Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

j-mac said:

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Over all, I think I'd still have to say that this is a tragic case of Zimmerman taking a course that was fueled by adrenaline, over confidence due to carrying a gun, maybe misinterpretation of what his duties of NW were, and what the meaning of meet force with EQUAL force means.

Zimmerman pursued this young man, hunted him down, got into a fight, and was losing that fight and used his gun to gain advantage killing Treyvon. That is what we know. And based on that, Zimmerman is in the wrong here. Now it isn't in my mind murder, but it is negligent homicide.

j-mac

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buck said:

It really asn't so difficult to find it. He was a witness that talked to the police, and his statement collaberated Zimerman's:
Anonymous Witness Police Used Tells Orlando Station Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman | Mediaite

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haymarket said:

Zimmerman is trying to avoid a murder charge and conviction. Everything he says must be looked at with that in mind. He is far from an objective witness providing impartial information.

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joko104 said:

I don't think racism factored into this, but if it did, I suspect the one motivated by racism and towards violence was Martin, not Zimmerman.

Initially, in the 911 call, Martin turned towards and approached Zimmerman glaring at him as he did, but seeing/hearing Zimmerman talking to the police, Martin turned and ran around the corner, but then according to the call to his girlfriend he stopped running.

Seeing Zimmerman no longer on the phone, he physically violently assault Zimmerman - a minority Latino on a majority African-American commmunity - and continued assaulting Zimmerman after slugging the chubby Latino minority old guy (to him) down to the ground.

I suspect that while Zimmerman was screaming for someone to help him, Martin was struggling with Zimmerman for the gun, who to that point had not displayed or drawn it. Yet that is one aspect of the struggle that would favor Zimmerman. Heavy people generally are slower and Zimmerman seems not particularly fit, but heavy people are strong from carrying their weight.

At that point I think it became only a question of which one died. If Martin could turn the gun on Zimmerman, Zimmerman dies. If Zimmerman could turn the pistol on Martin, Martin died.

Martin died.

This didn't happen because a civilian watchmen was doing what they do. It happened because Martin wanted to and believed he could beat the crap out of an pudgy older Latino guy who had called the police on him. I don't think race came into it, but if it did, it most likely Martin a racist against Latinos leading him to charge and assault Zimmerman.

Despite all the words claiming Martin was an angelic child with his Skittles, that he attacked Zimmerman and continued assaulting him (according to TWO eye witnesses) shows he is anything but a sweet young 17 year old teen.

He could have just gone home or cursed Zimmerman out. But he could not beat the s...t out of Zimmerman as much and as long as he wanted to. Anyone who knows about fights knows its not like in the movies with no residuals. Fights leave people crippled, brain damaged and dead - whether deliberate or not. That Zimmerman had a wound on the back of his head, not just a slug in the nose, proved the assault of Martin was extremely violent and of life threatening natures.

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Wiggen said:

What part of '****ing coon' don't you understand?

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Wiggen said:

What part of '****ing coon' don't you understand?

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Porchev said:

If Zimmerman was the aggressor, and if the kid fought back and started having the upper hand on his attacker it doesn't matter what size they are or what color they are. The kid had a right to defend himself against an attacker. Zimmerman is a man obsessed with law enforcement and apparently loves the power, but not the responsibility. If Zimmerman stalked and attacked this kid (then shot and killed him during the fight), he should go to jail.

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rocket88 said:

Ding, ding! We have a winner from the Right on this one. Finally.

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j-mac said:

I think at this point, I'd have to say that just by listening we don't know who was screaming for certainty, Zim says it was him, while handcuffed in the back of the squad car, and Treyvon's mother says that that was Trey's screams. Injuries to the back of the head, and nose on Zim are inconclusive alone as to who attacked whom, as are the grass stains. Treyvon was reported by Sanford police as also a resident of the neighborhood, so obviously there is nothing suspicious about him being on the sidewalk at 7:30pm at night for God's sake. Zim seems to have a history of 911 abuse IMHO, reporting everything from an open garage door, which is ok, to a pothole in the road, which isn't. Treyvon being a handful in school, and currently being suspended are not the issue here, and have no bearing, all I would say on that is that he's 17 years old...Anyone with children all either know, or have a child which rebel's a little at that age, doesn't warrant a death sentence.

Over all, I think I'd still have to say that this is a tragic case of Zimmerman taking a course that was fueled by adrenaline, over confidence due to carrying a gun, maybe misinterpretation of what his duties of NW were, and what the meaning of meet force with EQUAL force means.

Zimmerman pursued this young man, hunted him down, got into a fight, and was losing that fight and used his gun to gain advantage killing Treyvon. That is what we know. And based on that, Zimmerman is in the wrong here. Now it isn't in my mind murder, but it is negligent homicide.

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Excon said:

No evidence contradicts Zimmerman's.
So why are you engaging supposition that contradicts the evidence we have?

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TheDemSocialist said:

What?
The "evidence" what evidence? that Zimmermans family said , "no no that was him screaming"?

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ric27 said:

What the hell does that mean? The PD did not make a summary arrest based upon the facts/ evidence at the scene.

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MaggieD said:

I can't think of a reason a police detective would have corrected an eye witness's account that it was Martin yelling for help. Yet the eye witness claims he did...

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What if...? said:

It goes to the idea Zim put his hands on Martin to keep him from getting away.

Here in our little game of whodunnit.

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Thunder said:

no evidence that you wish you acknowledge, you mean.

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Excon said:

Wrong.
I have and will acknowledge actual evidence.

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MaggieD said:

Hope ya'll noticed my thread about 48 Hours doing a special on this tonight -- 6 PM Central. That should be eye-opening.

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What if...? said:

His testimony clarifies who was WINNING the fight but not who STARTED the fight.

Thus far, afaik, there are no witnesses to the start of the physical altercation. Only those who became aware as a result of the commotion.

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buck said:

Never indicated that it did. I only stated that the testimony indicated who was calling for help - Zimmerman. Which agrees with both Zimmerman's and the father's original account.

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Sheik Yerbuti said:

Once Zimmerman took off on foot to chase Travon in the dark because the teenager ran away from him, Zimmerman lost his claim to self defense.

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j-mac said:

You know what gets me, and was discussed earlier by another member, was that Zim said to the 911 operator that Martin was approaching him, then all the sudden he seemed to have turned and ran. Now no one has said it, and I realize that this is my pure speculation, but how much y'all wanna bet that Martin turned and ran because Zimmerman brandished his gun....?


j-mac

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Thunder said:

Zimmerman started the fight. Martin tossed his fat ass to the ground. Zimmerman started to cry for help, the coward that he is.

...and then he shoots his victim. Calling for help was a good call, as it got him a witness to his calls of "distress".

apparently, Zimmerman planned this out.

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j-mac said:

You know what gets me, and was discussed earlier by another member, was that Zim said to the 911 operator that Martin was approaching him, then all the sudden he seemed to have turned and ran. Now no one has said it, and I realize that this is my pure speculation, but how much y'all wanna bet that Martin turned and ran because Zimmerman brandished his gun....?


j-mac

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buck said:

Another thing I know, is that Zimmerman couldn't have planned it out. It all happened quickly, the cops arrived quickly since they were already on their way and no one is planning out a defense while getting their "fat ass tossed to the ground". You really have to make gigantic leaps to believe that.

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