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FDR Had the new deal. Johnson had the great society idea. AOC is proposing a new green deal...

bongsaway

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?
 

washunut

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?

EPA created under Nixon.
 

apdst

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?

The Green New Deal will move The United States backwards.
 

bongsaway

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The Green New Deal will move The United States backwards.

The usual response from the right. It's bad, won't work. End of subject. Can't you guys add something to the conversation instead of constant negativity? Every response is basically the same answer, won't work, bad for america.
 

washunut

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And corporate america has done its best ever since to kill it.

EPA is much more powerful today than it was when created in 1970. Corporations can try and push back,but don't think they have been successful overall.
 

apdst

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The usual response from the right. It's bad, won't work. End of subject. Can't you guys add something to the conversation instead of constant negativity? Every response is basically the same answer, won't work, bad for america.

It's unconstitutional. But, no one on the Left cares about that.
 

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?

Americans have very little willingness to sacrifice to "Save the Planet", so politically this is a radical not not very good idea.

Also the case has not been made that humans should degrade our lives to follow the plans of the environmental radicals.
 

Bullseye

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?
LOL, and FDR's radical idea prolonged the Great Depression. And the "Great Society" has been a total failure - poverty is still as prevalent as it was in Johnson's day despite poor trillions into a plethora of dark holes. Got anything else?
 

washunut

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From the OP:


??? Of what prejudices did the EPA help to disabuse the US?

What prejudices did the New Deal disabuse. My sense is I answered in the spirit of the OP.
 

Xelor

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What prejudices did the New Deal disabuse. My sense is I answered in the spirit of the OP.

First:
Your attempt to divest my inquiry of a material element of its context makes me wonder about whether I should engage with you on this topic. The question I asked you, and that your reply above ducks directly answering, is "Of what prejudices did the EPA help to disabuse the US?" There is a notable difference between "helping to disabuse" and "disabusing."

I posed the question fully aware that the EPA's implementation didn't disabuse the country of prejudice; prejudice still exists in the US; thus that definitely didn't happen. Nonetheless, insofar as you proffered it as an example, I figured you could and would defend your implicit assertion that Nixon's effectuation of the EPA helped disabuse the US of prejudice(s). Frankly, I though your assertion novel enough that, provided you defended it with regard to the specific question the OP-er asked, it augured for intriguing discourse.


Second:
Revising your above question so that it mirrors the nature of the one I posed to you, I will offer a brief yet trenchant answer to this question:​


  • [*=1]What prejudices did the New Deal help to disabuse?

The unresolved issue of race contained the scope of realized New Deal liberalism to the miracle decade between 1935 and 1945; however, its coincidence with the major migration of southern blacks into the North between 1915 and 1945, helped usher blacks into the New Deal electoral coalition by 1944. Moreover, the New Deal helped galvanize a powerful effort by some in the labor movement to welcome black workers into their industries and unions -- an act that unavoidably contributes to changing folks' minds about race and prejudice -- particularly those affiliated with the CIO; however, in the union movement as in the Roosevelt administration, dwelt an inconsistent commitment to equality that limited the reach of the liberal coalition.[SUP]1[/SUP] (Source: The Southern Diaspora -- How the Great Migrations of Black and White Southerners Transformed America.)

Just as the New Deal wrought opportunity for attenuating prejudice, so too did it catalyze responses to integration that exacerbated and availed themselves of prejudice. For instance, directly as a result of his observations of the New Deal and its effects, Richard Nixon construed is 1972 victory as an imprimatur on the scale of FDR. So struck, Nixon formed his strategy to shift the electorate's allegiances from the shared material world of the New Deal to the divisions of culture, social life, and race. As he lectured his advisors about the new world of the 1970s, "The real issues of the election are the ones like patriotism, morality, religion -- not the material issues. If the issues were prices and taxes, they'd vote for McGovern."

Did the New Deal imperfectly abet the diminution of prejudice? Yes, yet it did help. The short is that the nature and extent of the New Deal's amelioration and spread of egalitarianism cannot be "nutshelled" into a binary conclusion of "it did" or "it didn't" disabuse the nation of prejudice; however, one can credibly say it helped abase racial prejudice's pervasiveness.​


Note:​


  1. [*=1]In light of my having drawn upon and presented a high level summary of content from a text for which I cannot find a free-access source, I'll point you to a brief but reasonably detailed exposition that one can freely obtain: "New Deal for Minorities During the Great Depression."


Third:
Now that I've directly answered your question, please return the discursive kindness and do so regarding the one I asked you, unless, of course, you prefer to withdraw your assertion.

 

Casca XV

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?

Most Historians with actual data and one of FDRs own advisors agree the New Deal is why the Great Depression lasted 10 years instead of about 2.

Both Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams agree LBJs great society did more damage the Black Community than Jim Crow or Segregation ever did.

How much damage will "Short bus" Cortez Green Program do if anyone lets her near anything resembling power?
 

bongsaway

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Most Historians with actual data and one of FDRs own advisors agree the New Deal is why the Great Depression lasted 10 years instead of about 2.

Both Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams agree LBJs great society did more damage the Black Community than Jim Crow or Segregation ever did.

How much damage will "Short bus" Cortez Green Program do if anyone lets her near anything resembling power?

The usual response. You're welcome to your opinion I'm not so sure history agrees with you. So other than the negative comment did you want to forward something good a republican president did for the country?
 

bongsaway

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EPA is much more powerful today than it was when created in 1970. Corporations can try and push back,but don't think they have been successful overall.

Oh yeah, especially since the head of it was Scott Pruitt from Oklahoma the energy lobbyist who sued the EPA before he was it's head. Great pick to head the EPA. But then again trump made several of those exact same appointments in other departments. Dept. of energy which is now headed by Rick Perry. Remember him, ran for president, was going to abolish three departments but couldn't remember the third, oops. Yeah, it was the department of energy. Another great pick.
 

Casca XV

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The usual response. You're welcome to your opinion I'm not so sure history agrees with you. So other than the negative comment did you want to forward something good a republican president did for the country?

You mean like our current President who has done the opposite of what FDR, LBJ, and "Short Bus" Cortez would have done, which has created the best overall economy 30 in years, is slowly solving the 70 year old North Korea problem and is ending US trade deficits with almost the entire rest of the world.

Or how about Ronald Reagan who caused the fall of the USSR the greatest physical threat the US ever had and created economic prosperity that lasted over 10 years after he left office.
 

Casca XV

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Oh yeah, especially since the head of it was Scott Pruitt from Oklahoma the energy lobbyist who sued the EPA before he was it's head. Great pick to head the EPA. But then again trump made several of those exact same appointments in other departments. Dept. of energy which is now headed by Rick Perry. Remember him, ran for president, was going to abolish three departments but couldn't remember the third, oops. Yeah, it was the department of energy. Another great pick.


Of course Rick Perry on President Trumps instruction negotiated with Poland and now they get all their Natural Gas form the US instead of Russia. Devastating to the Russian economy but great for ours. Yet of course Dems still Trump is owned by Putin.
 

bongsaway

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You mean like our current President who has done the opposite of what FDR, LBJ, and "Short Bus" Cortez would have done, which has created the best overall economy 30 in years, is slowly solving the 70 year old North Korea problem and is ending US trade deficits with almost the entire rest of the world.

Or how about Ronald Reagan who caused the fall of the USSR the greatest physical threat the US ever had and created economic prosperity that lasted over 10 years after he left office.

The economy was doing fine under Obama. I know I'm wrong but just for fun, take a look at the stock chart for the dow under Obama. Trump to his credit so far has kept it going. As far as north korea, what was it that reagan used to say, trust but verify. Once it's verified I'll feel like something positive is happening. And republicans should be ashamed even mentioning reagan's name to see how friendly the GOP has gotten towards his mortal enemy.
 

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The economy was doing fine under Obama. I know I'm wrong but just for fun, take a look at the stock chart for the dow under Obama. Trump to his credit so far has kept it going. As far as north korea, what was it that reagan used to say, trust but verify. Once it's verified I'll feel like something positive is happening. And republicans should be ashamed even mentioning reagan's name to see how friendly the GOP has gotten towards his mortal enemy.


GDP growth is the most complete overall indicator of the health of an economy. Obama was the first US President to never reach 3% annual growth making him the worst Modern day economic president in US history. Trump would have achieved 3% his first year except that Obama had it down to 1.2% on the day he left office. Trump will easily achieve that for 2018. It will be announced in a few days.

Feel free to mention the Obama economic policies that ever improved any part of the economy? Cheap fuel is what kept us out of a double dip recession under Obama. Fracking and new drilling technology created that cheap fuel, Obama opposed Fracking and drilling. The economic improvements were despite not because of Obama.

North and South Korea have almost normalized relations like they have not had in 70 years. That is a verifiable positive happening and the South Korean President has publically credit to Trump for making it happen.

Reagan and Trump are total opposites in style and personality, but in policy and situation they are almost identical. The NeverTrumpers like to claim Reagan as their own now but while he was in office he was as much an outsider as Trump is today.
 

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The economy was doing fine under Obama. I know I'm wrong but just for fun, take a look at the stock chart for the dow under Obama. Trump to his credit so far has kept it going. As far as north korea, what was it that reagan used to say, trust but verify. Once it's verified I'll feel like something positive is happening. And republicans should be ashamed even mentioning reagan's name to see how friendly the GOP has gotten towards his mortal enemy.

The trump economy has been flat as a pancake the last 6 months...2019?.....Time will tell
 

bongsaway

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GDP growth is the most complete overall indicator of the health of an economy. Obama was the first US President to never reach 3% annual growth making him the worst Modern day economic president in US history. Trump would have achieved 3% his first year except that Obama had it down to 1.2% on the day he left office. Trump will easily achieve that for 2018. It will be announced in a few days.

Feel free to mention the Obama economic policies that ever improved any part of the economy? Cheap fuel is what kept us out of a double dip recession under Obama. Fracking and new drilling technology created that cheap fuel, Obama opposed Fracking and drilling. The economic improvements were despite not because of Obama.

North and South Korea have almost normalized relations like they have not had in 70 years. That is a verifiable positive happening and the South Korean President has publically credit to Trump for making it happen.

Reagan and Trump are total opposites in style and personality, but in policy and situation they are almost identical. The NeverTrumpers like to claim Reagan as their own now but while he was in office he was as much an outsider as Trump is today.

You guys never fail to try to negate anything Obama accomplished. Statistics can be made to say whatever you want, that's why I say look at the dow stock chart, it doesn't offer an opinion it shows what is.
 

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At different times on our history some president's proposed 'radical' ideas to move america forward. I've listed two that happened and one currently brewing. Lincoln had the radical idea of freeing the slaves. What other republican big ideas can you remember that helped our country move forward and away from some of its prejudices?

Accassio's green deal is radical but no it wouldn't move this Nation forward.

Its effects on the US economy would be catastrophic. Our global adversaries would take full advantage of Americas weakness and continue to rely on fosssil fuels.

If you asked China or Russia to come up with a energy policy for the US, they would propose something similar to Occasio's Green deal.

Her Green deal is basically the Canada's " Leap Manifesto '' that was proposed in 2015. She just tweaked it a bit and then slapped her name on it

Germany tried something similar to this. In 2011 they shut down their nuclear power plants and dove head first into renewables.
Energy prices skyrocketed with consumers paying 300% more for energy than American consumers. Germany was eventually forced to turn to coal and have built several new coal fired plants since then
 

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Accassio's green deal is radical but no it wouldn't move this Nation forward.

Its effects on the US economy would be catastrophic. Our global adversaries would take full advantage of Americas weakness and continue to rely on fosssil fuels.

If you asked China or Russia to come up with a energy policy for the US, they would propose something similar to Occasio's Green deal.

Her Green deal is basically the Canada's " Leap Manifesto '' that was proposed in 2015. She just tweaked it a bit and then slapped her name on it

Germany tried something similar to this. In 2011 they shut down their nuclear power plants and dove head first into renewables.
Energy prices skyrocketed with consumers paying 300% more for energy than American consumers. Germany was eventually forced to turn to coal and have built several new coal fired plants since then
And as a result have actually moved backward in their "Save the Planet" plan in the energy sector...they have spent gobs of money going in reverse.

Success we are told is "just around the corner" but that is almost as rote as "Have a nice day" these days, our leaders lie to us constantly..
 

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EPA created under Nixon.

Yes, it's true. As crooked as that old bastard was, that was only one side of him.
He not only created the EPA, at the eleventh hour, after a horrible series of battles, finally responded to pressure from all sides on healthcare and took a meeting with Ted Kennedy. He offered to work in bipartisan fashion to put together what he figured would be a national health care plan modeled loosely on the Kaiser system, with coverage for everyone.

Kennedy harumphed and stood on ceremony, muttering something about "not invented here", indicating that it would have to be a Democrat solution or nothing. Yup, Ted Kennedy, lauded as a "great lion of health care" at the moment of truth, turned into a partisan hack.

Fine, Nixon said, "offer withdrawn" and indicated where Kennedy could stick his partisanship.
Kennedy would go to his grave saying it was the biggest mistake of his entire political career, and America would have long since been enjoying affordable and universal health care...if only.
It WAS Nixon who extended the olive branch, and he does deserve credit for trying.
 
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