Florida OKs school materials aimed at making students conservatives

[jaypatriot]

I'm from the same state as that speaker, NC. I have kids in the schools here. I know that, as a parent, I am only so capable of teaching my children things. I know that as a parent, even with my husband and others, we still won't be able to teach our children as much as they can learn at school. I also know that not all parents are as capable as we are of teaching their children even the basics.

Look at Finland and how they teach their kids. They are considered one of the top education countries in the world.

10 reasons why Finland's education system is the best in the world | World Economic Forum

Finland has 5.7 million people, practically all white and speaking the same language. No racial problems.
It's good to look at other countries to see how their children are doing in school.
But to compare their school system to ours with so many failing public schools and so many dropouts failing to graduate, is really a fruitless task.
I doubt that Finland's public school system is controlled by a teachers union which feeds its membership dues into a political party that gives the unions the kinds of laws that benefits the unions.

The recommendations in the article are good ones.
We have about 49 million students in public schools.
That is eight times the population of Finland.

 

[roguenuke]

Finland has 5.7 million people, practically all white and speaking the same language. No racial problems.
It's good to look at other countries to see how their children are doing in school.
But to compare their school system to ours with so many failing public schools and so many dropouts failing to graduate, is really a fruitless task.
I doubt that Finland's public school system is controlled by a teachers union which feeds its membership dues into a political party that gives the unions the kinds of laws that benefits the unions.

The recommendations in the article are good ones.
We have about 49 million students in public schools.
That is eight times the population of Finland.

Our school systems are broken up into much smaller school systems than Finland's are. But nothing about their approach regarding mental health, empathy, teaching full person cannot be applied to our schools. You are making excuses.

A main focus of their education system is full person, looking at the student's needs. This focus is not something that cannot be done in our schools, all of them. How we do that may vary to some degree, but none of those things you mentioned hinders this from happening. Yet many conservatives claim that it shouldn't happen. That schools shouldn't focus on mental health, empathy, treating students as individuals rather than part of a machine. And the woman you posted was arguing just that, that schools shouldn't concern themselves with mental and emotional wellbeing, health of students. Shouldn't worry about empathy and how students are being treated at home or at school. Should only worry about educating them to become productive members of society, rather than simply providing them with a well rounded education, including of self and mental wellbeing.

 

[bomberfox]

Even John Birchers would be embarrassed with what has happened with the right.

I dunno. They were the guys who called Eisenhower a secret communist sympathizer for daring to be friendly with Zhukov and beating their preferred candidate despite putting raving lunatics like the Dulles brothers in high office.

 

[mrjurrs]

But you forget she is also a concerned mother who doesn't want her child indoctrinated with bullshit WOKE LGBTQ ideology when the purpose of an education is to prepare children for adulthood.

And just what is the purpose of an education directed at young people?
Learning about proper personal pronouns?
Discussing sexual identity and transgender options for children in grade school?

You don't think all of the things you listed will be a part of the child's future?
News flash! Grade school kids are talking about sexual identity in grade school and some are doing more than talking.
"Middle school youth are engaging in sexual intercourse as early as age 12, according to a new study." 12 years old can be a sixth grader.

Middle School Youth As Young As 12 Engaging In Risky Sexual Activity

Middle school youth are engaging in sexual intercourse as early as age 12, according to a new study. Researchers examined sexual risk behaviors among middle school students in a large southeastern US urban public school district.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[jaypatriot]

You don't think all of the things you listed will be a part of the child's future?
News flash! Grade school kids are talking about sexual identity in grade school and some are doing more than talking.
"Middle school youth are engaging in sexual intercourse as early as age 12, according to a new study." 12 years old can be a sixth grader.

Middle School Youth As Young As 12 Engaging In Risky Sexual Activity

Middle school youth are engaging in sexual intercourse as early as age 12, according to a new study. Researchers examined sexual risk behaviors among middle school students in a large southeastern US urban public school district.

www.sciencedaily.com

So where should the parents be in all of this?
Relying on schools to deal with the kid's confusion?
Of course all of those things are in the child's future.
Where else would it be?
And why did I never hear getting my teachers or school psychologists getting involved with any of this?
Why was this never an issue fifty years ago?
What makes LGBTQ issues so important now?

 

[jaypatriot]

Our school systems are broken up into much smaller school systems than Finland's are. But nothing about their approach regarding mental health, empathy, teaching full person cannot be applied to our schools. You are making excuses.

A main focus of their education system is full person, looking at the student's needs. This focus is not something that cannot be done in our schools, all of them. How we do that may vary to some degree, but none of those things you mentioned hinders this from happening. Yet many conservatives claim that it shouldn't happen. That schools shouldn't focus on mental health, empathy, treating students as individuals rather than part of a machine. And the woman you posted was arguing just that, that schools shouldn't concern themselves with mental and emotional wellbeing, health of students. Shouldn't worry about empathy and how students are being treated at home or at school. Should only worry about educating them to become productive members of society, rather than simply providing them with a well rounded education, including of self and mental wellbeing.

So, you seem to know what schools or school districts should do to accommodate this seemingly new challenge we have.
With over 13 thousand school districts in this country why haven't we adopted those outstanding approaches you are touting in Finland?
With Finland's population 1/50th of our population, do you think any of our school districts smart enough to adopt some of those approaches Finland is using?
I am not hopeful as long as teachers unions and Democrat led cities and states are exercising political control over school districts, nothing will change because parents are not involved enough to make significant changes.
How do you think Glenn Youngkin became governor of Virginia?
He defied the teachers unions and got the parents behind him.





"During the 2020-2021 school year, there were 13,187 public school districts. These school districts enrolled 47,755,349 students across all 50 states and the District of Columbia."

 

[mrjurrs]

So where should the parents be in all of this?
Relying on schools to deal with the kid's confusion?
Of course all of those things are in the child's future.
Where else would it be?
And why did I never hear getting my teachers or school psychologists getting involved with any of this?
Why was this never an issue fifty years ago?
What makes LGBTQ issues so important now?

Parents should be right in the middle of all of this. If they are not, the parents are likely a part of the problem.
Schools deal with students confusion every day.
The point of my statement was to point out that schools, by definition, help to prepare students for the world outside of school.
50 years ago gender was biological sex, nothing more.
You do your best with what you know. When you wake to new information, you try to do better. Unlike 50 years ago, LGBTQ is a part of our society today.

 

[roguenuke]

So, you seem to know what schools or school districts should do to accommodate this seemingly new challenge we have.
With over 13 thousand school districts in this country why haven't we adopted those outstanding approaches you are touting in Finland?
With Finland's population 1/50th of our population, do you think any of our school districts smart enough to adopt some of those approaches Finland is using?
I am not hopeful as long as teachers unions and Democrat led cities and states are exercising political control over school districts, nothing will change because parents are not involved enough to make significant changes.
How do you think Glenn Youngkin became governor of Virginia?
He defied the teachers unions and got the parents behind him.





"During the 2020-2021 school year, there were 13,187 public school districts. These school districts enrolled 47,755,349 students across all 50 states and the District of Columbia."

It's not a new challenge at all. It was always there, but those schools ignored it, just did weird things to address it. Sometimes they'd just encourage those who weren't doing well to just drop out or sending them to "alternative schools".

Massachusetts ranks rather high amongst our schools (top or next to top with New Jersey). They have a mental health consortium for their schools.

MASMHC – Massachusetts School Mental Health Consortium

New Jersey, another at the top, putting in place mental health services.

https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/08/nj-project-enhancing-school-mental-health-services/

Youngkin became governor because of idiotic promises to naive and stupid voters.

My kids' schools make huge considerations for mental health. They could do a lot better, but don't do nearly as bad as some who just ignore it.

We are 753rd out of 10,700+ school districts. That's not bad. Top 10% of school systems.

And looky here:

Wake County schools work to address student mental health despite staffing gaps

Wake school leaders are coming together to focus on strategies for mental health support for students in the new year.

www.wral.com

 

[jaypatriot]

It's not a new challenge at all. It was always there, but those schools ignored it, just did weird things to address it. Sometimes they'd just encourage those who weren't doing well to just drop out or sending them to "alternative schools".

Massachusetts ranks rather high amongst our schools (top or next to top with New Jersey). They have a mental health consortium for their schools.

MASMHC – Massachusetts School Mental Health Consortium

New Jersey, another at the top, putting in place mental health services.

https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/08/nj-project-enhancing-school-mental-health-services/

Youngkin became governor because of idiotic promises to naive and stupid voters.

My kids' schools make huge considerations for mental health. They could do a lot better, but don't do nearly as bad as some who just ignore it.

We are 753rd out of 10,700+ school districts. That's not bad. Top 10% of school systems.

And looky here:

Wake County schools work to address student mental health despite staffing gaps

Wake school leaders are coming together to focus on strategies for mental health support for students in the new year.

www.wral.com

If you are a parent of children in school today, it is no wonder why you are concerned about students' mental health.
My daughter made it through her teenage years because she was lucky in the 1980s. She never got pregnant, overdosed on drugs, or went to jail for anything. Today, with all of the drugs, the carefree attitude toward sex, the bullying, and the obsession with the Internet and social media sites, it is no wonder parents struggle to stay on top of what is going on in middle schools and high schools.
It is rare for me to find a teenager in school today that I would admire and respect. And I hope for their sake and their parents' sake they make it through to adulthood safely and without a lot of nasty emotional baggage.

 

[jaypatriot]

Parents should be right in the middle of all of this. If they are not, the parents are likely a part of the problem.
Schools deal with students confusion every day.
The point of my statement was to point out that schools, by definition, help to prepare students for the world outside of school.
50 years ago gender was biological sex, nothing more.
You do your best with what you know. When you wake to new information, you try to do better. Unlike 50 years ago, LGBTQ is a part of our society today.

Why is LGBTQ+ whatever a part of our society today?
Has there been an explosion of queers who now wished to be noticed and accommodated? What has changed?
I praise my daughter for being adamant about my granddaughter attending a Catholic grade school and high school.

 

[roguenuke]

If you are a parent of children in school today, it is no wonder why you are concerned about students' mental health.
My daughter made it through her teenage years because she was lucky in the 1980s. She never got pregnant, overdosed on drugs, or went to jail for anything. Today, with all of the drugs, the carefree attitude toward sex, the bullying, and the obsession with the Internet and social media sites, it is no wonder parents struggle to stay on top of what is going on in middle schools and high schools.
It is rare for me to find a teenager in school today that I would admire and respect. And I hope for their sake and their parents' sake they make it through to adulthood safely and without a lot of nasty emotional baggage.

You have got to be kidding me. My cousin was pregnant twice in high school in the mid 90s. Teen pregnancy rates have been dropping for years now, lower now than they were in the 1980s. Bullying was rampant in the 1980s and 90s, and is only now being addressed with proper teaching, such as teaching empathy early. It is those groups like M4L that want to remove empathy from education and basically say things like "parents can pay for therapy when their kids are bullied".

Emotional problems and even problems related to harassment and other issues were ignored in the past, not addressed. I'm really happy my kids are in school today rather than when I was. My son on the spectrum is getting amazing services to address multiple issues, working with him rather than ignoring him or forcing him to have to be educated in special classrooms hidden from everyone else or worse, sent to a special school. My oldest is a genius.

 

[roguenuke]

Why is LGBTQ+ whatever a part of our society today?
Has there been an explosion of queers who now wished to be noticed and accommodated? What has changed?
I praise my daughter for being adamant about my granddaughter attending a Catholic grade school and high school.

It's always actually been part of society. I debated in favor of same sex marriage in high school. The only thing that changed is acceptance, recognition that they shouldn't have to hide their relationships because of religious bigotry.

 

[mrjurrs]

Why is LGBTQ+ whatever a part of our society today?
Has there been an explosion of queers who now wished to be noticed and accommodated? What has changed?
I praise my daughter for being adamant about my granddaughter attending a Catholic grade school and high school.

They have always been a part of our culture. They have been empowered to come out and demand the rights they deserve. That's a good thing.

Catholic school? And you're worried about grooming?

 

[jaypatriot]

They have always been a part of our culture. They have been empowered to come out and demand the rights they deserve. That's a good thing.

Catholic school? And you're worried about grooming?

You're grasping at an old narrative. That of priests who are bad.

What is empowering an LGBTQ community member to come out? We're all citizens with equal rights?
And what does demanding rights mean?
Demanding what?
Every citizen is protected by the same laws and the same Constitution? Do we need more laws for LGBTQ people?

 

[jaypatriot]

It's always actually been part of society. I debated in favor of same sex marriage in high school. The only thing that changed is acceptance, recognition that they shouldn't have to hide their relationships because of religious bigotry.

That sounds like complaining about "systemic racism" as the go-to complaint. If you are black then there is "systemic racism".
If you are gay then everyone else is homophobic.
Where is there religious bigotry.? Are we going through a modern-day Inquisition?

 

[roguenuke]

You're grasping at an old narrative. That of priests who are bad.

What is empowering an LGBTQ community member to come out? We're all citizens with equal rights?
And what does demanding rights mean?
Demanding what?
Every citizen is protected by the same laws and the same Constitution? Do we need more laws for LGBTQ people?

They need laws that protect them and less laws that make them feel as if being them is a problem, marginalizing their existence, such as laws that make it illegal to talk about who they are, be who they are openly. Less push to get them fired simply for being who they are, different.

 

[roguenuke]

That sounds like complaining about "systemic racism" as the go-to complaint. If you are black then there is "systemic racism".
If you are gay then everyone else is homophobic.
Where is there religious bigotry.? Are we going through a modern-day Inquisition?

Are you really going to attempt to claim that religious people do not persecute and condemn those who are LGBTQ? Really?

 

[mrjurrs]

You're grasping at an old narrative. That of priests who are bad.

What is empowering an LGBTQ community member to come out? We're all citizens with equal rights?
And what does demanding rights mean?
Demanding what?
Every citizen is protected by the same laws and the same Constitution? Do we need more laws for LGBTQ people?

So Catholics have solved their issues? They haven't and it's not just priests. On a side note, when we were in hs, all the guys wanted to date the girls from the Catholic HS. Care to guess why?

You believe we all have equal rights? tff

The Supreme Court rules for a designer who doesn't want to make wedding websites for gay couples

The Supreme Court’s conservative majority ruled a Christian graphic artist who wants to design wedding websites can refuse to work with gay couples, a setback for LGBTQ+ people and another win for religious plaintiffs.

apnews.com

Demanding rights means looking for the rights that heterosexuals already have. If we need specific laws to protect the safety of and enforce the rights of a protected group, then yes we need more laws for the LGBTQ community.
Are you claiming that the LGBTQ community is treated the same as the heterosexuals among us legally? You're wrong.
"Under U.S. law, religious organizations are basically exempt from protections baked into the Civil Rights Act. Sometimes called the “ministerial exception,” it bars ministers from suing for discrimination."

Despite Supreme Court ruling, you can still get fired for being gay, transgender | Webb

Under U.S. law, religious organizations are basically exempt from protections baked into the Civil Rights Act.

www.courierpress.com

 

[jaypatriot]

So Catholics have solved their issues? They haven't and it's not just priests. On a side note, when we were in hs, all the guys wanted to date the girls from the Catholic HS. Care to guess why?

You believe we all have equal rights? tff

The Supreme Court rules for a designer who doesn't want to make wedding websites for gay couples

The Supreme Court’s conservative majority ruled a Christian graphic artist who wants to design wedding websites can refuse to work with gay couples, a setback for LGBTQ+ people and another win for religious plaintiffs.

apnews.com

Demanding rights means looking for the rights that heterosexuals already have. If we need specific laws to protect the safety of and enforce the rights of a protected group, then yes we need more laws for the LGBTQ community.
Are you claiming that the LGBTQ community is treated the same as the heterosexuals among us legally? You're wrong.
"Under U.S. law, religious organizations are basically exempt from protections baked into the Civil Rights Act. Sometimes called the “ministerial exception,” it bars ministers from suing for discrimination."

Despite Supreme Court ruling, you can still get fired for being gay, transgender | Webb

Under U.S. law, religious organizations are basically exempt from protections baked into the Civil Rights Act.

www.courierpress.com

I am not gay and I am not current on which states discriminate against members of the LGBTQ community.
I only know what I read.
So what is the LGBTQ community to ensure "the LGBTQ community is treated the same as the heterosexuals among us legally?" Do you know? Do you care?

About 20 states have anti-discrimination laws specifically protecting L.G.B.T.Q. people.​

The laws explicitly protect people from being refused services or otherwise discriminated against in public because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
By Ruth Graham

• June 30, 2023

Federal law protects Americans from being discriminated against in public places like retail stores on the basis of disability and “race, color, religion or national origin.”
Many states go further. Colorado is one of about 20 states, along with the District of Columbia, that have laws explicitly protecting people from being refused services or otherwise discriminated against in public because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. Additionally, several states interpret existing laws against sex discrimination to apply to bias relating to sexual orientation and gender identity, even though they do not have laws explicitly forbidding such discrimination.
In states that do not offer protections to gay and transgender people on those grounds, municipal laws cover many residents.

The Human Rights Campaign, an L.G.B.T.Q. advocacy organization, joined a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that an exemption in the case decided on Friday would undermine state and federal public-accommodation laws.

About 20 states have anti-discrimination laws specifically protecting L.G.B.T.Q. people. (Published 2023)

The laws explicitly protect people from being refused services or otherwise discriminated against in public because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

www.nytimes.com

 

[jaypatriot]

Are you really going to attempt to claim that religious people do not persecute and condemn those who are LGBTQ? Really?

In any religious group there can be bigots who don't care for homosexuals.
In any white group there can be bigots who don't like blacks.
What's your point? Is there an epidemic of gay people being harassed by homophobes?
If you have evidence there is a trend I should be aware of please give me a reference instead of stating the obvious about ignorant, bigoted people not caring members of an LGBTQ group.

 

[jaypatriot]

They have always been a part of our culture. They have been empowered to come out and demand the rights they deserve. That's a good thing.

Catholic school? And you're worried about grooming?

I worry about people lacking common sense who would paint an entire group as guilty of "grooming" = whatever that means.

 

[roguenuke]

In any religious group there can be bigots who don't care for homosexuals.
In any white group there can be bigots who don't like blacks.
What's your point? Is there an epidemic of gay people being harassed by homophobes?
If you have evidence there is a trend I should be aware of please give me a reference instead of stating the obvious about ignorant, bigoted people not caring members of an LGBTQ group.

No. You have some religions or denominations/sects of religions that state their religion, their beliefs are against LGBTQ+ people. I have a son who is LGBTQ+ and in HS. They are passing laws that could require teachers to "out" him to me and/or his father, regardless of our knowledge or beliefs about him, simply for talking about it to anyone at school, including perhaps because he's being harassed, bullied by others.

Do you think its okay for anyone at a school to call kids names based on belief or even their being LGBTQ+? To berate them using gender based derogatory comments, such as calling the entire football team "ladies" to get them work harder?

Yes, there absolutely is an "epidemic" of homophobes and transphobes harassing LGBTQ+ people. This is happening. A woman was just killed for simply defending her own flag flying on her property in support of LGBTQ people. A person was just fired for simply being nonbinary as a school teacher. Nothing else. Group found out only that the person identified as nonbinary, and got that person fired days before school started.

 

[jaypatriot]

No. You have some religions or denominations/sects of religions that state their religion, their beliefs are against LGBTQ+ people. I have a son who is LGBTQ+ and in HS. They are passing laws that could require teachers to "out" him to me and/or his father, regardless of our knowledge or beliefs about him, simply for talking about it to anyone at school, including perhaps because he's being harassed, bullied by others.

Do you think its okay for anyone at a school to call kids names based on belief or even their being LGBTQ+? To berate them using gender based derogatory comments, such as calling the entire football team "ladies" to get them work harder?

Yes, there absolutely is an "epidemic" of homophobes and transphobes harassing LGBTQ+ people. This is happening. A woman was just killed for simply defending her own flag flying on her property in support of LGBTQ people. A person was just fired for simply being nonbinary as a school teacher. Nothing else. Group found out only that the person identified as nonbinary, and got that person fired days before school started.

Yes, teenagers are cruel, bigoted, and some are heartless when it comes to harassing others because of their sexual orientation.
It really makes me wonder why gay people want to announce their 'gayness' in such an environment as high school.
That's like Jews in Nazi Germany knowing their lives were in danger and did not do enough to hide their Jewishness.
Looking back on my high school days, I am ashamed of some of the things I said and did in a school that was predominantly Jewish.

 

[roguenuke]

Yes, teenagers are cruel, bigoted, and some are heartless when it comes to harassing others because of their sexual orientation.
It really makes me wonder why gay people want to announce their 'gayness' in such an environment as high school.
That's like Jews in Nazi Germany knowing their lives were in danger and did not do enough to hide their Jewishness.
Looking back on my high school days, I am ashamed of some of the things I said and did in a school that was predominantly Jewish.

Teenagers are not the only ones who are cruel, and are in fact less cruel than many adults. I've seen about as many examples of adults using gendered language to shame teen boys.

Did you just say that Jews should have simply hid themselves better rather than us, those who are in better position to fight fascists and radical religious beliefs, standing up to fight back against those trying to oppress others?

People deserve to be able to be who they are, do the same things others can do without facing discrimination, particularly discrimination that is being mandated by state laws.

 

[jaypatriot]

Teenagers are not the only ones who are cruel, and are in fact less cruel than many adults. I've seen about as many examples of adults using gendered language to shame teen boys.

Did you just say that Jews should have simply hid themselves better rather than us, those who are in better position to fight fascists and radical religious beliefs, standing up to fight back against those trying to oppress others?

People deserve to be able to be who they are, do the same things others can do without facing discrimination, particularly discrimination that is being mandated by state laws.

I wrote: "That's like Jews in Nazi Germany knowing their lives were in danger and did not do enough to hide their Jewishness."

If your son in high school was threatened for his gayness the way Jews in Nazi Germany were threatened for their religion, your attitude toward being in a "better position to fight fascists and radical religious beliefs, standing up to fight back against those trying to oppress others" would be vastly different.
Kids in high school are not prone to killing gays or shipping them off to be exterminated.