Firefighters Union Assails Giuliani

[Indecent]

Source

WASHINGTON — One of the nation's largest firefighters' union has accused Republican presidential contender Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, of committing "egregious acts" against firefighters who died in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

The International Association of Fire Fighters, in a draft letter, excoriated Giuliani for his November 2001 decision to cut back the number of firefighters searching the rubble of Ground Zero for the remains of some 300 fallen comrades.

The 280,000-member union accused him of expediting the clean-up process with a "scoop-and-dump" operation after the recovery of millions of dollars in gold, silver and other assets from the Bank of Nova Scotia that had been buried.

"The disrespect that he exhibited to our 343 fallen FDNY brothers, their families and our New York City IAFF leadership in the wake of that tragic day has not been forgiven or forgotten," the letter says.

"Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill," it said, adding: "Hundreds remained entombed in Ground Zero when Giuliani gave up on them."

The union said the purpose of the letter was "to make all our members aware of the egregious acts Mayor Giuliani committed against our members, our fallen on 9/11 and our New York City union officers following that horrific day."

Ielpi, for his part, said he was "deeply disappointed and disheartened" by the union's recent political activities and called the letter offensive and inaccurate.

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A good friend of mine, a firefighter in Peoria, IL, spoke once about this when it happened - he and other local rescuers couldn't believe they were ordered to abandon their searches for fellow rescuers so soon, and were upset their fallen wouldn't even have the chance for a proper funeral.
It looks like the locals weren't so happy either - this came out today in several outlets, on AP and the washington post link I gave at the top.

 

[AndrewC]

Let me start by saying that I do not like Giuliani. That said, I don't see this as being that big of an issue. I thought this is what everyone loved about him. He cleaned up the city by removing all the unwanted graffiti, people and trash. These claims by the union seem to be more of the same.

Victims complained recently about new bones found around the site and the rush to clear the ground. It's not just Giuliani. The business community and millions of visiting Americans want to move on. Even if the victims still struggle with the reality of it.

I fear those that idolize Giuliani do so for the wrong reasons. They feel a strong emotional bond because of his visibility after the attack. Nothing I've read seems to suggest he did anything differently than thousands of other Americans. He was just a face and a voice on the television.

 

[Navy Pride]

I don't think Rudy is worried about the support of any major union......Traditionally they are in the backpockets of the democrats........

 

[LaMidRighter]

I fear those that idolize Giuliani do so for the wrong reasons. They feel a strong emotional bond because of his visibility after the attack. Nothing I've read seems to suggest he did anything differently than thousands of other Americans. He was just a face and a voice on the television.

I think it is more than just being a face Andrew, In my opinion, because Rudy was the mayor he was the trusted authority during the time of crisis, he could have pulled a Nagin or Blanco(ala Katrina) and just crumbled under pressure, but he held firm and guided a wounded city(and nation) through a major crisis. I think the strong emotional bond is reasonable in this case, because it is also backed up by a very worthy effort towards healing, what he did differently was to use his authority to control the situation, restore calm, and allow for the beginning of the healing process. As far as just being a face and voice on T.V., it was his job as mayor to have answers for his people at the time, T.V., Radio, and the Papers were a quick way to do it. I'll go on record as saying I like Guiliani, but disagree with a few of his core beliefs, I would rather a slightly more solid conservative be the Republican front runner, but Rudy is definitely not the worst choice currently.

 

[Indecent]

Let me start by saying that I do not like Giuliani. That said, I don't see this as being that big of an issue. I thought this is what everyone loved about him. He cleaned up the city by removing all the unwanted graffiti, people and trash. These claims by the union seem to be more of the same.

I hardly think allowing firefighters to look for the bodies of their fallen comrades compares to cleaning up graffiti and trash.
They're saying after the gold was recovered, Giuliani called off firefighter's searches, allowing over 300 trapped and dead firefighters to stay in the rubble.

 

[AndrewC]

I think it is more than just being a face Andrew, In my opinion, because Rudy was the mayor he was the trusted authority during the time of crisis, he could have pulled a Nagin or Blanco(ala Katrina) and just crumbled under pressure, but he held firm and guided a wounded city(and nation) through a major crisis. I think the strong emotional bond is reasonable in this case, because it is also backed up by a very worthy effort towards healing, what he did differently was to use his authority to control the situation, restore calm, and allow for the beginning of the healing process. As far as just being a face and voice on T.V., it was his job as mayor to have answers for his people at the time, T.V., Radio, and the Papers were a quick way to do it. I'll go on record as saying I like Guiliani, but disagree with a few of his core beliefs, I would rather a slightly more solid conservative be the Republican front runner, but Rudy is definitely not the worst choice currently.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. You speak as if he did something amazing. He did not. He yapped on the tele while others digged and tended to the wounded. If he provided you with some comfort, great. That is no more than what thousands of others did. Holding this man up as something more than a meager politician is an insult to every hard working decent American. He did what he was supposed to do. Nothing more.

 

[RightOfCenter]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. You speak as if he did something amazing. He did not. He yapped on the tele while others digged and tended to the wounded. If he provided you with some comfort, great. That is no more than what thousands of others did. Holding this man up as something more than a meager politician is an insult to every hard working decent American. He did what he was supposed to do. Nothing more.

Helping lead the nation through a crisis isn't something amazing? You act as if all he did was talk on the TV and radio. In addition to being a guiding light for the city and nation he also directed rescue and evacuation efforts and visited the injured and their families after the attack. The man was nearly trapped when the second tower crumbled. I would say he went above and beyond expectations. You might not like his politics, but to attack his accomplishments because of political differences...:doh

 

[Gibberish]

I don't think Rudy is worried about the support of any major union......Traditionally they are in the backpockets of the democrats........

If it was the Union of Truck drivers or something he shouldn't have a concern but he should be about this particular group. What kind of message would be received by conservative America if the NY Fire Fighters, who America loves and supports from 9/11, are talking out against Rudy?

 

[AndrewC]

Helping lead the nation through a crisis isn't something amazing? You act as if all he did was talk on the TV and radio. In addition to being a guiding light for the city and nation he also directed rescue and evacuation efforts and visited the injured and their families after the attack. The man was nearly trapped when the second tower crumbled. I would say he went above and beyond expectations. You might not like his politics, but to attack his accomplishments because of political differences...:doh

It has nothing to do with his politics. Was he alone that day or was he the only one with a microphone? Again, he did his job. So did thousands of others. However he gets all this credit. I say it's crap. I say he is no better than the others that were there with him. I say these feelings people have for this man are unhealthy. Doesn't it bother anyone that he's being considered for president soley because of his connection to the attack. Isn't that the same reason we all trusted Bush? Fsck, what is this? American Idol? "Ohh, I like him. He's a nice man. He makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!", WTF?

 

[RightOfCenter]

It has nothing to do with his politics.

If you say so...

Was he alone that day or was he the only one with a microphone? Again, he did his job. So did thousands of others. However he gets all this credit.

All the credit? To say he is getting all the credit is to ignore everything else that happened that day. How about the people that died on flight United 93? They're still regarded as heroes. The same goes for the firefighters and police officers that ran into a crumbling building to save others.

I say it's crap. I say he is no better than the others that were there with him. I say these feelings people have for this man are unhealthy.

So are the feelings people have for Obama.

Doesn't it bother anyone that he's being considered for president soley because of his connection to the attack.

Yeah, how dare we consider a tested leader for president.

Isn't that the same reason we all trusted Bush? Fsck, what is this? American Idol? "Ohh, I like him. He's a nice man. He makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!", WTF?

Bush was elected before 9/11 wasn't he?

 

[Kandahar]

I hardly think allowing firefighters to look for the bodies of their fallen comrades compares to cleaning up graffiti and trash.
They're saying after the gold was recovered, Giuliani called off firefighter's searches, allowing over 300 trapped and dead firefighters to stay in the rubble.

I really don't see this as an issue. First of all, this was in November 2001, so there weren't any "trapped" firefighters still in the rubble. No one could survive for two months. Second of all, once the flames were extinguished, the search-and-rescue was complete, and the firefighters had done everything they could, they were no longer needed at Ground Zero. They were needed elsewhere to protect New York City from fires.

It's sad that some bodies were never recovered, but it's not realistic to think that this could be avoided. It sounds to me like Rudy did the right thing.

 

[Just Me 2]

I lost six loved ones on 9/11 in those building, 4 were found 2 never were. Think for a minute, a jet hits a building right where you are sitting, do you really think there would be anything left of you to find? They looked for over two months, there is no way anyone could have survived and people need to realize that some victims were literally wiped off the face of the planet.

 

[danarhea]

I have mixed feelings on this -

1) At some point, you have to do a scoop and dump. You can't look forever. The big problem to me was communicating this in such a way as not to look heartless towards the 911 families. The problem was in the communication. I don't believe that Giuliani is as heartless as the union is making him out to be.

2) I believe that Giuliani stepped up to the plate on this one. Sure, he isn't the main hero. There are many of them. I believe that Giuliani, through his leadership, was one of many.

3) You can't blame Giuliani for funds that NYC did not receive after 911, which could have gone a long way towards alleviating cleanup problems. Those funds were promised, but it wasn't Giuliani who promised them. It was the Federal Government. If you are looking to point a finger, start with them.

Normally, I am not one to defend Giuliani. I do not like him personally, but this does seem to be a politically motivated smear attack on him. I won't take part in it. Giuliani did a very good job, considering the circumstances he was placed into.

 

[DeeJayH]

Let me start by saying that I do not like Giuliani. That said, I don't see this as being that big of an issue. I thought this is what everyone loved about him. He cleaned up the city by removing all the unwanted graffiti, people and trash. These claims by the union seem to be more of the same.

Victims complained recently about new bones found around the site and the rush to clear the ground. It's not just Giuliani. The business community and millions of visiting Americans want to move on. Even if the victims still struggle with the reality of it.

I fear those that idolize Giuliani do so for the wrong reasons. They feel a strong emotional bond because of his visibility after the attack. Nothing I've read seems to suggest he did anything differently than thousands of other Americans. He was just a face and a voice on the television.

as a former Nu Yawker, i would like to encourage you to read, not only about his work as mayor of NYC pre & post 9/11
but you should also look into his work as a Top Notch Federal Prosecutor
Giuliani is more liberal than i would like, but he is a great leader, he is a proven enabler of change and he is well prepared to be a War time president, and would get my vote over any current candidate/potential candidate
he has baggage(who doesnt), but it pales in comparison to Slick Willy and the HIldebeast

 

[DeeJayH]

I lost six loved ones on 9/11 in those building, 4 were found 2 never were. Think for a minute, a jet hits a building right where you are sitting, do you really think there would be anything left of you to find? They looked for over two months, there is no way anyone could have survived and people need to realize that some victims were literally wiped off the face of the planet.

not too mention that while the clean up was sped up at Ground zero
all the debris was combed over in tremendous detail at Fresh Kills for any evidence/remains

I lost 8 friends that day, and I have no problem with how it was handled
the only problem i have is that the Firefighters involved should have full treatment for all ailments related to, or even if it is only possibly related to, their work at ground zero

 

[Just Me 2]

not too mention that while the clean up was sped up at Ground zero
all the debris was combed over in tremendous detail at Fresh Kills for any evidence/remains

I lost 8 friends that day, and I have no problem with how it was handled
the only problem i have is that the Firefighters involved should have full treatment for all ailments related to, or even if it is only possibly related to, their work at ground zero

Condolences on your loss. I agree that the FF should get whatever treatment they need, it should be a top priority.