For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth[W:548]

[trouble13]

In my view...since many women who choose abortion are already struggling to care for themselves (or themselves and another child), a better economic status can mean not only security, but safety. Living paycheck in a poor area is a safety concern. Frequently the only way out is to become more stable in a work environment....which can mean college or vocational training.

I am not funny about using the word "economic" or "financial" in terms of outcomes, because the reality is that being able to afford a more stable financial situation is not only good for herself, but good for the taxpayers and children she may have in the future.

I just want to make sure I'm clear on your position. Your saying its a valid reason for a woman to abort for economic reasons. That's deliciously ironic considering the position you've staked out in the other thread about men choosing to do the exact same thing. No shortage of hypocrisy with you.


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[Scrabaholic]

Someone who values life and being a parent more than money and education. Not everyone shares the same values.


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Ironically, many of those most vocal against abortion are also against welfare.

 

[TheGoverness]

Ironically, many of those most vocal against abortion are also against welfare.

And some want to go to war all the time.

 

[trouble13]

Ironically, many of those most vocal against abortion are also against welfare.

I know, i see hypocrissy all around from both sides by many.

It comes from allowing our emotional responses to trimp our principles. Im sure im guilty of it too. I try not to be but im sure i unwittingly fall victim to it as well.

Thats why i come to plaves like this. I like having my biases challenged so i can identify them and hopefully grow as a person.

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[Celebrity]

And some want to go to war all the time.

War is profitable, babies need to grow up to fight wars, and if the babies are good at following orders, then they won't ever be on welfare. Duh, follow the money. :roll:

 

[TheGoverness]

War is profitable, babies need to grow up to fight wars, and if the babies are good at following orders, then they won't ever be on welfare. Duh, follow the money. :roll:

Or if they die, then they won't ever have to be on welfare.

 

[trouble13]

War is profitable, babies need to grow up to fight wars, and if the babies are good at following orders, then they won't ever be on welfare. Duh, follow the money. :roll:

Actually following marching orders is exactly how you end up on welfare. Conformity breeds medocrity

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[year2late]

I just want to make sure I'm clear on your position. Your saying its a valid reason for a woman to abort for economic reasons. That's deliciously ironic considering the position you've staked out in the other thread about men choosing to do the exact same thing. No shortage of hypocrisy with you.


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By "virtue"of being pregnant a woman can miss enough hours of work to go homeless. I was off work (due to serious medical complications) nearly 6 months. That is JUST because of pregnancy. And I was anticipated to have an "easy" pregnancy and childbirth.

How much time did you need to take off because of pregnancy? How would your boss like you being off 6 months? How about your landlord (etc)?

 

[Celebrity]

By "virtue"of being pregnant a woman can miss enough hours of work to go homeless. I was off work (due to serious medical complications) nearly 6 months. That is JUST because of pregnancy. And I was anticipated to have an "easy" pregnancy and childbirth.

How much time did you need to take off because of pregnancy? How would your boss like you being off 6 months? How about your landlord (etc)?

Sounds like you agree with the OP. Teen girls are better off not giving birth, whether or not they have paid medical leave through their employer. At least they won't carry the burden that you did.

 

[year2late]

Sounds like you agree with the OP. Teen girls are better off not giving birth, whether or not they have paid medical leave through their employer. At least they won't carry the burden that you did.

Didn't really say that.

I think it is an individual choice dependent on resources of the individual pregnant woman. Resources can be social, academic, personal, financial, etc

It is not likely that a teen would have access to paid medical leave through an employer. (possible yes, likely, no)

 

[trouble13]

By "virtue"of being pregnant a woman can miss enough hours of work to go homeless. I was off work (due to serious medical complications) nearly 6 months. That is JUST because of pregnancy. And I was anticipated to have an "easy" pregnancy and childbirth.

How much time did you need to take off because of pregnancy? How would your boss like you being off 6 months? How about your landlord (etc)?

Ahhh another of your long list of chauvinistic arguments.

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[GEIxBattleRifle]

............

We can have a discussion about how to decrease abortion, how to make humans "more wanted" by other humans etc just as long as you realize that throwing questions like that out there doesn't rebuttal arguments. That's something you'll have to do if you want to keep abortion legal.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Ahhh another of your long list of chauvinistic arguments.

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Another 250+ page thread incoming.

 

[trouble13]

Another 250+ page thread incoming.

Lol

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[prometeus]

"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." (Mother Teresa)

As opposed to letting people die horribly suffering and offering prayers instead of medical care? Is that not also moral bankruptcy?

 

[prometeus]

And this is this is your nut to crack.

Make prochoicers believe this

is a not child, but a potential person.

Clearly, YMMV.

With philosophical differences, you can really only apply your personal philosophy to yourself.

That is why I want pragmatism in these abortion discussions.

How do you better prevent unwanted pregnancy?

How can you turn an unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one?

Calling people killers and murderers may make an individual feel a sense of satisfaction and self importance...but it does absolutely nothing to decrease abortions.

Do you think saying that people are child killers helps decrease abortions?

So well said. Thank you.

 

[DA60]

As I said before...if there is brain activity, the child is a child (until when sentience is attained is scientifically AND legally determined) and to abort him/her should be VERY illegal - manslaughter at the minimum.

If there is no brain activity, it is a fetus, not a child, and it should be legal.


That is all that matters to me in terms of abortions.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

In the US only about 1 percent of the women give their newborn up for adoption.
The rest choose to keep their newborns.

That's nice. But my point was that the study is misleading if it doesn't track a reasonable sample of that one percent.

 

[trouble13]

I personally am not a fan of the concept of feticide to begin with. It just seems like the state looking for a way to pile on charges for bad guys but if thats the standard they set it should be applied to everyone including mothers.

Im not a fan of the courts selectively applying the law

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[trouble13]

That's nice. But my point was that the study is misleading if it doesn't track a reasonable sample of that one percent.

Of course its missleading. They went into it trying to validate their bias. I think they are mixing up cause and correlation as well.

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[minnie616]

That's nice. But my point was that the study is misleading if it doesn't track a reasonable sample of that one percent.

There was nothing in the study/article that excluded teens who gave up their newborn up for adoption after the birth of the child.

(Reuters Health) - Compared to teen mothers, girls who have an abortion before age 18 have no negative effects that carry into early adulthood, a nationwide study in Finland suggests.

Girls who had underage abortions tended to have higher educational attainment and were less likely to be dependent on welfare at age 25 compared to the girls who gave birth, the study team found.

For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth | Reuters

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

As I said before...if there is brain activity, the child is a child (until when sentience is attained is scientifically AND legally determined) and to abort him/her should be VERY illegal - manslaughter at the minimum.

If there is no brain activity, it is a fetus, not a child, and it should be legal.


That is all that matters to me in terms of abortions.

Yeah yeah. We all know your bare minimum requirements for personhood which can include the entire animal kingdom since they have brain activity and sentience also.

 

[Celebrity]

There was nothing in the study/article that excluded teens who gave up their newborn up for adoption after the birth of the child.



For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth | Reuters

Here ya go:
http://www.teenshelter.org/Jims_Statistics_on_Teenage_Pregnancy_11-11-06.pdf

Less than three percent of teens who give birth are willing to relinquish their child for adoption. This decision is not at all in the child’s best interests since teen mothers are almost always forced to raise their children in impoverished, single-parent homes.

Some research suggests that teen fathers, the other victims of teen pregnancy, have lower levels of education and, in turn, 10-15% lower annual earnings than teens that do not father children.

The annual cost to taxpayers for teen births in California, in 2001, was estimated to be $1.5 billion. The total cost to California society, which includes total losses in earnings and privately paid medical costs, was estimated to be $3.3 billion per year.

We should not be trying to stop teens from getting pregnant, or forcing abortions on them. We should implement a system that addresses the reality of teen pregnancy without punishing young men and women with child support orders. If that means not ignoring the other 97% who don't put their baby up for adoption, then so be it.

minnie, you are grasping at straws once again.

From the source:

Very little of the literature addresses the behavior and rights of fathers.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/s_place.pdf

 

[Scrabaholic]

We should not be trying to stop teens from getting pregnant, or forcing abortions on them. We should implement a system that addresses the reality of teen pregnancy without punishing young men and women with child support orders. If that means not ignoring the other 97% who don't put their baby up for adoption, then so be it.

We should not be trying to stop teens from getting pregnant???? WTF??????????? Of course we should be encouraging them to not get pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's asinine to suggest otherwise.

 

[minnie616]

We should not be trying to stop teens from getting pregnant???? WTF??????????? Of course we should be encouraging them to not get pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's asinine to suggest otherwise.

I totally agree.