Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

The story indicated that wintnesses (more then one) corroborated the account. If you don't like the wording or think the reporting is incorrect, take it up with the reporter.

I am saying that the wording isn't conclusive. It's not conclusive that the reporter is trying to tell us that the whole story has been corroborated.

But,. if you will note, the article you link to cite this article as it's source:
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Which is the one I posted here earlier.

the article which is cited as source info for teh article you cited say this:

"...and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."
​

Which, imho, is markedly different than saying that witnesses had corroborated the entire series of events or even saw who started it.

of course, ymmv

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

And which part has been corroborated?
The whole things from start to end?

We already knew that there were witnesses to the two of them fighting. That is corroboration. But, it's not corroborating who started it.

So, you don't know for sure that anyone else saw it start. You're basing your belief on the way the reporter phrased his copy.

You may be right. But I'm not nearly as convinced as if there was something that said someone else saw it start.

A fight happened. That much we know. I dont think its possible to know with 100% certainty who threw the first punch or push. We have Zimmermans account. Zimmermans injuries match his account. If Martin was slamming Zimmermans head into the ground and Zimmerman was screaming for help and Martin continued beating on him, then I think it is self defense.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

A fight happened. That much we know. I dont think its possible to know with 100% certainty who threw the first punch or push. We have Zimmermans account. Zimmermans injuries match his account. If Martin was slamming Zimmermans head into the ground and Zimmerman was screaming for help and Martin continued beating on him, then I think it is self defense.

Well yeah, if Z didn't start it and if Z shoots M right then not after M stops waling on him.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

I am saying that the wording isn't conclusive. It's not conclusive that the reporter is trying to tell us that the whole story has been corroborated.

But,. if you will note, the article you link to cite this article as it's source:
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Which is the one I posted here earlier.

the article which is cited as source info for teh article you cited say this:

"...and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."
​

Which, imho, is markedly different than saying that witnesses had corroborated the entire series of events or even saw who started it.

of course, ymmv

I think what really matters here is does something negate what Zimmerman said? If you were to take Zimmermans account of what happened as truth, do you think he acted in self defense?

If you (or the prosecution) cannot negate Zimmermans story and if the law says that according to Z's account that he acted within the law, then he should not be arrested.

 

[Paratrooper]

Why would he need to defend himself from a 5'9" 250 pound man. He could have simply ran away preventing a scuffle from even happening.

Secondly why would someone that is 150-160 attempt to engage in a fistfight with someone so much larger unless he had the element of surprise?

Keep in mind that if Zimmerman had made 40+ calls to report suspicious persons without shooting them, he was able to display some level of restraint.

Now that we know Martin was suspended for marijuana, maybe he was selling it/ or buying it?

That could be considered suspicious.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

So when someones following you and he turns away to go back their vehicle, you punch them, jump on them and start slamming their head in the street? Someone needs some anger management. Jack Nicholson is probably offering some discounted rates.

Zimmerman said that Trayvon struck first with a punch to his nose. How does one get punched in the nose if their back is to the one throwing the punch?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

I think what really matters here is does something negate what Zimmerman said? If you were to take Zimmermans account of what happened as truth, do you think he acted in self defense?
If you (or the prosecution) cannot negate Zimmermans story and if the law says that according to Z's account that he acted within the law, then he should not be arrested.

The contention is that the PD didn't look hard enough for evidence that might "negate Zimmermans story." I think that's the source of the community's displeasure. Who is watching the watchmen?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Zimmerman said that Trayvon struck first with a punch to his nose. How does one get punched in the nose if their back is to the one throwing the punch?

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.
​

​

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

how does having marijuana residue make someone a badass or a thug? That is just ignorant. I suppose I am badass thug too because I certainly had some empty weed bags on my in high school. :roll:

It was a response to someone early who claimed he was a thug becuase he had a facebook and was tall and got suspended because of this reason..
I was being saracastic.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why would he need to defend himself from a 5'9" 250 pound man. He could have simply ran away preventing a scuffle from even happening.

Secondly why would someone that is 150-160 attempt to engage in a fistfight with someone so much larger unless he had the element of surprise?

Perhaps he was 'standing his ground' as the State law advocates?
As to the second, a loaded gun and a belief in their own authority might overload their confidence level.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.
​

​

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

According to Buck, Zimmerman had turned away and was heading back tohis truck.

 

[buck]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

I am saying that the wording isn't conclusive. It's not conclusive that the reporter is trying to tell us that the whole story has been corroborated.

But,. if you will note, the article you link to cite this article as it's source:
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Which is the one I posted here earlier.

the article which is cited as source info for teh article you cited say this:

"...and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."
​

Which, imho, is markedly different than saying that witnesses had corroborated the entire series of events or even saw who started it.

of course, ymmv

No, with the clarification and source report, I think you are probably right. Just goes to show you just can't trust MSNBC.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

The contention is that the PD didn't look hard enough for evidence that might "negate Zimmermans story." I think that's the source of the community's displeasure. Who is watching the watchmen?

I think that is what started the communities displeasure.

This has morphed into a racial issue and is just growing. The truth is no longer relevant to many people. They only want to see a white guy shot a black kid and it ends there for them.

Even if you assume the police did not look hard enough, that doesnt mean Z is guilty. It may make his innocence seem suspicious, but that does not mean guilty. There is evidence to collaborate parts of Z's story, there is almost nothing to negate any of it.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

According to Buck, Zimmerman had turned away and was heading back tohis truck.

Was Buck a witness? Did he give a statement to police? If not, then because he said Z walked back to his truck really isnt relevant to the case. Or have you stopped discussing the events of that night and refocused yourself on trying to make Buck seem wrong?

 

[buck]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

According to Buck, Zimmerman had turned away and was heading back tohis truck.

He apparently did head back to his truck. So, when someone is following you, and they head back to their truck, do you chase them, punch them and start slamming their head into the ground? If so, try anger management.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Perhaps he was 'standing his ground' as the State law advocates?
As to the second, a loaded gun and a belief in their own authority might overload their confidence level.

If you're outside of your home, you can't "stand your ground" until you've been attacked.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If you're outside of your home, you can't "stand your ground" until you've been attacked.

Yes. And Martin perhaps thought he was being attacked by Zimmerman.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Was Buck a witness? Did he give a statement to police? If not, then because he said Z walked back to his truck really isnt relevant to the case. Or have you stopped discussing the events of that night and refocused yourself on trying to make Buck seem wrong?

It's relavent because it was one of Bucks' posts that I was responding to. You don't have to like that but you do have to live with it.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

It's relavent because it was one of Bucks' posts that I was responding to. You don't have to like that but you do have to live with it.

That I do.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The thing about M not heading straight away home is that M may not have known that Z was no longer in a vehicle.

If M thought he was trying to get away from someone in a car, it make more sense to double back, hide and do things like that rather than try to out run the vehicle.

Z didn't get out until after M started running.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

According to Buck, Zimmerman had turned away and was heading back tohis truck.

Actually according to Zimmerman

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

Read more:

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

He apparently did head back to his truck. So, when someone is following you, and they head back to their truck, do you chase them, punch them and start slamming their head into the ground? If so, try anger management.

Again ... how did Trayvon punch Zimmerman in the nose if his back was to him? And they were talking before Trayvon punched him in the nose ... why would Zimmerman turn his back on Trayvon?

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law enforcement | NJ.com



Here is part of the backstory:

Under ‘suspicion’: The killing of Trayvon Martin - PostPartisan - The Washington Post

The article you link to deliberately, knowing begins with the most grotesque of deliberate lies. It begins by claiming Martin was begging for his life, then also asserting this because he was a black male - putting in the worn out picture of Martin from years early to portray him as a child.

IN FACT, BOTH eye witnesses stated it was Zimmerman begging for his life. Even Martin's own father said it was Zimmerman, not Martin, pleading for someone to help him.

But the editorialist wants a race war so the MSNCB African-American commentator lies, deliberately, knowingly completely...

Thus the link is worthless. Since he starts with the most grotesque possible lie swinging into he's-black-and-oppressed because all African-Americans are, and with the lie of claiming it was Martin begging for his life, continues. Since it begins as a lie piece, I assume it all a lie and exactly opposite the truth.

There is no evidence that Martin was just walking down the street and the telephone call with his girlfriend for how long it was proves he was NOT walking home. But it doesn't matter. What matters is the according to both eye witnesses - one known to be African-American - Martin was NOT walking down the street. He was felony aggravated assaulting Zimmerman and attempting to murder Zimmerman by repeatedly smashing his head into the concrete sidewalk - BY THE ROAD where Zimmerman said he was.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Again ... how did Trayvon punch Zimmerman in the nose if his back was to him? And they were talking before Trayvon punched him in the nose ... why would Zimmerman turn his back on Trayvon?

Reposting for you.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes. And Martin perhaps thought he was being attacked by Zimmerman.

You have to be attacked, not think you're about to be attacked.c