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Father of Michigan school shooter found guilty of manslaughter weeks after mother’s conviction

Good. Their behavior went far beyond negligence to actively aiding and abetting their son's shooting. I hope they spend the rest of their lives in prison.
 
Proper verdict.
Parental accountability is a good thing.
So I wouldn't agree to this degree in most situations. But in this case, those parents were very much responsible to a large degree in what happened, especially since they bought him, their 15 year old son, who told them he had mental health problems and wanted to get help, but they laughed at him and told him to suck it up, the gun. Those were the biggest things that make them complicit in this event. Add on the other indicators that built up and their still lack of concern, easy verdict that was definitely correct.
 
Shoulda seen the writing on the wall when his spouse got clinked.
Pretty sure they (he and his lawyers) knew he was screwed after her verdict. In fact, I think the reason they decided to do separate trials was because they probably thought the jury would have higher sympathy for a mother than a father, and it would have likely been about both of them, averaging out any sympathy held if they were tried together. I think they were looking to eke out an acquittal for the mother first, and then be able to use that in the defense for the father. Since they didn't get an acquittal for the mother, that defense is shot.
 
I've had two incidents that made me think WTH on other states gun laws. I'm not going to dig up the states, but the first one was the kid (teen) that shot his brother, then some neighbors and went on to kill some people on a park walking trail before he tried (and failed) to kill himself. While reading various things I was actually shocked to find out that people could freely target shoot (or fire their guns) in their yards even with home nearby. The second was that little 6 year old that tried to kill his teacher. That state has no law about keeping guns locked up away from kids. Both of those just seem crazy to me.
That first one was NC, right here in my county.

They did this within about a week or 2 of that shooting.


Mind you, pretty sure that took place in an incorporated area, but I could be wrong. Raleigh/Wake County is a very interesting area as it is highly metropolitan, high population but also appears pretty rural for a larger city. Just looking from my house to my town, still in Wake county and around this area, you'd see how mixed it is here.
 
Too many people see mental illness as being a failure. If their kid came to them complaining of breathing issues or bad stomach pains, they'd probably to go them checked out and tell people damn, Ethan has asthma or an ulcer that we have to keep an eye on. But when the kid says mom I'm having bad thoughts and hearing voices, they think ohhhhh hell no, I'm not raising a mentally ill kid here, you're FINE!!
This hit home because of how many times I've had to explain to people (including my parents) that my son having a therapist is normal, is fine, really very little different than having any other routine doctor. He asked me to get him into therapy, saying he had some issues he wanted help working out and he feels therapy should be something people set up/go to like they do normal routine checkups for their physical health. Far too many parents and other adults think a child in therapy means the child must be a mental case, so, as you described, the parents fight the stigma, put their pride above the health of their child.
 
Guns are here to stay, as are knives, ropes, baseball bats, and all other objects which can be used to kill.
We need to permanently remove those who take the life of others for no justifiable reason.
A firearm can kill from a distance, is designed solely for killing (technically), and is usually concealable so your comparisons are false.

We have no problem regulating explosives, toxins, dangerous gases, and medications, yet we cannot adequately regulate firearms.

A discussion of capital punishment is beyond the scope of this thread, but revenge alone is an uninformed and atavistic response to anti-social behavior that may even have been beyond the control of the perpetrator.
 
I doubt many parents today really know much about their kids.

Take an aspirin or a Tylenol.
You'd probably be wrong, especially compared to parents of the past, who tended to be far more dismissive of problems their children had, hiding them far more often.
 
A firearm can kill from a distance, is designed solely for killing (technically), and is usually concealable so your comparisons are false.

We have no problem regulating explosives, toxins, dangerous gases, and medications, yet we cannot adequately regulate firearms.

A discussion of capital punishment is beyond the scope of this thread, but revenge alone is an uninformed and atavistic response to anti-social behavior that may even have been beyond the control of the perpetrator.
Guns are better for killing at a distance, but people are murdered by many other means as well.

If only criminals would adhere to government regulations.

I don't see it as revenge, but simply the elimination of a problem to make society safer and more affordable.
 
The parents simply raising him wasn't why they were convicted. It took a lot more specific circumstances involving neglect and complicity of the parents to get to the convictions.
I'd have to had sat and watched the trial to really form an opinion, which I didn't.
 
Guns are better for killing at a distance, but people are murdered by many other means as well.

If only criminals would adhere to government regulations.

I don't see it as revenge, but simply the elimination of a problem to make society safer and more affordable.
You must support the repeal of legislation which criminalizes child rape, one imagines, since the laws don't prevent all child rapes?
 
I'd have to had sat and watched the trial to really form an opinion, which I didn't.
Making shit up isn't going to help you (you indicated in posts that it was simply parenting that led to the conviction). There is plenty of information available here and throughout the internet to be able to determine that these convictions were not based on anything near as simple as they are his parents, so they are responsible for the incident. That's not what happened, not what the facts of the case are.
 
You'd probably be wrong, especially compared to parents of the past, who tended to be far more dismissive of problems their children had, hiding them far more often.
When I grew up, nearly everyone 13 or older had a rifle, and we were taught how to use them safely.
Mostly squirrel hunting, though sometimes a rabbit was brought home. We didn't have computers, video games, or TV, just radios, and spent most of our time in the woods, fishing, or just exploring.
 
When I grew up, nearly everyone 13 or older had a rifle, and we were taught how to use them safely.
Mostly squirrel hunting, though sometimes a rabbit was brought home. We didn't have computers, video games, or TV, just radios, and spent most of our time in the woods, fishing, or just exploring.
And any children with mental health problems were hidden away and the parents were quick to either pretend they didn't exist or point out that they were locked away somewhere. Even things like autism were deemed mental health issues that required children to be hidden if recognized at all. Otherwise other stigma was put into place.

I hate when people pretend the past was so great by ignoring the oh so many problems that were in the past, such as racism, sexism, abuse, child labor, and so much more.
 
Guns are better for killing at a distance, but people are murdered by many other means as well.

If only criminals would adhere to government regulations.
The lax regulations for commerce in firearms makes them easily available to those with criminal intent. How many deaths occur from fully automatic weapons yearly? Zero, because they are regulated adequately.
I don't see it as revenge, but simply the elimination of a problem to make society safer and more affordable.
It is essentially retribution. It is cheaper to imprison for life than to execute, if $$ are your primary consideration.
 
Recreation shooting can be far better regulated, as for example, keeping handguns locked up at the range.
Nonsensical solution to a nonexistent problem.

Gun ranges don’t store customers firearms, and even if they did, the majority of firearms owners, including myself, that utilize ranges do so with the same firearms they lawfully keep for their own protection.
 
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Nonsensical solution to a nonexistent problem.

Gun ranges don’t store customers firearms, and even if they did, the majority of firearms owners, including myself, that utilize ranges do so with the same firearms they lawfully keep for their own protection.
Seems to work in Canada.
 
Canada doesn’t have a 2nd amendment.
2A can be credited with hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths over the past many decades.
It does indulge the vigilante mentality, of course, so there is that benefit for the needy.
 
2A can be credited with hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths over the past many decades.
It does indulge the vigilante mentality, of course, so there is that benefit for the needy.
An entirely disingenuous argument. 2A doesn’t give Americans the right to use firearms to murder each other anymore than 1A gives Americans the right of speech advocating illegal conduct, or the advocacy of illegal conduct,
 
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/14/us/james-crumbley-manslaughter-trial-thursday/index.html

James Crumbley, the father of the teenager who killed four students at a Michigan high school in 2021, was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in a trial that comes a month after the shooter’s mother was convicted of the same charges.

Crumbley was convicted of four counts of involuntary manslaughter, a charge that carries a maximum punishment of up to 15 years in prison, which would run concurrently.

Jury deliberations that concluded Thursday came more than two years after his son, Ethan Crumbley, then 15, used a SIG Sauer 9mm to kill four students and wound six students and a teacher at Oxford High School on November 30, 2021....
I don't have a significant issue with a guilty verdict. The potential punishment seems excessive.
 
An entirely disingenuous argument. 2A doesn’t give Americans the right to use firearms to murder each other anymore than 1A gives Americans the right of speech advocating illegal conduct, or the advocacy of illegal conduct,
The privilege of owning firearms has created a sea of lethal weapons throughout the population. That prevalence has resulted, over the years, in hundreds of thousands of deaths (and many more injuries). Denying that 2A is responsible for that public health crisis is just not correct.
 
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