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Flat Wages for the middle and working class - what to do?

And the RINO's fight back by mislabeling their critics "FAR RIGHT."

The RINO's are for business as usual in a city of failed policies

RINO's want to work with democrats to maintain the same path to the bottom that we have been on since the baby boomers took of the governemt

I was just responding to you telling me that by me not blindly towing the party line that it hurts the right to which I belong and yet the "far right" does the very same thing, blasting RINO's and thereby hurting the right to which they belong.
 
No, healthcare and education as pushed by most dems, benefit everyone, including the wealthy.
The taxes typically associated with paying for this, should largely target the ultra-wealthy.

Take your pick, either we have unions to counter the power of capitalism, or we have progressive taxes that get spent on *everyone in meaningful ways*. Are taxes on the ultra-wealthy are far too low, and everyone that sits down and discusses it would likely agree if they were not partisan about it.

There is no other alternative, it's why no other prosperous nation on earth has some mystical alternative approach.

We don't need to counter the power of capitalism. It has made us the richest country on the planet with the largest economy on the planet. We wouldn't have the largest economy if the 90% were paupers, as the left tries to make everyone believe.
 
Again. I'm not asking you where you think MY ratio is at. What happens in your mind when some person (besides me and those other dishonest posters) is at 70/30 or 50/50? What box do you put them in then?

I just want the far left to admit to who the are and the far right to admit to who they are.
 
Common sense dictates that we are WAY overspending on our military

And you you lefties want to take away from the military and give to the poor, keeping us at our 20 trillion dollar national debt. That's what I object to. The left's solutions to everything is to spend more money, or to take one trillion from the military and then turn around and spend that one trillion all over again, leaving us with a 20 trillion dollar national debt. It's never about cutting total spending, ever. How about cutting defense spending and cutting entitlement spending? I didn't think so.
 
Really? Why?

I'll never really be able to explain this to lefties who are basically anti-war. Do you really want me to try? I personally think it is a waste of time because you won't accept my answer anyway.
 
I'll never really be able to explain this to lefties who are basically anti-war. Do you really want me to try? I personally think it is a waste of time because you won't accept my answer anyway.

Good to know you are pro war.....when do you ship out?
 
I was just responding to you telling me that by me not blindly towing the party line that it hurts the right to which I belong and yet the "far right" does the very same thing, blasting RINO's and thereby hurting the right to which they belong.

The problem with RINO's is that they stand for nothing.

They claim to be partisans with an identifiable policy and ideology when the run for office and are elected by republicans

But when they get to washington or a few years afterward they are vitually undistinguishable from the democrats.

They are for sale to the highest bidder which in the case of RINO's usually means the Chamber of Commerce
 
I don't know why I bother.

I know that you are just trying to trick me into saying that you can't label anyone because they are all different. Not going to let you do that. A lefty is a lefty and a righty is a righty. People in the middle are in the middle, whether it is 70/30, 65/35, 55/45, or whatever. Someone who rattles off a long list of liberal ideas is a lefty and someone who rattles off a long list of conservative ideas is a conservative. You seem to admit that you are a lefty and that some of the others I was posting with are also lefties. I respect people who own up to who they are, even if I disagree with them but someone who rattles off a bunch of liberal ideas and then denies they are a liberal, they are a person, is being dishonest as to who they are and are misrepresenting themselves. There are many here on DP who are lefties, many who are righties, and many who are obviously centrists and moderates. That's just the way it is. One should not be offended to be called a lefty when they are indeed a lefty and vice versa.
 
I know that you are just trying to trick me into saying that you can't label anyone because they are all different. Not going to let you do that. A lefty is a lefty and a righty is a righty. People in the middle are in the middle, whether it is 70/30, 65/35, 55/45, or whatever. Someone who rattles off a long list of liberal ideas is a lefty and someone who rattles off a long list of conservative ideas is a conservative. You seem to admit that you are a lefty and that some of the others I was posting with are also lefties. I respect people who own up to who they are, even if I disagree with them but someone who rattles off a bunch of liberal ideas and then denies they are a liberal, they are a person, is being dishonest as to who they are and are misrepresenting themselves. There are many here on DP who are lefties, many who are righties, and many who are obviously centrists and moderates. That's just the way it is. One should not be offended to be called a lefty when they are indeed a lefty and vice versa.

Boxes are very important. Everyone must be in a box!
 
Good to know you are pro war.....when do you ship out?

I'm curious how old you are. I get the impression that you are young and just listen to liberal talking points. When I was young I was a Democrat and anti-war but after I matured I realized war is a necessary evil. Hitler had to be stopped. ISIS has to be stopped. North Korea has to be stopped. Iran had to be stopped. Both Russia an China need to be stopped. Now I puke whenever I see a coexist bumper sticker because it shows how naive and stupid some people are. I'd like to see these people drive their car through ISIS territory with their coexist bumper sticker and stop to shake hands, hug, and show an ISIS fighter some love and see what happens to them. Coexist only works when everyone else feels the same way and that is not reality.
 
The problem with RINO's is that they stand for nothing.

They claim to be partisans with an identifiable policy and ideology when the run for office and are elected by republicans

But when they get to washington or a few years afterward they are vitually undistinguishable from the democrats.

They are for sale to the highest bidder which in the case of RINO's usually means the Chamber of Commerce

Again, I was pointing to the hypocrisy of you telling me that I was hurting my own party when the "far right" hurt their own party. You guys would rather lose to the Democrats than to form an alliance with RINO's.
 
Again, I was pointing to the hypocrisy of you telling me that I was hurting my own party when the "far right" hurt their own party. You guys would rather lose to the Democrats than to form an alliance with RINO's.

What bothers me is that the republicans in Washington who label themselves as moderates would rather lose to the democrats than win with trump

They voted 50 times to repeal and replace obamacare when obama was in office and now the same republican congress cannot vote for the replacement when trump is sitting there waithing to sign it

They are not bold and not driven toward change but merely continuation of the business as usual policies that they were elected to change
 
Boxes are very important. Everyone must be in a box!

The thing is, if you are in the left box, it is dishonest to claim that you are not in the box. It's not the case of you being in the middle because you are not. You spout off a long list of liberal ideals and then claim you are not a lefty, you are a person who doesn't want to be labeled. As I said, several of you guys seem to find it insulting to be labeled lefties, even though you actually are lefties and yet the right does not find it insulting at all to be labeled righties. It would be different if you believed in several liberal policies and several conservative policies. You have rattled off about 20 liberal things you believe in and only 3 conservative policies you believe in. Please list all of the Republicans you have voted for over the last ten years. I'm betting it is zero, and yet you don't want to be labeled a lefty. You are who you are and I really don't understand why you are so embarrassed to admit it.
 
What bothers me is that the republicans in Washington who label themselves as moderates would rather lose to the democrats than win with trump

They voted 50 times to repeal and replace obamacare when obama was in office and now the same republican congress cannot vote for the replacement when trump is sitting there waithing to sign it

They are not bold and not driven toward change but merely continuation of the business as usual policies that they were elected to change

Your eyes are skewed by extreme partisanship. We could very easily repeal and replace Obamacare if it wasn't for the far right. You attack the moderates for not wanting to join you while at the same time refusing to join them in repealing and replacing it. That's the hypocrisy. It's either your way or the highway.
 
Your eyes are skewed by extreme partisanship. We could very easily repeal and replace Obamacare if it wasn't for the far right. You attack the moderates for not wanting to join you while at the same time refusing to join them in repealing and replacing it. That's the hypocrisy. It's either your way or the highway.

Susan Collins is a far left "moderate" republican

Her and rand paul are the last known holdouts in the senate

But in the house defense bill moderates inserted money for far left climate change and sex change that does not improve national defense
 
The ability of the unsubstantial people to gather and unite had to be squashed.
Or was doing more harm then good and lost it support

Go back and look at the 1930's and the aftermath of the depression, the public certainly "got it" then.
Oh those 1930s full of rational people, nothing every happen bad in that time period *cough* WWII *cough*

Our version of capitalism is cancerous; growth for the sake of growth until the host is destroyed.
As a man cautious of the perpetual growth curve you almost had me until you jump off the deep end and praise poverty and an of end of our innovation fountainhead. We can find a balance and capitalism is apart of that evolution. A free market of voluntary transactions works better for innovation and freedom than other other system tried. We need to build from our progress no doubt as the earth is a living ecosystem that will not accept perpetual growth, but you want to take it out at the knees for its flaws. No!

What we call capitalism is in reality colonialism and wealth extraction, same as it ever was.
Umm, well it seem to raise nations out of poverty at a much faster rate than that previous system. So you may what to clarify your meaning? Do you feel these capitalist gain aren’t being shared globally?

The goal of any capitalist corporation is to force labor costs as close to zero as is legally, or illegally if you can get away with it, as possible.
Umm, okay first we have free labour its call volunteering and you can get people to do it to a point than their needs for things like food and shelter and healthcare tend to come in and you have a choice. Help them or lose your workers.

You act like slavery is a profitable business model. You can certainly gain wealth from it by lower labour costs to a point but your productive sucks(draining in other ways), you constantly risk a revolt(devastating to production), you have to maintain the social system which is resistant to a natural state (costly). Just to name a few. So today you see most of it in what Oil Wealth Nations or with traffickers always exploiting economic migrants in short term ventures. You really think those are the bustling competitors compared to our system here in America?

It bad business move used by desperately uncompetitive actors. The market is our main defence not the main driver of slavery.

Care to speak to the value question. CEO effect market capitalization in the billions where as worker generally only bring in a small fraction of revenue higher than their wages. It called a loss verse a raise in value and it changes based on skill, availability and impact. Why not side with the neutral explanation for the difference rather than some sinister force you have to explain and define?

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expense for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the arostocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses
I am with you there and that is exasperated by regulation and government control.

Capital is colonial and capital is simply moving on to greener more exploitable pastures.
That is one way to look at it at suppose…but you know colonial doesn’t have to focus on the abuses there was good created there as well. It is an analogy and you need to watch for logical leaps and other complicating factors.

We live in this colonial authoritarian society. It arrived on this land mass from another land it had already rolled over after brutally subjugating the tribes of Europe. Then it “discovered” this “new world”, eradicated the people present, took over the land, imported slaves from Africa, and colonized this land mass, also for the pleasure of a male dominator god and his most affluent well connected adherents, to the detriment of society at large. “New world”, same disease; material gluttony and an inability to understand one’s biological place in the natural world. But alas, the world has so much natural wealth to be horded, the peasants be damned, let them eat cake. And the expansion continues, others must be vilified in the minds of the masses, oh thy name sweet "Capitalism".
Mmm, as compared too?
 
I'm curious how old you are. I get the impression that you are young and just listen to liberal talking points. When I was young I was a Democrat and anti-war but after I matured I realized war is a necessary evil. Hitler had to be stopped. ISIS has to be stopped. North Korea has to be stopped. Iran had to be stopped. Both Russia an China need to be stopped. Now I puke whenever I see a coexist bumper sticker because it shows how naive and stupid some people are. I'd like to see these people drive their car through ISIS territory with their coexist bumper sticker and stop to shake hands, hug, and show an ISIS fighter some love and see what happens to them. Coexist only works when everyone else feels the same way and that is not reality.

You only see your preconceived notions of people which is why you get so much wrong. I am near retirement, served ten years active duty and was a Reagan republican
 
The thing is, if you are in the left box, it is dishonest to claim that you are not in the box. It's not the case of you being in the middle because you are not. You spout off a long list of liberal ideals and then claim you are not a lefty, you are a person who doesn't want to be labeled. As I said, several of you guys seem to find it insulting to be labeled lefties, even though you actually are lefties and yet the right does not find it insulting at all to be labeled righties. It would be different if you believed in several liberal policies and several conservative policies. You have rattled off about 20 liberal things you believe in and only 3 conservative policies you believe in. Please list all of the Republicans you have voted for over the last ten years. I'm betting it is zero, and yet you don't want to be labeled a lefty. You are who you are and I really don't understand why you are so embarrassed to admit it.

Boxes are very important to you. Please put me in whatever one helps you the most to feel better
 
Boxes are very important to you. Please put me in whatever one helps you the most to feel better

People are in their own boxes depending on their views. If you spout off numerous liberal ideals then you are a liberal.
 
Or was doing more harm then good and lost it support


Oh those 1930s full of rational people, nothing every happen bad in that time period *cough* WWII *cough*


As a man cautious of the perpetual growth curve you almost had me until you jump off the deep end and praise poverty and an of end of our innovation fountainhead. We can find a balance and capitalism is apart of that evolution. A free market of voluntary transactions works better for innovation and freedom than other other system tried. We need to build from our progress no doubt as the earth is a living ecosystem that will not accept perpetual growth, but you want to take it out at the knees for its flaws. No!


Umm, well it seem to raise nations out of poverty at a much faster rate than that previous system. So you may what to clarify your meaning? Do you feel these capitalist gain aren’t being shared globally?


Umm, okay first we have free labour its call volunteering and you can get people to do it to a point than their needs for things like food and shelter and healthcare tend to come in and you have a choice. Help them or lose your workers.

You act like slavery is a profitable business model. You can certainly gain wealth from it by lower labour costs to a point but your productive sucks(draining in other ways), you constantly risk a revolt(devastating to production), you have to maintain the social system which is resistant to a natural state (costly). Just to name a few. So today you see most of it in what Oil Wealth Nations or with traffickers always exploiting economic migrants in short term ventures. You really think those are the bustling competitors compared to our system here in America?

It bad business move used by desperately uncompetitive actors. The market is our main defence not the main driver of slavery.


Care to speak to the value question. CEO effect market capitalization in the billions where as worker generally only bring in a small fraction of revenue higher than their wages. It called a loss verse a raise in value and it changes based on skill, availability and impact. Why not side with the neutral explanation for the difference rather than some sinister force you have to explain and define?


I am with you there and that is exasperated by regulation and government control.


That is one way to look at it at suppose…but you know colonial doesn’t have to focus on the abuses there was good created there as well. It is an analogy and you need to watch for logical leaps and other complicating factors.


Mmm, as compared too?


The Powell Memorandum lined it all out very nicely, but your myopic belief system channels, as it is designed to, your perceptual reality. This system will not last another 100 years, it will do itself in. And many across the planet will be slaughtered attempting to prop it up. That is after all why we are at endless war and have blanketed the plant with military hegemony.
 
Susan Collins is a far left "moderate" republican

Her and rand paul are the last known holdouts in the senate

But in the house defense bill moderates inserted money for far left climate change and sex change that does not improve national defense

Yeah, our national defense is in such a dire state isn't it. We need to continue to hollow out society for the global military hegemony that allows our economic system to colonize the resources of others. After all, that's the only way our capitalist empire can expand to infinity.
 
The middle class as whole does much better in countries with strong unions. It also worked here in the US. We just need to get back to what works

Ask the democrats why they don't talk about card check to their fat cat buddies in Silicon Valkey.
 
Yeah, our national defense is in such a dire state isn't it. We need to continue to hollow out society for the global military hegemony that allows our economic system to colonize the resources of others. After all, that's the only way our capitalist empire can expand to infinity.

How does a net importer hedgemonize colonies?
 
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