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Father asks school to bar unvaccinated children.

Sherman123 said:
You do realize that failing to vaccinate is dangerous for everyone not just yourself right? You shouldn't be able to treat your children like property, especially when you treat them impacts the rest of us.
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I don't profess to be know a great deal about the subject - I'm just speaking from an individual rights perspective - but could you explain how a child who hasn't been vaccinated is a danger to everyone who has been vaccinated? I could understand if you were claiming the unvaccinated child could be a danger to other unvaccinated children, but if a danger to the vaccinated ones, what's the value of the vaccination?
 
Sherman123 said:
Not vaccinating your children is empirically and verifiably contributing to a health risk for themselves and for everyone else. The comparison doesn't fly.
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A) Actually it does - most especially with the chastity belts.
B) However, I would love to hear how not vaccinating my 18 month old daughter against STDs empirically and verifiably contributes to a health risk to others. Do tell.
 
Helix said:
his kid can't be vaccinated yet. kids who are allergic to eggs can't, either. but there aren't very many of them. if a minuscule minority isn't vaccinated, that's not a problem. if a big chunk of the population is delusional about vaccination, though, that becomes a major problem.
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The point is, I believe, if the sick/recovery child with the weakened immune system, who hasn't been vaccinated, isn't this "danger to everyone", why is a healthy child who hasn't been vaccinated a greater danger to everyone else? Isn't the child with the weakened immune system likely to be a stronger risk as a carrier than a healthy child?
 
BrewerBob said:
Agreed. If you are going to CHOOSE to not vaccinate your child then you should homeschool.
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I'm fine with that.
I'm also a fan of the idea that if your child has truly special needs that home schooling could be the answer for that child as well.

Especially if your child has a life-threatening health issue from a plethora of diseases that the majority of other kids would easily live through with little more than missing a few days of school.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't profess to be know a great deal about the subject - I'm just speaking from an individual rights perspective - but could you explain how a child who hasn't been vaccinated is a danger to everyone who has been vaccinated? I could understand if you were claiming the unvaccinated child could be a danger to other unvaccinated children, but if a danger to the vaccinated ones, what's the value of the vaccination?
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A large population of unvaccinated children allows the virus to mutate as it travels between hosts. That can then render the original vaccination useless.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
So his kid has leukemia which on top of the time in hospitals and the mental anguish presents a massive financial burden on a family, he should then be forced to endure the additional financial burden of private schools or tutoring, just to accommodate some idiots that create a public health issue by not vaccinating their kids.
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Actually if he's weak or sick, that will be better for him as it is more able to bend to his needs.

And yeah. You're not allowed to control others' decisions because you yourself want to shape them to fit you. I don't want my children raised in an environment where they are exposed in inappropriate ways to drug and sex references. But you know what I don't do? Insist that no one else is allowed to have their kids exposed to them either, in the off chance that they might tell my kid about it.
 
Declan said:
Yes, I do. You lose. I just have to say my kid is a Jehovah's Witness or something and he will be off infecting your spawn with all sorts of snotty illnesses.
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and that's the unfortunate state of affairs now, and why diseases which were nearly eradicated are making a resurgence. i'm arguing that we should change the policy.
 
Nilly said:
To Protect His Son, A Father Asks School To Bar Unvaccinated Children : Shots - Health News : NPR



The consequences of not vaccinating your children stretch further than your own childs life, but this is an interesting exercise in whether the father should require other children to also be vaccinated to accommodate his sons disease. Would a better solution be for him to just take his son out of the line of fire?

Personally I would do the exact same thing as the father in that situation and make that same request. I also hope that the request is granted as a blow against ignorance.
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wait, kid has battled lukiemia and cant be vaccinated and he wants to put his kid in a school full of unvaccinated kids with dumbass parents?


/facepalm
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't profess to be know a great deal about the subject - I'm just speaking from an individual rights perspective - but could you explain how a child who hasn't been vaccinated is a danger to everyone who has been vaccinated? I could understand if you were claiming the unvaccinated child could be a danger to other unvaccinated children, but if a danger to the vaccinated ones, what's the value of the vaccination?
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I'll repost from above:

Vaccines are not completely effective. They have efficacy rates from the the low 70's up to the high 99's---but not complete. To ensure that as many people are protected as possible we need total vaccination to secure our herd immunity. You would never know if your vaccine was ineffective until you became infected.
 
CanadaJohn said:
The point is, I believe, if the sick/recovery child with the weakened immune system, who hasn't been vaccinated, isn't this "danger to everyone", why is a healthy child who hasn't been vaccinated a greater danger to everyone else? Isn't the child with the weakened immune system likely to be a stronger risk as a carrier than a healthy child?
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there are few kids who are allergic to eggs. there aren't many kids at any given school recovering from leukemia. there are many more unvaccinated kids due to parental paranoia. those are the ones that are the fuel for the fire because there are a lot more of them.
 
You know, it used to be that parents wanted their two and three year olds to get chickenpox and measles as soon as possible: the immune system on kids is like venom in baby rattle snakes. Both mine got them, now they don't have to worry.
 
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cpwill said:
A) Actually it does - most especially with the chastity belts.
B) However, I would love to hear how not vaccinating my 18 month old daughter against STDs empirically and verifiably contributes to a health risk to others. Do tell.
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What straw, the discussion is not about STD's.

Your argument fails on measles and other childhood communicable disease, your save attempt is to inject "std's" into the discussion.

What utter crap.

It is lower than Wakefield argument.
 
Sherman123 said:
What health effects? The HPV vaccine is brilliant. Also 'Health Impact News' is a notorious conspiracy ridden faux 'news' site. You should have gotten a hint from the headline "Health News that Other Media Outlets May Censor!" lol. The article is nonsense.
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You want to believe that everything the CDC says is 100% true all the time without fail and that skeptics are hypnotized by "faux" news, that's up to you. When people stop becoming skeptical and just sheep on issues, I'm sure you'll be there to bray (post) your happiness. Science isn't 100% and let me remind you that behind these vaccines are the "evil" pharma corporations who are greedy bastards just looking for more money to line their pockets.

There should always be skeptics, not sheep. However, if you want to be a sheep, I fully support you in that endeavor and be the best sheep you can be.
 
Nilly said:
A large population of unvaccinated children allows the virus to mutate as it travels between hosts. That can then render the original vaccination useless.
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Wouldn't the sick/recovering child with the weakened immune system, without the vaccinations, be more susceptible to any virus and be a more susceptible "host" to a disease than a healthy child? Following the father's logic, shouldn't his child be barred from school for the very reasons he states?
 
Dragonfly said:
I'm fine with that.
I'm also a fan of the idea that if your child has truly special needs that home schooling could be the answer for that child as well.

Especially if your child has a life-threatening health issue from a plethora of diseases that the majority of other kids would easily live through with little more than missing a few days of school.
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how does one home school while also work to earn a living for their family?
 
cpwill said:
Actually if he's weak or sick, that will be better for him as it is more able to bend to his needs.

And yeah. You're not allowed to control others' decisions because you yourself want to shape them to fit you. I don't want my children raised in an environment where they are exposed in inappropriate ways to drug and sex references. But you know what I don't do? Insist that no one else is allowed to have their kids exposed to them either, in the off chance that they might tell my kid about it.
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It is a public health issue. If you want to argue that you have the right not to have your kids vaccinated, then fine. That right does not extend to allowing your unvaccinated kids access to public schools.
 
jet57 said:
You know, it used to be that parents wanted their two and three year olds to get chicken pocks and measles as soon as possible: the immune system on kids is like venom in baby rattle snakes. Both mine got them, now they don't have to worry.
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Chickenpox's kills man. Really, I should be dead right now. I imagine most of us should actually. :mrgreen:
 
Sherman123 said:
I'll repost from above:

Vaccines are not completely effective. They have efficacy rates from the the low 70's up to the high 99's---but not complete. To ensure that as many people are protected as possible we need total vaccination to secure our herd immunity. You would never know if your vaccine was ineffective until you became infected.
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Which doesn't deal with the point that the sick/recovering child would be of a higher risk to others because he is also not vaccinated and he has a weakened immune system. By the very logic you present, the sick/recovering child should be barred for the same health reasons as any other unvaccinated healthy child.
 
cpwill said:
B) However, I would love to hear how not vaccinating my 18 month old daughter against STDs empirically and verifiably contributes to a health risk to others. Do tell.
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See:

Nilly said:
A large population of unvaccinated children allows the virus to mutate as it travels between hosts. That can then render the original vaccination useless.
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Just by contracting the disease you can contribute to a health risk to others. It's kind of like how you have to keep on taking antibiotics even after you feel fine, to make sure that the bacteria is completely gone. We need to make the same steps when it comes to diseases and public health. Stamp it completely out, by targeting the 1% of people who aren't vaccinated.
 
Helix said:
there are few kids who are allergic to eggs. there aren't many kids at any given school recovering from leukemia. there are many more unvaccinated kids due to parental paranoia. those are the ones that are the fuel for the fire because there are a lot more of them.
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Respectfully, that ignores the point and the question. Why is the child who is sick/recovering with a weakened immune system who is also unvaccinated a lesser danger than a healthy child who is also unvaccinated? We all can feel for the child recovering, but if you want to claim that unvaccinated healthy children risk the health of vaccinated healthy children, then you have to accept that a sick/recovering child with a weakened immune system is a greater risk to healthy vaccinated children. The logic requires it.
 
The problem here is that this guy should not be putting his child in public school period. It doesn't matter if all of the students were vaccinated in the school. His son almost certainly could not handle the stress on his immune system from the things that don't have vaccines to prevent them. The flu has a vaccine that many take and still end up dying from because it mutates too quickly.

It is stupid. This is natural things here. And I'm sorry to sound callous, but people die, including children. We should not be forcing people to get their children vaccinated on the off chance that their child might get a relatively non-fatal illness and still die from it. That chance still exists when everyone that can be is vaccinated.

I'm not against vaccines. I am against mandatory vaccinations, especially against things that are relatively benign illnesses.
 
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