• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Ding, ding! We have a winner from the Right on this one. Finally.


Hey! :( What am I? Chopped liver? :lol::2wave::2wave:


j-mac
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I think at this point, I'd have to say that just by listening we don't know who was screaming for certainty, Zim says it was him, while handcuffed in the back of the squad car, and Treyvon's mother says that that was Trey's screams. Injuries to the back of the head, and nose on Zim are inconclusive alone as to who attacked whom, as are the grass stains. Treyvon was reported by Sanford police as also a resident of the neighborhood, so obviously there is nothing suspicious about him being on the sidewalk at 7:30pm at night for God's sake. Zim seems to have a history of 911 abuse IMHO, reporting everything from an open garage door, which is ok, to a pothole in the road, which isn't. Treyvon being a handful in school, and currently being suspended are not the issue here, and have no bearing, all I would say on that is that he's 17 years old...Anyone with children all either know, or have a child which rebel's a little at that age, doesn't warrant a death sentence.

Over all, I think I'd still have to say that this is a tragic case of Zimmerman taking a course that was fueled by adrenaline, over confidence due to carrying a gun, maybe misinterpretation of what his duties of NW were, and what the meaning of meet force with EQUAL force means.

Zimmerman pursued this young man, hunted him down, got into a fight, and was losing that fight and used his gun to gain advantage killing Treyvon. That is what we know. And based on that, Zimmerman is in the wrong here. Now it isn't in my mind murder, but it is negligent homicide.

j-mac


Just two points of clarity:

1)Martin's father indicated that it was not his son calling for help. At least prior to the case blowing up, he may have since changed his mind, but his initial statements are more likely to be the truth.

2) he wasn't actually calling 911. He was calling the non-emergency line to report most if not all of the situations. We have it in Chicago, and it is specifically used for things like reporting pot-holes, etc. Apparently it's across the counrty now.

311 Non-Emergency Number

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/316817/20120320/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-florida-shooting.htm
It was dark and raining when Zimmerman first spotted the black teenager, wearing a hooded sweatshirt, and called a non-emergency dispatcher.
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Just two points of clarity:

1)Martin's father indicated that it was not his son calling for help. At least prior to the case blowing up, he may have since changed his mind, but his initial statements are more likely to be the truth.

2) he wasn't actually calling 911. He was calling the non-emergency line to report most if not all of the situations. We have it in Chicago, and it is specifically used for things like reporting pot-holes, etc. Apparently it's across the counrty now.

311 Non-Emergency Number

George Zimmerman: 7 Things To Know About Trayvon Martin Florida Shooting


Ok, really we don't know for sure, and I didn't see the distinction listed in the official records.


j-mac
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't this happen about a month ago? The first I heard Sharpton speaking about it was last week...seems late in the game to me but I could be wrong.

I thought Sharpton talked about this on his TV show right after it happened.I will look for info on this.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I thought Sharpton talked about this on his TV show right after it happened.I will look for info on this.


Local news carried it at the time of occurrence, with follow up.
ABC covered it a week later, on a National front.

This was covered but we should remember, that most situations like this happen every day without National hub bub...This one has elements of those looking to cash in, either publicity wise, or politically are driving this, and are misrepresenting much. They also, are tainting the outcome of justice due to their agenda's.

j-mac
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Just two points of clarity:
1)Martin's father indicated that it was not his son calling for help. At least prior to the case blowing up, he may have since changed his mind, but his initial statements are more likely to be the truth.
George Zimmerman: 7 Things To Know About Trayvon Martin Florida Shooting
IIRC, the father said that it didn't sound like Trayvon until the audio was cleaned up.


Trayvon Martin 911 tapes: Who screamed for help before shot rang out? - Yahoo! News
Police also said that Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, told them the voice pleading for help was not Trayvon. The family claims the police are lying, and pointed out that once the audio quality was cleaned up the father said that the voice did indeed belong to his son.
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

IIRC, the father said that it didn't sound like Trayvon until the audio was cleaned up.

.....and the family lawyer-ed up.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Mis-characterization, hyperbole and outright falsities.
The evidence confirms it was Zimmerman screaming.

What?
The "evidence" what evidence? that Zimmermans family said , "no no that was him screaming"?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

What?
The "evidence" what evidence? that Zimmermans family said , "no no that was him screaming"?

first, Zimmerman's testimony is evidence

second, it matches an eye witness that gave a sworn statement matching his claim.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Ok, really we don't know for sure, and I didn't see the distinction listed in the official records.

Actually it does. Look at call source. Most of the sources are not 911. Most of those that that are 911, could be considered needing immediate attention.
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

IIRC, the father said that it didn't sound like Trayvon until the audio was cleaned up.


Trayvon Martin 911 tapes: Who screamed for help before shot rang out? - Yahoo! News
Police also said that Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, told them the voice pleading for help was not Trayvon. The family claims the police are lying, and pointed out that once the audio quality was cleaned up the father said that the voice did indeed belong to his son.

The father's initial statment matches Zimmerman's initial statement and that of an eye-witness that was there. I just can't think of any reason the father would have to change the story afterwards...
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The father's initial statment matches Zimmerman's initial statement and that of an eye-witness that was there. I just can't think of any reason the father would have to change the story afterwards...

I can't think of a reason a police detective would have corrected an eye witness's account that it was Martin yelling for help. Yet the eye witness claims he did...
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I can't think of a reason a police detective would have corrected an eye witness's account that it was Martin yelling for help. Yet the eye witness claims he did...

I don't know. I suspect that will come out in the investigation. But, from what I gather, that eye witness didn't really see it from as near or as clearly as the eyewitness that was actually near the scene. Certainly not as close as Zimmerman was.

Zimmerman claiming that he was calling for help from the very beginning of answering questions, really does provide credibility to him. Had he not mentioned that he was calling for help at the scene but only later after the evidence came out, that would have hurt his credibility greatly.

He really didn't have much time to make-up a story from when the shooting occured to the time the cops arrived. He probably wouldn't have been completly in his right mind so close to teh shooting anyway.
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't know. I suspect that will come out in the investigation. But, from what I gather, that eye witness didn't really see it from as near or as clearly as the eyewitness that was actually near the scene. Certainly not as close as Zimmerman was.

Zimmerman claiming that he was calling for help from the very beginning of answering questions, really does provide credibility to him. Had he not mentioned that he was calling for help at the scene but only later after the evidence came out, that would have hurt his credibility greatly.

Hope ya'll noticed my thread about 48 Hours doing a special on this tonight -- 6 PM Central. That should be eye-opening.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Hope ya'll noticed my thread about 48 Hours doing a special on this tonight -- 6 PM Central. That should be eye-opening.

I didn't. I'll have to DVR it, since I won't be home. TY.

My big concern about the special, and really all of the media coverage, is that there is such a rush to judgement against Zimmerman, that so much of the media reporting is incorrect or contradictory. It would probably be best if the media would just stay out of it and let the investigation continue - but ratings and all... I really believe that it's possible that the investigators could be pressured into making charges that may not be warranted. Just think of the chaos and riots if they don't.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The father's initial statment matches Zimmerman's initial statement and that of an eye-witness that was there. I just can't think of any reason the father would have to change the story afterwards...
I'm not saying anything but what it's said the father said. Trying to add information.
.
I don't have any evidence that the father is lying about why he changed his mind about the voice on the tape.
.
Btw, which witness is it? One of the 9-11 calls? Or a different one? I forget which is which and who said what exactly.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't know. I suspect that will come out in the investigation. But, from what I gather, that eye witness didn't really see it from as near or as clearly as the eyewitness that was actually near the scene. Certainly not as close as Zimmerman was.

Zimmerman claiming that he was calling for help from the very beginning of answering questions, really does provide credibility to him. Had he not mentioned that he was calling for help at the scene but only later after the evidence came out, that would have hurt his credibility greatly.

He really didn't have much time to make-up a story from when the shooting occured to the time the cops arrived. He probably wouldn't have been completly in his right mind so close to teh shooting anyway.

It is important to aclnowledge that the "story" was already half-written.

There is only one "plot" where you walk away from shooting someone dead.

Self defense. You were attacked and defending yourself.

It will be interesting to see an actual timeline of when all the various calls were made.

We don't know for sure what the conversation with the girl consisted of, but there is a record of the call and its duration, and the gunshot has a "time stamp" too, in one of the 911 calls.

The fact that what the girl relates is exactly what one would expect the to men to say to each other lends credibility. And the fact it apparently came out after Zim was released that a call was in progress immediately prior to the physical confrontation provides an opportunity to validate Zims statements, as he was unaware of an "ear-witness" at the time he made his statement.

Of course, we dont have the full transcript of zims statement. But I haven't heard any mention of him having had a verbal exchange with Martin. As far as I can tell his story is that his first direct contact with Martin was when he was attacked from behind.

No "he suddenly turned and asked me why I was following him and I said "what are you doing around here" and he just jumped me as I tried to get back to my car" or something to that effect.

No mention of the exchange related as having occurred by the GF. (That we know of yet. It may have been related in the 2 hour interview).

I think this element will be pivotal in determining what actually happened. As the initiator of the physical altercation is the responsible party.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

No "he suddenly turned and asked me why I was following him and I said "what are you doing around here" and he just jumped me as I tried to get back to my car" or something to that effect.

No mention of the exchange related as having occurred by the GF. (That we know of yet. It may have been related in the 2 hour interview)..

Very possible that I am not understanding, but what you indicated Zimmernman said seems to match whhat the GF said...

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

In one of the earlier reports of the GF's conversation, she did indicate there was a push, followed by another push (when Martin's headset fell off). Seems this would be a push from Martin and most likely a responding push by Zimmerman. So, that doesn't contradict anything that Zimmerman stated, either. From what I can tell... Obviously just a guess...
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I'm not saying anything but what it's said the father said. Trying to add information.
.
I don't have any evidence that the father is lying about why he changed his mind about the voice on the tape.
.
Btw, which witness is it? One of the 9-11 calls? Or a different one? I forget which is which and who said what exactly.

I'm not sure, he was on the news. I really didn't listen to all of the 911 calls, so it may have been one of them for all i know.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I'm not sure, he was on the news. I really didn't listen to all of the 911 calls, so it may have been one of them for all i know.
Hmm. Hard to tell if you got the story correct then.

You know how human memory is.

Does anyone else know of the witness that buck is talking about and where we can fin what that witness said?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Ok, that is what I thought....
Tell me, why should I have to run from a criminal?
I guess you shouldn’t run from a criminal that you’ve convicted, you should execute him just like Zimmerman did. Right?
SYGL doesn't apply in this case, that like I said before is just the excuse that the shooter is using.
The police in the country of Florida did determined that SYGL does apply in the shooting they responded to.
Why would anyone say it didn’t apply at the time of the shooting? It’s only now that people are saying that.
Oh, and just so you know, we have the same law here in SC. I think it is a proper law for law abiding citizens.

j-mac

It can work for outlaws too, it works for everybody. It’ll just change the culture a bit. But some, like me don’t want that culture change.
 
Last edited:
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Hmm. Hard to tell if you got the story correct then.

You know how human memory is.

Does anyone else know of the witness that buck is talking about and where we can fin what that witness said?

It really asn't so difficult to find it. He was a witness that talked to the police, and his statement collaberated Zimerman's:
Anonymous Witness Police Used Tells Orlando Station Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman | Mediaite



Tampa Bay’s Fox 13 reported Friday that the witness, who agreed only to be identified as “John,” saw the struggle and it was his testimony the police used to let Zimmerman go free (John spoke to Fox 13′s Orlando Affiliate, Fox 35 on February 27th). His statements to the cops were instrumental because Sanford police say those screams you hear, the anchor notes, are Zimmerman’s and not Martin’s. Says John: “When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't know. I suspect that will come out in the investigation. But, from what I gather, that eye witness didn't really see it from as near or as clearly as the eyewitness that was actually near the scene. Certainly not as close as Zimmerman was.

Zimmerman claiming that he was calling for help from the very beginning of answering questions, really does provide credibility to him. Had he not mentioned that he was calling for help at the scene but only later after the evidence came out, that would have hurt his credibility greatly.

He really didn't have much time to make-up a story from when the shooting occured to the time the cops arrived. He probably wouldn't have been completly in his right mind so close to teh shooting anyway.

Zimmerman is trying to avoid a murder charge and conviction. Everything he says must be looked at with that in mind. He is far from an objective witness providing impartial information.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He is far from an objective witness providing impartial information.

How about John, the anonymous withness, is he far from impartial also? Seems like the only people you think are impartial are the parents (who have been changing their statements regarding Martin's suspension and whose voice was heard on the tape calling for help) and Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom