SANFORD, Fla. – The fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin is bringing heated calls for the resignation of the local police chief, and the city's commissioners voted "no confidence" in the chief Wednesday night.
The commission voted 3-2 against Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee but can't fire him because the police chief reports to the city manager. City Manager Norton Bonaparte told the commissioners he would take their vote under advisement.
Earlier in the day, calls for firing Lee were met with standing ovations at an NAACP meeting here aimed at addressing outrage over the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon. The unarmed youth was shot Feb. 26 as he was returning to a gated community after buying candy at a convenience store.
Zimmerman was not instructed to stay inside of his car by the police or anybody else.
He was instructed by the procedures in place for neighborhood watchmen to avoid contact with a suspect.
I have not seen proof he did, though violating a neighborhood watch rule doesn't mean much. What evidence do you have that Zimmerman initiated the contact?
I am part of the criminal justice system. I am a supervisor, state, but Fish and Wildlife. Same authority as troopers generally, but different task areas. I train cops with many departments, specifically in firearms and other confrontational situations. There are many reasons I should not and would not make a good patrol officer or what people call "a cop." At my residence is a country/state prosecutor - area is domestic violence, sex crimes, and child abuse. Another resident also is an officer in my field. I oft do things differently than other officers, but that isn't uncommon in us backwaters and backwoods types. I could probably quickly list 50 to 100 terrible flaws in the Criminal Justice System in addition to lists of false myths about it.
The original construction of arrest and trials as in the Constitution for the most part no longer exists and mostly contradicted. The general goal was to not hold people in prison or jail until found not-guilty. The presumption of innocence used to have more reality to it.
That's pretty much what I understood they are supposed to do, which is why I couldn't figure out why this guy went to an elevated response in this case.Neighborhood Watch Manual
[TABLE="class:data1"][tr][td]REMEMBER:
Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.[/td][/tr][/table]
- page 22
If he saw some dude walking down the street lighting up a molotov cocktail maybe that would justify immediate interdiction.That's pretty much what I understood they are supposed to do, which is why I couldn't figure out why this guy went to an elevated response in this case.
LOL a trout detective.
OMG hilarious
smokey the bear
Got to correct you on one thing TD
it is "smokey bear" not smokey the bear. Smokey gets upset when people add "the"
Think you are confused with Da Bears:lol:
Is that where you learned to make up your own set of "facts" when the real events don't fit in neatly with your wishful thinking? You know, your own "facts" like Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman in the head and how Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt?I am part of the criminal justice system. I am a supervisor, state, but Fish and Wildlife. Same authority as troopers generally, but different task areas. I train cops with many departments, specifically in firearms and other confrontational situations. There are many reasons I should not and would not make a good patrol officer or what people call "a cop." At my residence is a country/state prosecutor - area is domestic violence, sex crimes, and child abuse. Another resident also is an officer in my field. I oft do things differently than other officers, but that isn't uncommon in us backwaters and backwoods types. I could probably quickly list 50 to 100 terrible flaws in the Criminal Justice System in addition to lists of false myths about it.
Absolutely in that case. At least yell "Stop now!" before but a kid walking down the street on a cell phone isn't exactly DEFCON 5.If he saw some dude walking down the street lighting up a molotov cocktail maybe that would justify immediate interdiction.
Is that where you learned to make up your own set of "facts" when the real events don't fit in neatly with your wishful thinking? You know, your own "facts" like Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman in the head and how Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt?
Yep! Wasn't until later that State troopers got the "Super Trooper" moniker.just going by what we used to call them back when I was a kid-mainly state troopers who wore the bear hat too
Not to be too picky but isn't DEFCON 5 the lowest state of readiness. Did you mean DEFCON 1?Absolutely in that case. At least yell "Stop now!" before but a kid walking down the street on a cell phone isn't exactly DEFCON 5.
I gotta give Joko credit. not in a million years would I have thought I'd be "liking" a bunch of your posts :mrgreen:
Could be. I was more pushing a point through than anything but whichever is the right answer works for me.Yep! Wasn't until later that State troopers got the "Super Trooper" moniker.
Not to be too picky but isn't DEFCON 5 the lowest state of readiness. Did you mean DEFCON 1?
A guy who was being attacked was yelling for help, when it appeared that no help was forthcoming he then used his firearm in self defense, once there stopped being a threat, he stopped yelling for help.um...why would a guy with a gun, be yelling for help?
I heard the recording.He may not be white but he's not black either and most certainly sounds racist. Did you hear him on the 911 call saying "****ing coons"?
:thinking:
Actually it isn't full of wind.Even assuming what we're hearing is "air rushing by the mic" are you saying the wind speed never changes? Or that one is always facing the correct direction for the mic to pick up the wind? That assertion is full of wind ...
I don't think you realize it, but you just admitted that you have a preconceived way of looking at things.Ok. Lets try another tack.
Nobody here knows what happened. Afaik, the only person who knows for sure is Zimmerman. And he's sticking to his story, so far.
I'm a pattern recognizer. I'm pretty good at "people". From what we have heard, Zimmerman is EXACTLY the kind of jackass who gets in peoples faces and throws his authority around (real or imagined). The kind who acts like such an ass that he gets his ass kicked. Which is PROBABLY what happened.
Now it is possible that Martin had a history of violence or a confrontational demeanor or some other factor that will cause me to alter my assessment.
But I don't think its gonna happen, and here's why:
This is a high profile firearm self defense case.
A Public Relations NIGHTMARE.
I promise you that as soon as this case drew national attention, an intensive investigation of Martin was launched. A standard crisis management response in PR. And the gun lobby has great PR people. If he was a "bad-egg" it would be all over the internet, but its not.
People who don't fight normally don't pick fights with much larger opponents in unfamiliar territory. I just can't get a model to run where an up-to-this-point good kid picked THAT time and place to go all "gangsta" on an innocent neighborhood watch guy. Just jump on him and start kicking this guys ass, when he's never jumped on anybody and kicked their ass before.
All it takes is a lucky punch in the face followed by falling back across the sidewalk to account for Zimmermans reported injuries. Hell, you could catch a guy with an elbow shrugging a hand off your shoulder. Heck, you might even start yellin like a little girl if some great big sucker grabbed ahold of you. Even a sissy fight could result a broken nose and an overweight person simply falling backwards.
Only Zimmerman knows, and if the truth will make him look like a jackass, he will never tell.
But it is FAR more likely that he is the responsible party. That had he not acted, nothing would have happened.
That Martin would have walked home and enjoyed his Skittles and iced tea while watching the game with his dad.
The course of his life was fatally altered by the actions of Zimmerman. There is NO evidence to the contrary. None. Martin was COMPLETELY innocent until Zimmerman acted as far as anyone knows.
He was just walking home from the store.
Please cite the law that says so.says who???Says who?Zimmermann had NO right and NO authority, to confront and question ANYONE!!!!!
Besides, your narrative is off.
Martin confronted Zimmerman first, as evidenced by the girlfriends statement.
It was only after this did he question martin.
says the law.
only LEOs have the right to stop & question a suspect.
anyone else doing it is illegally preventing a citizen form going on his way. its called unlawful imprisonment.
Neighborhood Watch Manual
[TABLE="class:data1"][tr][td]REMEMBER:
Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. They should report their observations of suspicious activities to law enforcement; however, citizens should never try to take action on those observations. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action based on observations of suspicious activities.[/td][/tr][/table]
- page 22
You do realize that it doesn't matter what he thinks, right? And apparently he doesn't even have the correct information about what happened to even form an opinion on the matter.Maybe the FBI investigation will conclude the same things that the authors of the bill in question have. I hope so.Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.
...
Zimmerman had no right to follow and confront Martin in the first place, Caranna noted.
...
This one is a case for a jury to decide. He should be arrested.
Here it is on YouTube.It was most likely the kid yelling for help.
[video]http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/03/21/tsr-zarrella-trayvon-martin.cnn[/video]
Note: It doesn't say he was attacked from behind as others have reported."Zimmerman's statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trevon"
There is nothing that says he couldn't maintain observance until the police arrived.I'm pretty sure Zimmerman (as other neighborhood watch captains) are aware of a list of easy guidelines (local PD) that...***If you see someone in your neighborhood (possible gated community) that you don't recognize, call us. There is no harm in us (cops) talking to them and ascertaining their identity and purpose in the area*** Its plain and simple to follow
Anything further than calling, giving description and location is NOT advisable
Cops take over...talk and de-escalate the situation before it gets to the point of acting out
Zimmerman must have known this
That was basically the last thing he told the 911 operator, but definitely not the last thing we heard from him.The last thing we heard from Zimmerman was that Martin was running away.
More biased disinformation.What makes more sense? 28 year old pudgy Zimmerman, self appointed community watch captain, shoots a 17 year old resident of his community
You might want to check the evidence again.He was in his car. Trayvon was running away from him. The only way there was contact, which occurred away from Zimmerman's car, is if Zimmerman got out of his car and went after him.
There is no evidence that he "chased" him.I chase no one. Zimmerman chased Trayvon. There is no other way there could have been a confrontation between them unless Zimmerman, against neighborhood watch procedures, went after him. Even according to Zimmerman, Tray was running away.
Is that where you learned to make up your own set of "facts" when the real events don't fit in neatly with your wishful thinking? You know, your own "facts" like Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman in the head and how Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt?
Is that where you learned to make up your own set of "facts" when the real events don't fit in neatly with your wishful thinking? You know, your own "facts" like Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman in the head and how Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt?
You do realize that it doesn't matter what he thinks, right? And apparently he doesn't even have the correct information about what happened to even form an opinion on the matter.
All that should matter is if Zimmerman's actions are within the letter of the law.
If they are, he will be cleared.
If not, he will be found guilty of a crime.
(the video)
It does not establish that "it was most likely the kid yelling for help."
What it does establish is one of Zimmerman's statements to the police.
Note: It doesn't say he was attacked from behind as others have reported.
There is nothing that says he couldn't maintain observance until the police arrived.
If he saw some dude walking down the street lighting up a molotov cocktail maybe that would justify immediate interdiction.
A guy who was being attacked was yelling for help, when it appeared that no help was forthcoming he then used his firearm in self defense, once there stopped being a threat, he stopped yelling for help.
Yeah, so just why would he be yelling for help?
Ahh - how about he didn't want to resort to using his firearm first.
You all have your minds so set that Zimmerman is at the wrong that you are overlooking the simplest explanations that fit the evidence.
I heard the recording.
The first time I listened with no expectation I heard "punk".
After being told what to listen for I heard "coon".
Just recently when reviewing the 911 call and not specifically listening for that section I heard "punk" again.
It appears that many others have the same experience.
It needs much more analysis from qualified individuals before it has any purposeful meaning.
Most on this forum are claiming that neighborhood watch actions are illegal aggression. And we are in the world of the anti-gun-rights crowd on this forum, though some will deny it.
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