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France to Lift Arms Embargo to China.

Squawker

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France shows the world again they care more about the money than
human freedom and liberty. May as well make it easier for China to
Take control of Taiwan. Way to go France!


U.S. Urges Ban on Arms Sales to China
Mar 22, 6:28 PM (ET)

By BARRY SCHWEID
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration renewed its request Tuesday that European allies maintain an arms embargo on weapons sales to China. While divided European leaders took no immediate action, a top French diplomat signaled there would be no retreat.
"What we had in mind was to do it at the end of June, and so far nothing has been changed," French Ambassador Jean-David Levitte said after a speech at Yale University.
In the speech, the ambassador said France remained committed to lifting the ban on weapons sales to China. "It makes sense to lift an embargo which is obviously outdated," Levitte said.
The diplomat said he hoped the issue would not divide the United States and Europe as the war in Iraq did two years ago.
-snip-
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said Tuesday, "The arms embargo against China is political discrimination, which is not in line with today's reality."
Source
 

Dennis Miller

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I believe China to be the next big thing. And that is a very frightening thought, considering the political attitude their nation's government currently has, and has had for a long time. China, for many years, has been a communist nation, and now it's only about to become worse. What is more horrible than a communist country which puts fear into the hearts of many of it's own citizens, and who has a lengthy list of serious human rights issues? Well, all that, and now a quickly strengthening economy. Not to mention, they now have France, of all countries, backing them up. And I believe we all know that when one EU nation makes a serious decision, the rest will likely follow closely behind. That could very well spell trouble for the rest of the world, or at least for anyone who tries to step in China's way. I don't agree with a lot of what Bush has done in the past term or so, but I do agree with him stepping up against the EU's decisions on this particular issue. This should be something that he seeks backing for. He will need all the backing he can get from other nations if he plans to go up against the EU on this.
 

GarzaUK

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It is called the balance of power, Europe doesn't one nation to have absolute power over the world - it's dangerous.

Absolute power corrupts absolutly. Barely a decade past the Cold War, American Government has started to corrupt its traditional policies, eg unilaterlism, ignorance of international law.

Don't feel too bad, Britain began as and Empire of Liberty and Trade which turned into an Empire of Slavery and Oppression, because of absolute Power.
The Roman Empire began as a Republic ruled my elected officials, absolute power corrupted it into an Empire run by a sole person.

Squawker, why Bush is worried is not because of liberty and human freedom (this words are banded about too often nowadays as a cover), it's about America's balance of power in Asia.
Maybe it's about time the playing field was leveled abit.
 

Arch Enemy

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Though France at times isn't my favorite countries I think this may actually be a good idea.

This gives China the idea that people are actually respecting them, having trade embargoes on the best military country isn't such a good idea. China isn't stupid, they wouldn't dare contradict the wishes of the UN.. unlike some thick-headed Presidents of the US.
China's economy is beginning to boom and we need to be more accepting of China then we have been in the past. Yes, it is true, in a few short years China will be the dominant super-power of the world.. but so what? They were able to grow even without the full support of the US or Europe, time for China to pull up a chair.
 

Fried Rice

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Arms trade is only one means of doing business. We have survived this long without your weapins etc so it really is not as if we are desperate to receive. Merely, it is just another product for us to buy / sell. Govts enjoy arms sales as they give very high margin and there is some back and forth on technology etc. France is very forward thinking country and realise the importance of building positive relations with my country. Even with these arms, we are a peaceful nation unlike USA aggreesor.

Dear Urethra - if you are read this, i have some indirect link to this deal and will travel to France (Paris) soon. Hope you can introduce me to some handsome Frenchmen :oops:
 

Fried Rice

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Dennis Miller said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I believe China to be the next big thing. And that is a very frightening thought, considering the political attitude their nation's government currently has, and has had for a long time. China, for many years, has been a communist nation, and now it's only about to become worse. What is more horrible than a communist country which puts fear into the hearts of many of it's own citizens, and who has a lengthy list of serious human rights issues? Well, all that, and now a quickly strengthening economy. Not to mention, they now have France, of all countries, backing them up. And I believe we all know that when one EU nation makes a serious decision, the rest will likely follow closely behind. That could very well spell trouble for the rest of the world, or at least for anyone who tries to step in China's way. I don't agree with a lot of what Bush has done in the past term or so, but I do agree with him stepping up against the EU's decisions on this particular issue. This should be something that he seeks backing for. He will need all the backing he can get from other nations if he plans to go up against the EU on this.
I am glad you have the intelligence to realise that China is the 'next big thing', but i am sad to see that the rest of your post is to good for garbage bin
 

Arch Enemy

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Fried Rice said:
we are a peaceful nation unlike USA aggreesor.
Fried that wasn't needed.

You're not a peaceful nation when you double your military when you've already said that you were going to reduce your military. You're not a peaceful nation when you threaten to attack another (unofficial) nation. Peaceful nations don't exist.. the only peaceful nation is Sweden, haven't had a war in god knows how long.
 
J

jkyi85

just something i want to throw out...
we all know that china is stepping up in it role economically, politically...etc on both the national and international scene.

its easy for us to say that it'll replace the role of the US, but i highly doubt that being possible...but just hypothetically, would the rest of the world sleep better with China as a superpower or the USA?
 

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Personally, I would prefer China to the USA - and I think it's inevitable. China's developed in leaps-and-bounds since the Communist victory in the 1940/50's (can't remember the exact decade, but around then), going from a backwards peasent land to (in the next 20 years some say) overtaking the globes only lasting superpower in both militry and economic terms.
People have been saying that this is unlikely, but why should it be? Manufacturing is moving to the Asian Pacific, which will, in time, remove the base-level of USA industry, as has occured in much of Western Europe. China also has 1/5 of the world's population in it's borders, so it can afford to develop so rapidly and efficiently, something that took the western world hundreds of years.
And concerning the issue of China's human rights troubles - which nation hasn't broken human rights laws when it didn't suit them? The USA has been braking them in Guantanamo Bay recently, it broke them in Vietnamn 25 years ago - many Western European countries arrest and imprison political adverseries without trial (Spain arresting Anarchistic-Communists under anti-terror legislation, etc). Anyone thinking, "what about Tienneman Square?", well the American Army fired upon and killed peaceful student protestors in the 1960's, the British Government killed miners in the 1980's miners strikes. EVERYBODY DOES IT.
The only reason China is highlighted by the world press is that the world press are controlled by the USA, and the USA feels threatened by the advancement of a Communist country - one that could become far superior in all ways to it.

Anyway, the main point of this thread is that France is removing arms embargos from China. So what? The only reason the USA and it's satellite supporters instated that embargo is because they felt threatened by Communist China's military power. At the end of the day, why should France do what the USA wants it to? They want to capitalise on China's needs, why are Americans in any way so morally superiour that they can say that isn't the way to do things?
 

Squawker

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Hi jkyi85 ! :2wave:

 

Arch Enemy

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Nice post Jay you bring up some good points:

The only reason China is highlighted by the world press is that the world press are controlled by the USA, and the USA feels threatened by the advancement of a Communist country - one that could become far superior in all ways to it
The world press is controlled by the US? geez, I didn't know we had so much of an impact on other countries to be able to control their media. Threatened by a communist country which needs the US to lift its embargo? I am terrified of what I do not know and I would love someone to find the 100% truth of China's motives... I am not saying they are a bad country I am just saying Communist countries tend to suck really bad. You're mistaken by the idea that China can become far superior then the United States in every way.. We will always have a more advanced military and country than China.

Personally, I would prefer China to the USA - and I think it's inevitable. China's developed in leaps-and-bounds since the Communist victory in the 1940/50's
Any country would take great leaps if they had a chairman like Mao Zedong, he was a ruthless leader who exploited and destroyed the higher classes because when he was growing up he was in the working class. He even said that because of this cultural revolution that "15%" of his country was starving.. some great guy.
Personally, I'd prefer the US.. I don't get shot when I want to protest the United States Government.. I know a person whose father works for the United States Embassy.. he recently lived here (US) and hated it here, starting to support Anti-American groups like alot of this here youth of the nation. Then his father got deployed at the US Embassy in China.. This kid (18 Years of Age) now is as patroitic as can be, he wants to come back and live under our sheltered Nation.


EVERYBODY DOES IT.
I'd like to see proof of this.

At the end of the day, why should France do what the USA wants it to?
Simply because our administration thinks that France is a pet to the United States; that after WWII that France owed so much to US and I guess they are mad now that France is doing the right thing.

They want to capitalise on China's needs, why are Americans in any way so morally superiour that they can say that isn't the way to do things?
You need to understand this
Americans have this false representation of Truth vs Lies. I can proudly say I've been lied to lots of times by our Government, our government has been able to enlarge the truth in order to fit their needs.. it's not the people.. it's the government.
 

akyron

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France remained committed to lifting the ban on weapons sales to China.


Hmmph. It appears Jack C is being right up front about his greediness this time instead of sneaking through back channels like he did in Iraq for his weapon sales.
 

Arch Enemy

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what's better being sneaky and getting oil or invading a country and take their oil?
 

akyron

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Arch Enemy said:
what's better being sneaky and getting oil or invading a country and take their oil?

Jacks taking their oil now too? I had not heard that. China has a lot of oil?
 

Arch Enemy

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I have no idea what you just said.

If you're questioning who I meant by "invading and taking their oil" it was meant for the United States of America.. maybe you've heard of em?

and I wasn't talking about anything to do with China, I have to admit.. it is best to wait and "sneaky" get their oil than to invade them.. like what we did against Iraq.

It's not Jack.. it's Jacques have some freaking respect.
 

akyron

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Arch Enemy said:
It's not Jack.. it's Jacques have some freaking respect.



It's France. Rodney Dangerfield gets more respect.(God Bless his soul)
 

Urethra Franklin

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akyron said:
It's France. Rodney Dangerfield gets more respect.(God Bless his soul)

Fortunately they don't need your respect. You're United Statesian - that would harldy be worth much.
 

Arch Enemy

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... and we deserve it... we have people like Akyron who thinks it's funny to make fun of people because they're different, then they wonder why everybody hates us.

Make more jokes about foreign people Akyron.. it defiantly makes you look smarter, Xenophobe
 

Asian-American

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I am no expert, but I personally don't see any problems coming from China: they just seem to be ultra-patriotic, like Americans. Plus historically, I don't recall China being a warring nation, though Ghengas Khan did invade China, as well as Japan during WWII. Has China always been peaceful historically?

To be honest, I think America could actually gain a lot by becoming allies with China, esp. economically. The Europeans, Russians, South Americans, and the Middle East appear to see great economic value in China and are already making treaties and economic deals with them; I think it would be a shame if America got left behind.
 

Arch Enemy

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SketchyAsian said:
they just seem to be ultra-patriotic, like Americans
By saying "Ultra" you're obviously rating America and China as two of the most patriotic nations. In China they tend to dislike their government and are subjected to publicly love their government by fear of torment and punishment. Then you have America with people who tend to publicly show their hatred of the Government because the current administration isn't what I like to call "good". American and Chinese Patriotism is no where as high as many of the European countries like Germany or France who love their country no matter what.

I don't think China is a very peaceful nation. They've been involved with wars, mainly internal, but still wars. Their history holds alot of civil war type eras and ALWAYS the unrest of China. I think an aggressive cannot be a peaceful one and obviously China is an aggressive nation.
 

V.I. Lenin

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China is not communist. China slaps the "communist" label on so people think they're happy utopian thinkers. China has never been communist, it is State-run capitalism and has created numerous human rights violations. While i'm not communist, mearly socialist, i still find it somewhat offensive to call China communist.
 

Arch Enemy

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Hey not doubting your belief.. how would you defend what you just said VI? I'd like to see sources dealing with the definition of Communist and the government of todays China that makes it dispute.

Nice call.. I believe the same.
 

V.I. Lenin

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Communism: As a theoretical social and economic system, communism would be a type of egalitarian society with no state, no privately owned means of production and no social class. In communism, all property is owned by the community as a whole, and all people have equal social and economic status. Theoretically, human need or advancement is not left unsatisfied because of poverty, and is rather solved through distribution of property as needed. This is thus often the system proposed to solve the problem of the poverty cycle.
China: Is run by the Chinese Communist Parties, is a harsh republic were the proletariat really doesn't matter, there is quite a large amount of poverty.

There has yet to be a TRUE communist country that adhears to all of Marx's ideologies. This is why i am not a communist. But still, i just want to show you why i dislike China and it's "communist" label
 

ludahai

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Asian-American said:
I am no expert, but I personally don't see any problems coming from China: they just seem to be ultra-patriotic, like Americans. Plus historically, I don't recall China being a warring nation, though Ghengas Khan did invade China, as well as Japan during WWII. Has China always been peaceful historically?

To be honest, I think America could actually gain a lot by becoming allies with China, esp. economically. The Europeans, Russians, South Americans, and the Middle East appear to see great economic value in China and are already making treaties and economic deals with them; I think it would be a shame if America got left behind.
Ask Tibet, India and Viet Nam how peaceful China is. Ask us here in Taiwan how you can call a country with some 700 missiles pointed at you peaveful?
 
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