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France to Lift Arms Embargo to China.

V.I. Lenin said:
China is not communist. China slaps the "communist" label on so people think they're happy utopian thinkers. China has never been communist, it is State-run capitalism and has created numerous human rights violations. While i'm not communist, mearly socialist, i still find it somewhat offensive to call China communist.

Today, Chinese most certainly is not communist. They are more fascist than anything else. They use nationalism to distract their people from their own problems. The people have little political freedom and they use their control of the press to brainwash people to think Japan has never apologized and that the nation of Taiwan is not only not democratic, be actually belongs to them.

In the words of one Taiwanese lawmaker, "China is a scary country."
 
luda,

There was/is a guy on this forums from China, named Fried Rice. If you read some of the past debates (the one dealing with China Threatening Taiwan) he keeps on saying that the Taiwanese people loves China and believes that they should be together as one. Obviously you're contradicting this statement.. I'd like to is that ideology (which Fried has) just a hoax by the Chinese government to show support for the "non-hostile" uniting of these two countries?
 
Arch Enemy said:
luda,

There was/is a guy on this forums from China, named Fried Rice. If you read some of the past debates (the one dealing with China Threatening Taiwan) he keeps on saying that the Taiwanese people loves China and believes that they should be together as one. Obviously you're contradicting this statement.. I'd like to is that ideology (which Fried has) just a hoax by the Chinese government to show support for the "non-hostile" uniting of these two countries?

Gee, I guess Fried Rice missed that rally in Taipei a few weeks ago with more than a million people that was anti-China. Rallyers were flying American and Japanese flags and even hoisted pictures of Bush and Koizumi (both of whom are quite popular in Taiwan). There were even some ChiCom flags burnt and I even saw one French flag burnt at the rally. However, unlike in China and unlike the pro-China pan-Blue rallies last year after Chen won re-election, this rally was entirely PEACEFUL! Eat that Fried Rice and other China lovers.
 
I think I am starting to like Taiwanese people.. but please don't trust our Government that much they aren't as nice as people think they are. But most of our people are.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I think I am starting to like Taiwanese people.. but please don't trust our Government that much they aren't as nice as people think they are. But most of our people are.

I have met some of the people in the U.S. government and they generally are pretty nice folks. Many of them are strong supporters, even stronger than the President has indicated (though I understand that in private, President Bush is a stronger a supporter of Taiwan than he says in public.)
 
Arch Enemy said:
By saying "Ultra" you're obviously rating America and China as two of the most patriotic nations. In China they tend to dislike their government and are subjected to publicly love their government by fear of torment and punishment. Then you have America with people who tend to publicly show their hatred of the Government because the current administration isn't what I like to call "good". American and Chinese Patriotism is no where as high as many of the European countries like Germany or France who love their country no matter what.

China and America are the most patriotic nations in the world, well patriotic bordering on disallusionment. I've seen in this forum scary patriotism and nationalism, that reminds me of my History lessons on Nazi Germany.
Some people in this forum think you should agree with the Government during war no matter what. Some people (both sides) will act in denial of their party's wrong actions because they dislike the other side so much.

Eg. I don't understand why Republicans disliked the war in Kosovo, but support the war in Iraq.

Saying a pledge of alliegiance (swearing loyalty) in a school - that is ultra patriotism. I'm sure China might do it too.
The Chinese are ultra-patriotic, some are in my class in university, they dislike the Japanese alot. ?

Arch Enemy said:
I don't think China is a very peaceful nation. They've been involved with wars, mainly internal, but still wars. Their history holds alot of civil war type eras and ALWAYS the unrest of China. I think an aggressive cannot be a peaceful one and obviously China is an aggressive nation.

China's and American history is steeped in violence external and internal. Both are imperialistic countries, (America has an empire in all but name). I know that will **** you off, but you should step back and look at the big picture here. American has been an imperialistic and warfaring country since it was born - your roots are British don't forget, you learned from your ancestors.
 
GarzaUK said:
China and America are the most patriotic nations in the world, well patriotic bordering on disallusionment. .
I still disagree with that, There's alot of youths who are growing up to not really like the American Government (well the present one). I feel that the curtains are opening from what we've seen before.. always the bright side of things (in terms of our Governemnt) will soon vanish and we'll start actually getting an idea of the truth. Did I tell you that our censorship is either loosening the noose or falling back on the job.. I've been able to view Area 51 on Google's Satelite Imagery.
Nonetheless I still believe that the French are more proud of their government and show more Patriotism then us Americans, we have daily rallies at the WhiteHouse of people not so happy with their country. Yes, I do believe that the patriotism has increased significantly since 9/11 but still not in some other countries level.
I've seen in this forum scary patriotism and nationalism, that reminds me of my History lessons on Nazi Germany
Some people in this forum think you should agree with the Government during war no matter what. Some people (both sides) will act in denial of their party's wrong actions because they dislike the other side so much.
Totally agree, I believe this war to be a mistake. Yes alot of people are in favor or supporting the war, not because of the reasons for why we invaded or the whole politics scheme, instead they're supporting the war to show their support for their Soldiers, the men and women who have dedicated their lives to the command of the Commander in Chief.
Eg. I don't understand why Republicans disliked the war in Kosovo, but support the war in Iraq.
It's the Republican point of view.. it's now pretty much a bandwagon for most parties.. you agree what you're party believes and you accept what they do.
Saying a pledge of alliegiance (swearing loyalty) in a school - that is ultra patriotism. I'm sure China might do it too.
The Chinese are ultra-patriotic, some are in my class in university, they dislike the Japanese alot. ?
You've got that wrong; Kids in schools aren't forced to say the pledge of alliegiance and 99% of the time the Kids don't even care what they're saying and what those words mean.. they just want to get to "out-side" time sooner.
As soon as I got to the age where I actually understood what the Pledge was about, around Middle-School, we didn't say it anymore.
It's nothing more than my friends the British singing "God Save The Queen" (if that's what you all still chant) or the Canadians singing their national anthem.. we're just lucky enough to get two.

China's and American history is steeped in violence external and internal. Both are imperialistic countries, (America has an empire in all but name). I know that will **** you off, but you should step back and look at the big picture here. American has been an imperialistic and warfaring country since it was born - your roots are British don't forget, you learned from your ancestors.
Not I'm not going to be pissed off because you're absolutely correct. I accept this Imperialistic America for what it is, but I believe that like many countries in their Youth, we'll soon be shown that we are not unbeatable and we will take our place next to the rest of the World, in terms of maturity.
As I've said before, we're built off the foundation of genocide, but what I praise my education system is that they print exactly what happened and exactly how much of a tragedy it was (the teachers usually spend more time on the Indian/ Native American genocide actions and really show us what happened).
 
In response to all of what Arch Enemy said


....hats off to you my friend. I must say i've never agreed more.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
Fortunately they don't need your respect. You're United Statesian - that would harldy be worth much.


It works both ways.
 
GarzaUK said:
China and America are the most patriotic nations in the world.


I disagree. You can't take two steps in the USA without bumping into a liberal hippie democrat protesting the persecution of cockroaches or something.
I always wonder why are they in the streets? Why don't they go get a job?

You do not get much of that in a non democratic nation.
 
GarzaUK said:
China and America are the most patriotic nations in the world, well patriotic bordering on disallusionment. I've seen in this forum scary patriotism and nationalism, that reminds me of my History lessons on Nazi Germany.
Some people in this forum think you should agree with the Government during war no matter what. Some people (both sides) will act in denial of their party's wrong actions because they dislike the other side so much.

In China, this is definately true. However, there the government controls the means of newsgathering and dissemination. Thus, the people there are more tools of the government. The recent anti-Japanese protests are a case in point. The government there whipped the people up in a frenzy, allowed three WEEKENDS of protests. Why can't they REALLY show how angry like Ecuadorans and protest until they get what they want? Because the government there won't let them. The lesson of Tian'anmen was learned VERY well by the Chinese people. DON'T cross the government, protest the U.S., protest Japan, perhaps now they will protest the EU for their recent decision to investigate Chinese textile imports, but DON'T protest the all powerful government.

In the United States, there is a strong threat of patriotism. However, it certainly isn't a case of "my country, right or wrong." Perhaps you have forgotten all of those rather large anti-war protests? I will give those protesting the benefit of the doubt regarding their love for the United States, but they sure as heck didn't go along with the government on the Iraq war.

Eg. I don't understand why Republicans disliked the war in Kosovo, but support the war in Iraq.

I am a Republican, and I wasn't against the notion of a "war" in Kosovo. However, it wasn't really a war, it was a series of air bombings. I supported it, but I think we could have done more. Consequently, many Albanians were butchered by Serbians that perhaps could have been protected otherwise.

I was definately against Somalia, but that is another discussion for another time.

Saying a pledge of alliegiance (swearing loyalty) in a school - that is ultra patriotism. I'm sure China might do it too.
The Chinese are ultra-patriotic, some are in my class in university, they dislike the Japanese alot. ?

How is saying the pledge of allegiance "ultra patriotic". Patriotic to be sure, but the way you word it, you make it sound like a negative. I don't see it as such, nor do I think the adverb "ultra" is appropriate in this case.

The Chinese are not ultra-patriotic of their own volition. They are anti-Japanese because the government has programmed them to be anti-Japanese. Taiwanese have even more reason to despise the Japanese for what they did in their imperial era as it was a Japanese colony for fifty years. While most Taiwanese know what happened, they also see it as something that happened in the past. Don't forget what happened, but move on. Then again, Taiwanese have their own patriotism issues.



China's and American history is steeped in violence external and internal. Both are imperialistic countries, (America has an empire in all but name). I know that will **** you off, but you should step back and look at the big picture here. American has been an imperialistic and warfaring country since it was born - your roots are British don't forget, you learned from your ancestors.

Well, the United States had to fight a war for its independence. However, most territorial acquisitions following that were peaceful: gained through purchase, or in the case of Oregon, an agreement on the delineation of the boundary. The southwest was gained in a war that Mexico started, though to be fair, it was a fight President Polk didn't shy away from.

There is some truth in the notion that there was violence in the sense of the Wild West, but Hollywood has long overblown the role of the gun and violence in the so-called Wild West.
 
akyron said:
I disagree. You can't take two steps in the USA without bumping into a liberal hippie democrat protesting the persecution of cockroaches or something.
I always wonder why are they in the streets? Why don't they go get a job?

You do not get much of that in a non democratic nation.

COCKROACHES ARE LIVING CREATURES OF THE EARTH

...

Just kidding.

However, in response to

ludahai said:
Well, the United States had to fight a war for its independence. However, most territorial acquisitions following that were peaceful: gained through purchase, or in the case of Oregon, an agreement on the delineation of the boundary. The southwest was gained in a war that Mexico started, though to be fair, it was a fight President Polk didn't shy away from.

Remember the Indians?
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Remember the Indians?

Actually, it was only a comparatively small number of tribes that opposed the U.S. in any military manner. They couldn't. Granted, the U.S. did some things that it should not have done with the aboriginal population. However, can you say that there is any major nation on earth that didn't displace an aboriginal population? What happened to the aboriginal population of France? They were forced out. Japan? Forced north. China? Exterminated or forced south. The list goes on and on.

It doesn't excuse it, but my basic point was also an accurate one. We acquired the territory from the European countries (or Mexico in the case of the Southwest) who were internationally recognized as having sovereign rights over that territory. Let's not forget that many (if not most) of the conflicts with the American Indian population was actually started by THEM, not the U.S. government.
 
All conflict between the US and the Native Americans was started by the US. We stole their land. It's silly to think that they would just get over it.

This isn't the focus of the thread I'm sorry. My fault completely.

Back to hating france I'm all for it.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
All conflict between the US and the Native Americans was started by the US. We stole their land. It's silly to think that they would just get over it.

This isn't the focus of the thread I'm sorry. My fault completely.

Back to hating france I'm all for it.

Actually, the U.S. didn't steal it, the British, Spanish, French, Mexicans and Russians did. The U.S. just acquired the land that others stole. :mrgreen:

I don't hate France, just their stupid asinine government.
 
ludahai said:
Actually, the U.S. didn't steal it, the British, Spanish, French, Mexicans and Russians did. The U.S. just acquired the land that others stole. :mrgreen:

I don't hate France, just their stupid asinine government.

So the US is not guilty of the genocide of the Native American people. We British left in 1776, millions of Native Americans dies after that.

With the exception of the Louisania Purchase, the United States imperialized the continent through war and conquest. You even tried to conquer Canada, but we repelled you :lol: , which resulted in us burning down half of the White House in 1812.

To say the US "acquired" the land is just ignoring the facts in favour of patriotism.
 
GarzaUK said:
So the US is not guilty of the genocide of the Native American people. We British left in 1776, millions of Native Americans dies after that.

I didn't say that the U.S. didn't share responsibility, but the responsibility IS shared.

With the exception of the Louisania Purchase, the United States imperialized the continent through war and conquest. You even tried to conquer Canada, but we repelled you :lol: , which resulted in us burning down half of the White House in 1812.

To say the US "acquired" the land is just ignoring the facts in favour of patriotism.

Not entirely true. We gained Florida through a treaty with Spain in 1819, Texas ASKED THREE times to be annexed by the U.S. before the Senate agreed. Oregon was jointly administered by Britain and the U.S. until the two decided to split it and the American Southwest was gained in a war what was started by the Mexicans. Alaska was purchased from the Russians.

As for the War of 1812, it was sparked by Britain's lack of respect for America's rights as a neutral. Britain then tried to carve out the old Northwest Territory and carve a buffer state there. And as for burning Washington, D.C., U.S. forces burned York, then the capital of British Canada.
 
akyron said:
I disagree. You can't take two steps in the USA without bumping into a liberal hippie democrat protesting the persecution of cockroaches or something.
I always wonder why are they in the streets? Why don't they go get a job?

You do not get much of that in a non democratic nation.

You're really funny!

I love how you used "Liberal Hippie Democrat", basically saying that all Democrats are Hippies, all Hippies are Democrats, all Liberals are Democrats, all Democrats are Liberals.

You know why it doesn't happen in a non-democratic nation? They get killed.
 
Arch Enemy said:
You're really funny!

I love how you used "Liberal Hippie Democrat", basically saying that all Democrats are Hippies, all Hippies are Democrats, all Liberals are Democrats, all Democrats are Liberals.

You know why it doesn't happen in a non-democratic nation? They get killed.


That is the point. Like someone said "Free to be insane"!
 
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