking of crude oil futures contracts.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Threegoofs]

What is ironic, or unusual, about you attempting to turn every climate event into a man-made climate event? Its starting to rain here. Is that mans fault too?

The irony was regarding the post it was in response to.

Sorry about your poor recognition of reality though. Hope that gets better someday.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I wasn't thinking of gasoline at the pumps...I was thinking of crude oil futures contracts.

But I could be wrong.

I doubt this would have an impact as production is not affected. In any event were are not running anywhere near capacity.

 

[DA60]

I doubt this would have an impact as production is not affected. In any event were are not running anywhere near capacity.

Well, futures contracts often just go on panic and rumor.

With a gigantic fire forcing the evacuation of the city that houses the oil sands employees which produces the vast majority of the oil of the nation that produces the fifth most crude oil in the world...I would be shocked if it did not make at least some impact on the price of crude in futures contracts.

Anyway, I don't think it would be a big jump, but good for a quick profit to a commodity trader. Though the worst of the panic might be over now.

And crude did go up a buck a barrel since the 3'rd.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Well, futures contracts often just go on panic and rumor.

With a gigantic fire forcing the evacuation of the city that houses the oil sands employees which produces the vast majority of the oil of the nation that produces the fifth most crude oil in the world...I would be shocked if it did not make at least some impact on the price of crude in futures contracts.

Anyway, I don't think it would be a big jump, but good for a quick profit to a commodity trader. Though the worst of the panic might be over now.

And crude did go up a buck a barrel since the 3'rd.

With all due respect, oil sands crude is not used in the primary petrolium market. Being far more viscous, it is use primarily as a lubricant in manufacturing. The oil the US most consumes continues to pump out of the ground and be shipped by pipeline to refineries.

You may recall the objection to the Keystone pipeline was in part based on the idea it was "dirty" oil derived from 'tar'. It is dirtier, the reason for so many workers is to drive the tractors to mine the black sand and remove most of the oil from it by steam extraction.

As a side note, the area was a 'badlands' in ancient times, as very little grows there because of the tar. As they mine it, they replace the sand then top soil it and replant with trees, leaving it better than in nature.

I've been listening to this on the radio all day for days and I have not heard one word of this impacting on US supplies; an increase in oil prices would be welcome

 

[DA60]

With all due respect, oil sands crude is not used in the primary petrolium market. Being far more viscous, it is use primarily as a lubricant in manufacturing. The oil the US most consumes continues to pump out of the ground and be shipped by pipeline to refineries.

You may recall the objection to the Keystone pipeline was in part based on the idea it was "dirty" oil derived from 'tar'. It is dirtier, the reason for so many workers is to drive the tractors to mine the black sand and remove most of the oil from it by steam extraction.

As a side note, the area was a 'badlands' in ancient times, as very little grows there because of the tar. As they mine it, they replace the sand then top soil it and replant with trees, leaving it better than in nature.

I've been listening to this on the radio all day for days and I have not heard one word of this impacting on US supplies; an increase in oil prices would be welcome

With all due respect, bitumen oil IS converted into crude oil...it just is much more expensive to do so then light petroleum from oil wells.

'About two tons of tar sands are required to produce one barrel of oil'

Tar Sands Basics

And I am not talking about gasoline per se...just the price of crude oil, which bitumen oil is turned into.


As for the fire affecting the world price, like I said the effect is there but it is not much yet:

'Northern Alberta’s fiery disaster, and fears of a worsening supply problem, prompted global oil traders to bid crude prices up, though they pared gains by the end of the session. U.S. benchmark West Texas intermediate rose 54 cents (U.S.) to settle at $44.32 a barrel. Prices for Canadian heavy oil and light synthetic crude derived from the oil sands also rose on tightening supplies.

If operations can get back on line relatively quickly, as was the case last year when wildfires caused outages far south of Fort McMurray – and if there is no damage to facilities – the market impact should be relatively small, said Jackie Forrest, vice-president at ARC Financial.

“The thing is we’re not certain it’s going to stay that way. It could be that this fire grows and that we actually see some damage to oil sands facilities that isn’t temporary,” Ms. Forrest said.

Estimates place the volume that companies have shut off at between 800,000 and one million barrels a day. Prices have yet to spike dramatically, largely because the outages come at a time of brimming inventories in North America. No companies are estimating when evacuated staff can return from shelters and other temporary housing around the province.

Oil output plummets as Fort McMurray wildfire spreads - BNN News

 

[Fearandloathing]

With all due respect, bitumen oil IS converted into crude oil...it just is much more expensive to do so then light petroleum from oil wells.

'About two tons of tar sands are required to produce one barrel of oil'

Tar Sands Basics

And I am not talking about gasoline per se...just the price of crude oil, which bitumen oil is turned into.


As for the fire affecting the world price, like I said the effect is there but it is not much yet:

'Northern Alberta’s fiery disaster, and fears of a worsening supply problem, prompted global oil traders to bid crude prices up, though they pared gains by the end of the session. U.S. benchmark West Texas intermediate rose 54 cents (U.S.) to settle at $44.32 a barrel. Prices for Canadian heavy oil and light synthetic crude derived from the oil sands also rose on tightening supplies.

If operations can get back on line relatively quickly, as was the case last year when wildfires caused outages far south of Fort McMurray – and if there is no damage to facilities – the market impact should be relatively small, said Jackie Forrest, vice-president at ARC Financial.

“The thing is we’re not certain it’s going to stay that way. It could be that this fire grows and that we actually see some damage to oil sands facilities that isn’t temporary,” Ms. Forrest said.

Estimates place the volume that companies have shut off at between 800,000 and one million barrels a day. Prices have yet to spike dramatically, largely because the outages come at a time of brimming inventories in North America. No companies are estimating when evacuated staff can return from shelters and other temporary housing around the province.

Oil output plummets as Fort McMurray wildfire spreads - BNN News

I am surprised. I had not thought Ft McMurray would make such an impact worldwide, obviously I was wrong

 

[DA60]

I am surprised. I had not thought Ft McMurray would make such an impact worldwide, obviously I was wrong

A) it's not much, so you are not far off.

B) I deal in commodities every day...so I know more then average people as it's part of my job (though I don't trade in oil myself).

and C) big kudos to you for the above post. I am sure you realize how incredibly rare it is for people on here to actually acknowledge when they might not be 100% correct.

VERY COOL.

 

[Fearandloathing]

A) it's not much, so you are not far off.

B) I deal in commodities every day...so I know more then average people as it's part of my job (though I don't trade in oil myself).

and C) big kudos to you for the above post. I am sure you realize how incredibly rare it is for people on here to actually acknowledge when they might not be 100% correct.

VERY COOL.

Oddly, I went looking [after asserting it was not a problem] and could find nothing in the Canadian media. I suspect it's for two reasons,. one we would find it unseemly to talk about oil prices while people are hurting, and two the actual enormity of the problem. every time I get a handle on in my head, it changes. Last word was the active fire now covered an area the size of Mexico City and is moving east away from populations.


And thanks for the compliment. I know what you mean. It's easy to hide in the anonymity of the internet but I can't hide from me...

 

[JANFU]

How ironic.

Destructive Wildfire near Canada's Oil Sands May Have Been Fueled by Global Warming - Scientific American

Canada like the US has for many decades controlled wild fires. In 1970's the boreal forest was approx 5 % over mature forest. It is now north of 40 % mature, 20 % over mature, perfect for a fire to run wild. The dead underbrush, dousing past fires in the end leaves forest at a higher risk of having massive fires. Yes less water does impact it, but a good portion can be laid at our own feet for not letting the fires burn.

Experts warned four years ago that Alberta?s aging forests bring risk of ?catastrophic fires? | National Post

In 1971, more than half of Alberta’s boreal forest was deemed to be young, with about a third classified as immature, five per cent considered mature and a small portion deemed “overmature.”

By 2011 however, that had changed to less than 10 per cent young, about a quarter immature, more than 40 per cent mature, and more than 20 per cent overmature.

 

[JANFU]

Destructive Wildfire near Canada's Oil Sands May Have Been Fueled by Global Warming.
It actually sounds more like a El Nino related weather event.
From your article,

True enough. AB normally receives approx 60 % of its moisture in approx Apr - May. This year snow pack was down significantly. Same as last year.

 

[JANFU]

Watched the news this morning, the likelihood of a whole city being burnt to the ground within days is just horrible. All those people who've built lives will have everything destroyed.

I hope there is support for the businesses and people badly affected by this?

We had the same thing in Slave Lake a few years back. City- suburbs built right up to the tree line. No large fire breaks and clear cut. This should have been a govt priority after Slave Lake happened.