For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth[W:548]

[Celebrity]

We should not be trying to stop teens from getting pregnant???? WTF??????????? Of course we should be encouraging them to not get pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's asinine to suggest otherwise.

Do you have control over anyone's sex life but your own?

I totally agree.

I think you've made it clear you see minors as children who should be controlled.

 

[minnie616]

Do you have control over anyone's sex life but your own?



I think you've made it clear you see minors as children who should be controlled.

Please Note*
Never wanted to control minors just hoping minors have the best chance possible for bright and happy futures.
---------
About 77 percent of teen pregnancies are unplanned.
About 40 percent of unplanned pregnancies are aborted.
Less unplanned pregnancies equals fewer abortions and less teen mothers counting on the bio father and or / the state to help with child support payments.

From this link:

Characteristics Associated with Adolescent Childbearing

Numerous individual, family, and community characteristics have been linked to adolescent childbearing. For example, adolescents who are enrolled in school and engaged in learning (including participating in after-school activities, having positive attitudes toward school, and performing well educationally) are less likely than are other adolescents to have or to father a baby.[7]

At the family level, adolescents with mothers who gave birth as teens and/or whose mothers have only a high school degree are more likely to have a baby before age 20 than are teens whose mothers were older at their birth or who attended at least some college. In addition, having lived with both biological parents at age 14 is associated with a lower risk of a teen birth.[8] At the community level, adolescents who live in wealthier neighborhoods with strong levels of employment are less likely to have or to father a baby than are adolescents in neighborhoods in which income and employment opportunities are more limited.[7]

Trends in Teen Pregnancy and Childbearing - The Office of Adolescent Health

 

[EMNofSeattle]

BE AN ABORTION OPPONENT. Since there are no actually-valid reasons to oppose abortion, there can only be hateful, stupid, selfish reasons to oppose abortion.
Hateful: Wanting genetically defective bodies to get born, so that when they eventually develop person-class minds, every single one of those minds will suffer from its body's disabilities for a lifetime.
Stupid: Thinking that the world is not so overpopulated with humans that any tool that doesn't target people, while helping prevent a Malthusian Catastrophe, is not a good thing.
Selfish: Wanting more consumers to get born, to increase Demand and drive up prices for everyone (for the profit of politically conservative business-owners), while simultaneously wanting more workers to get born, to increase competition for jobs and thereby prevent wages from rising (also for the profit of politically conservative business owners).


NOT WHAT ABORTION DOES. No unborn human qualifies as "a being" (a generic person), any more than a rat qualifies as "a being". Sure, the unborn human is human (so is a cuticle cell, or a hydatidiform mole), but that fact ALONE doesn't make it a "being", and therefore it is just a Stupid Lie to call it (or a cuticle cell or a hydatidiform mole) "a human being" (a person that happens to also be a human).

While I do not oppose abortion, this is a dumb reason. Malthusian catastrophe is a myth, it has never happened and never will. and if malthusian catastrophe was a concern then abortion would have to be mandatory, not just an option, there's plenty of legitimate arguments in favor without dragging in a controversial seperate issue.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Who wouldn't consider attaining a higher education and less likely to be on welfare as better than being on welfare and/or having less education?

not nessecarily, in the abstract yes having higher education is better, but in reality not everyone is going to grow up to cure cancer either. I do not nessecarily have a problem with welfare, nor do I denigrate welfare recipients.

 

[Celebrity]

Please Note*
Never wanted to control minors just hoping minors have the best chance possible for bright and happy futures.
---------
About 77 percent of teen pregnancies are unplanned.
About 40 percent of unplanned pregnancies are aborted.
Less unplanned pregnancies equals fewer abortions and less teen mothers counting on the bio father and or / the state to help with child support payments.

From this link:



Trends in Teen Pregnancy and Childbearing - The Office of Adolescent Health

What you are describing requires a level of sophistication which many teens lack. Teens may have the autonomy to make their futures bright and happy, however putting ideas in their head for what you think is best is a mechanism of control by suggestion. The only time when teen pregnancy should be stopped is when the pregnant teen wants to stop, or when the biological father wants to stop being involved, in which case contact with the biological father should be limited to extralegal contact.

It is a good idea to encourage sex education and support teenage mothers. It's not a good idea to stigmatize teen pregnancy and marginalize teens who become pregnant by consensual sex, even if that sex involves a consenting minor. I agree with the premise of this thread because I think that single motherhood is often the case for teens who become parents, but this is only half of the picture. Noncustodial teen fathers also suffer, though there is less data to back up this claim and it is often overshadowed by the biological process of pregnancy.

Incidentally, the abstract shows that both groups exhibit a higher rate of psychiatric disorders:

MAIN RESULTS AND THE ROLE OF CHANCE We found no significant differences between the underage abortion and the childbirth group regarding risks of psychiatric disorders (adjusted odds ratio 0.96 [0.67–1.40]) or suffering from intentional or unintentional poisoning by medications or drugs (1.06 [0.57–1.98]). Compared with those who gave birth, girls who underwent abortion were less likely to achieve only a low educational level (0.41 [95% confidence interval 0.31–0.54]) or to be welfare-dependent (0.31 [0.22–0.45]), but more likely to suffer from injuries (1.51 [1.09–2.10]). Compared with the external control group, both pregnancy groups were disadvantaged already prior to the pregnancy. Psychiatric disorders and risk-taking-related health outcomes, including injury, were increased in the abortion group and in the childbirth group similarly on both sides of the pregnancy.

Is underage abortion associated with adverse outcomes in early adulthood? A longitudinal birth cohort study up to 25 years of age

 

[Scrabaholic]

^^ From your own link:

LIMITATIONS, REASONS FOR CAUTION The retrospective nature of the study remains a limitation. The identification of study subjects in order to collect additional data was not allowed for ethical reasons. Therefore further confounding factors, such as the intentionality of the pregnancy, could not be checked.

WIDER IMPLICATIONS OF THE FINDINGS Previous studies have found that abortion is not harmful to mental health in the majority of adult women. Our study adds to the current understanding in suggesting that this is also the case concerning underage girls. Furthermore, women with a history of underage abortion had better socioeconomic outcomes compared with those who gave birth. These findings can be generalized to settings of high-quality social and health-care services, where abortion is accessible and affordable to all citizens. Social and health-care professionals who care for and counsel underage girls facing unplanned pregnancy should acknowledge this information.

 

[Celebrity]

^^ From your own link:

I'm not sure what you are attempting to show. I did read the cautionary caveat. My link is the source of the OP. The study claims that abortion is not harmful to young women. I do not disagree.

 

[calamity]

(Reuters Health) - Compared to teen mothers, girls who have an abortion before age 18 have no negative effects that carry into early adulthood, a nationwide study in Finland suggests.

Girls who had underage abortions tended to have higher educational attainment and were less likely to be dependent on welfare at age 25 compared to the girls who gave birth, the study team found.

For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth | Reuters

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No surprise here.

That's why I support abortion. In fact, I believe abortion rights are probably the most important female rights we have for that very reason.

That, plus I don't want to deal with a bunch of kids born out of wedlock. Those kids tend to be a disaster long after they come of age.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

While I do not oppose abortion, this is a dumb reason. Malthusian catastrophe is a myth, it has never happened and never will. and if malthusian catastrophe was a concern then abortion would have to be mandatory, not just an option, there's plenty of legitimate arguments in favor without dragging in a controversial seperate issue.

Malthusian Catastrophe can very well happen based on the simple fact that Earth doesn't have infinite resources. Humans are not immune to it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Malthusian Catastrophe can very well happen based on the simple fact that Earth doesn't have infinite resources. Humans are not immune to it.

yes it is physically possible, but anyone who tells you when it will happen and especially someone who says that elective abortion is a force to help prevent it, is full of you-know-what.

 

[FutureIncoming]

While I do not oppose abortion, this is a dumb reason.

YOUR OPINION IS FLAWED. See below

Malthusian catastrophe is a myth, it has never happened

FALSE. Study the history of Easter Island.

and never will.

PROVE IT. Island Earth is simply a bigger Island, than Easter Island. And we are consuming all sorts of resources faster than we are replacing them. Overfishing, for example. Aquifer Depletion, for another. Urban Encroachment Onto Farmland, for a third. And Desertification is another way we are losing farmland. ALL those factors (plus more; if Global Warming melts the ice caps, the oceans will rise 200 feet, and everyone living in coastal cities will want to move inland, and even more farmland will get urbanized), contribute to an increasing probability that humanity is on course to experience a planetary-scale Malthusian Catastrophe. And abortion opponents are actively working to increase that probability even more, whether they know it or not, or admit it or not.

and if malthusian catastrophe was a concern then abortion would have to be mandatory,

THE TRENDS ARE CLEAR. Only the time of the conclusion is unknown. Consider that there was a known timeline with respect to chlorocarbons and the ozone hole --so Lawmakers did do something about it, and now the evidence indicates that the hole is slowing healing. But no one can be so accurate with respect to global resources and population growth --the first isn't known with perfect accuracy, and the second is fickle; the zika virus, for example, may scare a lot of women into holding off on getting pregnant (or staying pregnant) for the next year or two (how much you want to bet a vaccine is being furiously researched?).

not just an option, there's plenty of legitimate arguments in favor without dragging in a controversial seperate issue.

THERE ARE MANY GOOD REASONS TO ALLOW ABORTION; there are not-so-many good reasons to actually go and get one.

 

[Cable]

I'm not sure what you are attempting to show. I did read the cautionary caveat. My link is the source of the OP. The study claims that abortion is not harmful to young women. I do not disagree.

When life is not respected our culture suffers on the whole. When life is taken lightly there are all kinds of ramifications for society. When consequence of choice is minimized we learn the wrong lesson and are worse off for it. Life (truth) won't be cheated.

 

[SheWolf]

By "virtue"of being pregnant a woman can miss enough hours of work to go homeless. I was off work (due to serious medical complications) nearly 6 months. That is JUST because of pregnancy. And I was anticipated to have an "easy" pregnancy and childbirth.

How much time did you need to take off because of pregnancy? How would your boss like you being off 6 months? How about your landlord (etc)?

I already know because of medical history that I would need bed rest. I had a major surgery, then married, and boss fired me citing my marriage and desire to have children. I am in contact with a lawyer right now, but the fact is, I was employed and not even pregnant, but my boss felt threatened by knowing the medical attention and lost production a pregnancy would create.

 

[year2late]

When life is not respected our culture suffers on the whole. When life is taken lightly there are all kinds of ramifications for society. When consequence of choice is minimized we learn the wrong lesson and are worse off for it. Life (truth) won't be cheated.

Would you agree that respect of life is not just concerning a fetus?

 

[Celebrity]

Would you agree that respect of life is not just concerning a fetus?

Yes! I don't go around jerking off onto women and saying "we had intercourse, now you must do what I say." The law is more lenient for women; where life is concerned, men do not use their biological functions in order to control women. Men should not make choices for women and women should not make choices for men. The only person who should make a choice concerning another individual's biology is a family member, i.e. the choice to prepare support in order to nurture their choice. Otherwise people should be free to make choices not concerning another individual's biology.

 

[Cable]

Would you agree that respect of life is not just concerning a fetus?

Yes, all life should be respected equally.

 

[trouble13]

Yes, all life should be respected equally.

I understand what you mean and it is a nice platitude but its not realistic.

Not to be callous but all life is not equal.
What you really mean isbthat all human life has a right to live but even when you narrow it to that you still hit a conflict when two lives are dependant on one of lives dieing for the other to survive. A choice has to be made and your position seems to be that youth is more important. Im not agreeing of disagree but i am pointing out that your not treating them as equals. Your assigning a higher value to one of the lives.

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[JayDubya]

NOT WHAT ABORTION DOES.

Objectively false. A blatantly stupid claim on your part.

 

[Scrabaholic]

When life is not respected our culture suffers on the whole. When life is taken lightly there are all kinds of ramifications for society. When consequence of choice is minimized we learn the wrong lesson and are worse off for it. Life (truth) won't be cheated.

I take it you are vegan?

 

[trouble13]

I take it you are vegan?

Plants are life too


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[year2late]

Yes! I don't go around jerking off onto women and saying "we had intercourse, now you must do what I say." The law is more lenient for women; where life is concerned, men do not use their biological functions in order to control women. Men should not make choices for women and women should not make choices for men. The only person who should make a choice concerning another individual's biology is a family member, i.e. the choice to prepare support in order to nurture their choice. Otherwise people should be free to make choices not concerning another individual's biology.

Nature is less lenient towards women where this issue is concerned. The woman pays the entire biological tab.

The rest is just beating the dead and cremated an buried remains of a horse. Either partner who does not wish to be responsible physically, emotionally or financially for a child should use birth control regardless of what his/her partner is using. And if the woman becomes pregnant anyway, both need to be ready to accept the consequences of THEIR actions.

Can I offer you a shovel to dig up the dead horse?

 

[FutureIncoming]

Objectively false. A blatantly stupid claim on your part.

YOUR MERE CLAIM IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT EVIDENCE. And I provided evidence to support what I wrote (and you quoted). You merely ignored the Objectively Verifiable evidence I presented:

No unborn human qualifies as "a being" (a generic person), any more than a rat qualifies as "a being". Sure, the unborn human is human (so is a cuticle cell, or a hydatidiform mole), but that fact ALONE doesn't make it a "being", and therefore it is just a Stupid Lie to call it (or a cuticle cell or a hydatidiform mole) "a human being" (a person that happens to also be a human).

(which supports my claim that abortion does not kill a being, even it it does kill "human life") --you ignored that data in order to spout your worthless unsupported claim. Therefore, guess which of us has the better argument?

If you want to make the Positive Claim that an unborn human is "a human being", then YOU need to support that positive claim with Objectively Verifiable evidence. And you have no such evidence (dictionaries count as Subjective data ACCORDING TO DICTIONARY EDITORS, not Objective data).

 

[Scrabaholic]

Plants are life too


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Yes, but everyone has to eat something.

 

[trouble13]

Yes, but everyone has to eat something.

My only point is that we do not treat all life as equal


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[Scrabaholic]

My only point is that we do not treat all life as equal


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Oh, I totally agree. We don't even treat all human life as equal, the death penalty is evidence of that. (and I am pro death penalty)