Federal Air Marshal fires weapon on a plane

[LaMidRighter]

I must say, I too had a big problem with the actions of these men.

First, the bags had gone through screening, and no bomb was detected.

I've seen the screening process, and wouldn't have held back fire if that's what I was relying on.

Second, the man ran out of the plane, had he wanted to hurt others, why run out of the plane?

Depends on the size and compression of the bomb, if the thing could have ignited the fuel on the plane, it would have been a disaster(hypothetically of course).

Third, his wife screamed that he was mentally unstable, and was off his medicine.

even more reason to believe he may not be bluffing.

Finally, why did they not just shoot him in his arm or upper chest, this would have thrown him off the bag?

Center mass was the appropriate shot in this case. An arm or leg shot could have missed and that would not only endanger the innocent, but if the man would have had a bomb, would have given him just enough time to hit the detonator(it's harder to be accurate under stress as well.) As well, it's not guaranteed that the Marshall's arm shot would have deterred the arm, especially if they use standard issues such as a 9mm or .38 cal. pistol, which don't have alot of stopping power.

 

[KCConservative]

It's o.k to ask questions James, we don't want anymore innocent people killed, do we?

Of course it's ok. Has someone asked you not to ask?

 

[Deegan]

Of course it's ok. Has someone asked you not to ask?

Well.....Colmes was asking the questions, it's his job. I guess I am just siding with his right to explore the situation, as I thought trigger happy as well, when the information continued to pour in.

 

[The Real McCoy]

I must say, I too had a big problem with the actions of these men.

First, the bags had gone through screening, and no bomb was detected.

"Maximum security" prisons are broken out of a little too frequently and there's no reason to believe airport security is 100% fool-proof either.

Second, the man ran out of the plane, had he wanted to hurt others, why run out of the plane?

Perhaps to avoid being blown up himself.

Third, his wife screamed that he was mentally unstable, and was off his medicine.

When I try putting myself in the Air Marshall's shoes, having to make a split second decision like that, the man's wife's screams would probably be drowned out by his shouting about having a BOMB.

Finally, why did they not just shoot him in his arm or upper chest, this would have thrown him off the bag?

I heard he wasn't shot in the head, although I'm not sure where exactly he was shot. Can anyone clarify this?

 

[KCConservative]

Well.....Colmes was asking the questions, it's his job. I guess I am just siding with his right to explore the situation, as I thought trigger happy as well, when the information continued to pour in.

Did you hear the Colmes show? If you did, then you'd understand that he blames the air marshall for the man's death, Bush and the post 911 heightened security is at fault and that if Bush hadn't used and manipulated the events of 911, none of this would have happened. If you heard it, then you'd understand this. But, by all means, ask questions all you like.

I always wonder which ones are the marshalls when I fly. It's good to know they are there and on top of it.

 

[scottyz]

Finally, why did they not just shoot him in his arm or upper chest, this would have thrown him off the bag?

I have some questions, and I am a conservative.

I too wondered why they didn't just shoot him in the leg or arm if there was some doubt. Apparently FAM's are required to shoot to kill.

 

[The Real McCoy]

especially if they use standard issues such as a 9mm or .38 cal. pistol, which don't have alot of stopping power.

I know they don't use conventional ammo capable of penetrating the fuselage but I'm not sure exactly what they do use. Anyone know?

 

[KCConservative]

I too wondered why they didn't just shoot him in the leg or arm if there was some doubt. Apparently FAM's are required to shoot to kill.

They are specifically trained not to injure, but to kill. He did his job.

 

[Deegan]

Did you hear the Colmes show? If you did, then you'd understand that he blames the air marshall for the man's death, Bush and the post 911 heightened security is at fault and that if Bush hadn't used and manipulated the events of 911, none of this would have happened. If you heard it, then you'd understand this. But, by all means, ask questions all you like.

I always wonder which ones are the marshalls when I fly. It's good to know they are there and on top of it.

I am just hoping we learn something from this, and that this does not become the norm, that we shoot to kill mentally unstable folks, that in most cases, can't control themselves. Maybe we can not, but i just don't want everyone to just go on with their lives, not asking what else we can do to prevent this.

 

[The Real McCoy]

I am just hoping we learn something from this, and that does not become the norm, that we shoot to kill mentally unstable folks, that in most cases, can't control themselves. Maybe we can not, but i just don't want everyone to just go on with their lives, not asking what else we can do to prevent this.

Being the first use of force by an FAM since 9/11, it could be an effective deterrent to future airline terrorists.

 

[KCConservative]

I am just hoping we learn something from this, and that does not become the norm, that we shoot to kill mentally unstable folks, that in most cases, can't control themselves. Maybe we can not, but i just don't want everyone to just go on with their lives, not asking what else we can do to prevent this.

I'm sure, that in the split second it took to assess the situation, the marshall didn;t stop to see if anyone was mentally unstable. Bringing a bomb on to a plane (or even saying he did) is unstable enough for me.

 

[Deegan]

Wow, I feel like the liberal here, what a change.:shock:

 

[KCConservative]

Wow, I feel like the liberal here, what a change.:shock:

lol, you're starting to scare me.

 

[scottyz]

Being the first use of force by an FAM since 9/11, it could be an effective deterrent to future airline terrorists.

I don't think he was really a terrorist.

 

[The Real McCoy]

I don't think he was really a terrorist.

I never said he was...

I said FUTURE airline terrorists.

 

[Deegan]

I never said he was...

I said FUTURE airline terrorists.

Errr, somehow I don't think they mind dying, hence the bomb strapped to their chest.:shock:

 

[aps]

Liberal pundit, Alan Colmes, was already making this story a partisan issue on his radio show last night. He made the argument that the air marshall was trigger happy and killed unnecessarily. If, however, the marshall didn't shoot the man and the guy had detonated the bomb (which he insisted he had), Alan would have insisted that airport security hasn't changed since 911 and that the administration is failing. These guys are so transparant.

KC, someone asked you how this was considered partisan? Yes, Alan Colmes is the liberal on Hannity and Colmes. Did he say it was Bush's fault? Did he say that he blamed republicans for this fiasco? I don't get it. Just because someone is either a politician or a political commentator does not make everything they say partisan.

I get the impression that all Colmes did was express that the Marshall was trigger happy. So what? What about that statement makes it partisan, except for the fact that he is a liberal?

 

[The Real McCoy]

Errr, somehow I don't think they mind dying, hence the bomb strapped to their chest.:shock:

Most airline bombers don't have the explosives strapped to their chest, but you do make a good point about them dying anyway. Still, the presence of an FAM would hinder other airline terrorist plans including hijackings.

 

[SixStringHero]

I don't understand the shoot to kill mentality.

Unless it was a head shot, there is no certainty that an upper body shot would be fatal. Even a heart or lung shot would take a while for the body to bleed out. They were probably trying to incapacitate the target.

 

[BWG]

I see. So Colmes gets to state his opinion but you take issue with me stating mine. Got it. :roll:

No, Colmes is entitled to his opinion, you yours and me mine.

It's your speculation that IF this would have happen, then Colmes WOULD HAVE said this, making it partisan. He didn't, you did. You are the one interjecting Bush and his policies into the conversation.

Did you hear the Colmes show? If you did, then you'd understand that he blames the air marshall for the man's death, Bush and the post 911 heightened security is at fault and that if Bush hadn't used and manipulated the events of 911, none of this would have happened.

Did Colmes say that Bush and the post 911 heightened security is at fault and that if Bush hadn't used and manipulated the events of 911, none of this would have happened?
Are these his words or are you the one bringing Bush into this once again?
If he did then I would agree with you that he was trying to make this a partisan issue. If not and it is your speculation of what he MIGHT have said, then it is you making this a partisan issue.

 

[steen]

I must say, I too had a big problem with the actions of these men.

First, the bags had gone through screening, and no bomb was detected.

Yes, and since we trust these screenings, what do we need Air marshals for to begin with? yes, we have them because there is always the risk of something slipping through.

Second, the man ran out of the plane, had he wanted to hurt others, why run out of the plane?

Running up in the terminal packed with people?

Third, his wife screamed that he was mentally unstable, and was off his medicine.

Could have been a decoy. Make the AMs hesitate until it was to late.

Finally, why did they not just shoot him in his arm or upper chest, this would have thrown him off the bag?

Running up the jetway away from them? Any shot that can stop him if he was a terrorist is necessary. If you shot him in the leg, he could still detonate the potential bomb.

I have some questions, and I am a conservative.

And I do feel that instead of second-guessing them from the comfort of our chairs, the main thing is to let professionals do their job.

 

[debate_junkie]

I am just hoping we learn something from this, and that this does not become the norm, that we shoot to kill mentally unstable folks, that in most cases, can't control themselves. Maybe we can not, but i just don't want everyone to just go on with their lives, not asking what else we can do to prevent this.

Can you look at someone and tell they are mentally unstable? Nope. How were the Marshal's to know he was bluffing? They didn't... they heard the word bomb, and their defense of that airplane kicked into high gear, as it should have.

A police officer tells someone to stop, they don't. They then lunge towards the officers, officers see reasonable threat to their safety and fire. No different. The man screamed he had a bomb, and then darted off the plan after he was told to freeze. He THEN reached into the same bag he claimed contained the bomb.... should they have waited for a bomb to detonate before firing?

It was this gentleman's family who was responsible to ensure his stability. Not the responsibility of the Air Marshal's to determine him to be stable and ignoring their request, or unstable. Bottom line.

 

[Deegan]

Can you look at someone and tell they are mentally unstable? Nope. How were the Marshal's to know he was bluffing? They didn't... they heard the word bomb, and their defense of that airplane kicked into high gear, as it should have.

A police officer tells someone to stop, they don't. They then lunge towards the officers, officers see reasonable threat to their safety and fire. No different. The man screamed he had a bomb, and then darted off the plan after he was told to freeze. He THEN reached into the same bag he claimed contained the bomb.... should they have waited for a bomb to detonate before firing?

It was this gentleman's family who was responsible to ensure his stability. Not the responsibility of the Air Marshal's to determine him to be stable and ignoring their request, or unstable. Bottom line.

The bottom line is, if we can't trust the screening process, FAM's will be of no help what so ever. Knowing they are on the planes now, they will not even announce their intentions, they will just pull the pin, press the button, and it's bye bye airplane.:shock:

 

[debate_junkie]

The bottom line is, if we can't trust the screening process, FAM's will be of no help what so ever. Knowing they are on the planes now, they will not even announce their intentions, they will just pull the pin, press the button, and it's bye bye airplane.:shock:

The screening process, while faulty, is still better than the way it used to be. The Federal Air Marshal's, while their presence may scare most, think of what they could have done on 9/11? The terrorists had to mobilize to take the cockpits... would the terrorists have been able to do this with guns in their faces? Absolutely not... NO measure is foolproof, but being proactive as best as possible is the ONLY way to get ahead of these clowns.

 

[KCConservative]

I get the impression that all Colmes did was express that the Marshall was trigger happy. So what?

And I get the impression you didn't hear the show.