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Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Indeed, under Florida they have to prove it was 100% absolutely impossible and impossible there was any other legitimate reason Zimmerman fired too.
I thought the standard was to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, not "100% absolutely impossible"

Where are you getting your legal info?
You're posting a number of erroneous things. So double check your sources.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

you are going to send a man to jail for defending himself?
prove he didn't
imho, leaving the safety of your vehicle to pursue someone who is fleeing is different that defending oneself.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I thought the standard was to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, not "100% absolutely impossible"

Where are you getting your legal info?
You're posting a number of erroneous things. So double check your sources.

The standard in Florida is stricter than that. It also adds to the exclusion of any other possibility. Remember the Casey Anthony case?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

imho, leaving the safety of your vehicle to pursue someone who is fleeing is different that defending oneself.

And slugging someone knocking him/her to the ground isn't "innocently walking home." A person isn't shot in the chest standing over someone he slugged and knocked down while "fleeing."
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If you believe this ^ then you're missing the point.
It's not about deciding that he's guilty. It's about him facing an accounting for what he has done.
Having his day in court is what people think should happen.
It's the whole lack of charges being filed that is preventing Zimmerman from getting his day in court,.

People want Zimmerman to be tried.


So we're back to your theory that the Sanford PD just haven't gotten around to interviewing Zimmerman and gathering evidence in the past few weeks?

No, some people want Zimmerman immediately put in jail, not just tried.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Another way to not be shot when someone is watching you is to not charge the person slugging and kicking him.

Because the goal and constantly stated political goal is reducing gun-rights, the media continues to rather deliberately lie of what the issue of this matter is. It is NOT "standing your ground." Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground. He was on the ground with a bloody nose and bloody head - him on the ground not just his word but that of the only eye witness, a 13 year old African American boy out with his dog.

Zimmerman's defense has already been announced. It is not the false and even absurd claim of "standing your ground" of media in their anti-gun crusade. It is simply "self defense." That Martin rushed him, hit Zimmerman in the face, possibly was kicking Zimmerman and trying to get Zimmerman's gun as Zimmerman shouted out for help. That is what the Defense will claim.

Apparently the Justice Department's claim is that Zimmerman was following Martin, so therefore Martin had a right to violently assault Zimmerman, take Zimmerman's gun and kill Zimmerman with it because if you follow someone you are "an aggressor" that the other person is allowed to violently attack and kill to stop being followed.

More importantly, if they keep claiming that a white guy (that Zimmerman isn't) racially profiled an African-American "child" coming back from a candy store - running that little child down shooting him in the back as the little boy desperately tried to get away - they get to shout "racist!" a million time to try to get African-Americans to flock back to polls and maybe even some more restrictive gun laws.

This is a now political case of the Democratic White House v. George Zimmerman. Facts don't matter much anymore.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Your definition of suspicious really comes down to everyone outside not in a rush is suspicious. Hoodies are suspicious? Really? Walking in public is suspicious? Give me a break.

Stalking is also an aggressive act.

Zimmerman in all of his Neighborhood Watch Captain duties did not have a good arguement for why he decided to stalk this kid then kill him.
Zimmerman is not the Captain of any neighborhood watch, he is not even part of a neighborhood watch. He is a self appointed self proclaimed one man neighborhood watch. The police dispatcher he was on the phone with point blank told him not to follow Martin, instead he not only followed Martin but murdered him. All of these arguments being made here (those based upon actual facts and evidence) will get used when Zimmerman gets sued by Martin's family, as he inevitably will. I'd like to thank he will also be facing some criminal prosecution for his rash actions that resulted in the death of a innocent 17 year old.

I have to say I love how posters keep arguing what the facts in the case are, when the only thing anyone can argue here is what various press reports have said so far. The actual facts will come out in court.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The evidence and statements do not prove Zimmerman got out of his car and went after Martin. Posting that he did over and over doesn't prove it.

FACT: he got out of his car and went looking for Martin. Zimmerman admitted so on the phone.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have to say I love how posters keep arguing what the facts in the case are, when the only thing anyone can argue here is what various press reports have said so far. The actual facts will come out in court.

The facts should come out in court. As of now, there isn't going to be a court date because nobody's been arrested and charged with anything yet. What some seem to be arguing is that there's no need for a trial. I disagree. Zimmerman should be arrested and tried. If the trial results in his acquittal, so be it.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

FACT: he got out of his car and went looking for Martin. Zimmerman admitted so on the phone.
And just a reminder, joko104 nor any other poster here has a clue what the "evidence" is, just a lot of speculation based upon differing press reports.

The facts should come out in court. As of now, there isn't going to be a court date because nobody's been arrested and charged with anything yet. What some seem to be arguing is that there's no need for a trial. I disagree. Zimmerman should be arrested and tried. If the trial results in his acquittal, so be it.
Oh there will be a court date, you can count on that. As to whether or not there will a criminal court date, we shall see.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

FACT: he got out of his car and went looking for Martin. Zimmerman admitted so on the phone.

When he got out of the car he was no longer just keeping a "watch" on this individual. He realized it was a single smaller person than him who he could intimidate with his size and having possesion of a gun.
The kid was alone on a street with no vehicle to find safety in. He has this civilian with a gun coming at him. So what if there was a fight. When you feel your life is threatened by a thug with a weapon you might do anything to survive.

As for the BS about this being all about anti gun rights is just that BS. I think the kid should have in retrospect had a gun to protect himself rightfully against a thug with a violent history.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I haven't seen any evidence in all this noise that Zimmerman every accosted Martin. Apparently Zimmerman followed him in his car. The only face to face - according to the girlfriend, was Martin's first words asking why Zimmerman was following him? Following is not accosting. Zimmerman, at the scene, said Martin rushed him. Maybe not, but no evidence Zimmerman accosted Martin.

The "evidence" that Zimmerman accosted Martin is plain as day. Zimmerman got out of his car. Had he stayed in his car as the dispatcher suggested, Martin would still be alive.

The comment of anti-gun-rights, is you have no gun rights, at least not in public - if you can not use it UNLESS the person first has drawn a gun on you - and then it's irrelevant because you're dead, no? This also begins with MSNBC raging this case - that the assert facts mostly out of air or even just wrong - proves that the "stand your ground" laws and concealed laws are all evil and wrong. And people just march right along with it.

No one on this thread has taken this position. Not one post has said, "If they didn't have concealed carry, this wouldn't have happened," or, "If there wasn't a Stand Your Ground Law, this man would be in jail." The position most are taking is that Zimmerman was the aggressor; and he most certainly was. In fact, it's clear to me that, had Martin been armed and shot Zimmerman when he approached him, Martin would have been legally fine. Zimmerman did not stand his ground. Instead, he instigated the entire situation.

The ONLY "proof" Zimmerman is who approached (let alone "accosted") Martin on foot is talking heads on TV saying so. The raging and noise of declarations for political agendas had all but drown out both actual facts, actual unknowns, and what is actually relevant. Since this is openly part of an anti-gun-rights commentary orgy, they found a way to get maybe 80%+ percent of the public agreeing that anyone who shoots and unarmed person is automatically a murderer and anyone carrying a gun in public is a wacko.

The "proof" is quite clear, unless you are saying that Martin dragged Zimmerman out of the car. Mr. Wannabe Zimmerman got out of his car and either approached or followed Martin. That is NOT standing one's ground.

It is a brilliant anti-gun campaign tactic, bring charges of racism as a future reason to anti-gun laws - claiming the Latino who wasn't even sure Martin's race when he phoned in had "racially profiled" Martin.

Only in your own mind.

I could go on refuting your post forever. You are wrong. With the information we have available to us, something very wrong happened here. An unarmed young man with no criminal past...no trouble in school...who, by all accounts, was just an ordinary 17-year-old boy coming home from the store...was shot and killed by a wannabe copper as he was walking home. Had Zimmerman waited for LEOs to arrive as he was instructed to do by the dispatcher, that young boy would still be alive.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I am glad you checked again, because so did I and would have corrected myself.
I was reviewing from the part where he exits the truck and later says he ran.
But as it is, I stand corrected.
You are right, Treyvon was running before Zimmerman got out of his truck.



That was suspicious activity on Treyvon's part.
Treyvon was slowly walking around in the rain looking at homes. This raised Zimmerman's suspicions enough for him to call 911.
Then when Treyvon notices Zimmerman watching him, he putsu his hoodie on. More suspicious activity on his part.
And then running after seeing Zimmerman on the phone, even though it is non-threatening, it is even more suspicious, isn't it? Of course it is.

Even though Treyvon may have thought it was threatening behavior on Zimmerman's part, trying to keep him under observation until police arrived is actually not threatening behavior.


In reply, the emboldened part:

This is consistent with his statement and the girlfriend's.


No. Trying to keep him under observation is not chasing him.



Exactly.
Which is why I was say what was consistent with the evidence. Which Zimmerman's statements are.




Great. It will go towards establishing the truth, but since we don't know who it was, and can't assume it was either, it shouldn't have been brought up, should it?


No. Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Keeping someone under observation until police arrive is not aggressive behavior. No matter how many times you say it, it just isn't.
But confronting someone from behind as Treyvor did, is.

Trayvon was running away from Zimmerman because he was afraid of him. When Zimmerman went after him, even under the pretext of "observing" him, Zimmerman was chasing him.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The evidence and statements do not prove Zimmerman got out of his car and went after Martin. Posting that he did over and over doesn't prove it.

I honestly don't know how you could have missed it, it's been mentioned so many times, but Zimmerman was asked by the 911 operator if he was following Trayvon -- to which he replied, "yes."

The fact that Zimmerman shot Trayvon near Trayvon's father's home and not in Zimmerman's car is beyond self evidentiary that Zimmerman got out of his car and went after Martin.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Listening to everyone act like a police detective with their "evidence" being news reports is epic.

9780061787430-l.jpg
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Listening to everyone act like a police detective with their "evidence" being news reports is epic.

I thought the microphone wind noise analysis was a just a tad over the top myself. :rofl
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Listening to everyone act like a police detective with their "evidence" being news reports is epic.

9780061787430-l.jpg

that is precisely my position. We are really only hearing one side of the event because the police and Zimmerman initially felt they didn't need to wage a public legal battle.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

And slugging someone knocking him/her to the ground isn't "innocently walking home." A person isn't shot in the chest standing over someone he slugged and knocked down while "fleeing."

It is innocentlty walking home when a stranger is following you. At that point, Trayvon was within his right to defend himself.

And punching someone in the nose and knocking them down is NOT deadly force.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Mr. Wannabe Zimmerman got out of his car and either approached or followed Martin. That is NOT standing one's ground.

Bingo .
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If I was walking home from 7-11, in the middle of the night, and some strange guy was following me, I TOO, would stand my ground.

Trayvon stood his ground, confronted the guy who was following him, and died for it.

oh, but its alright, cause' as Zimmerman put it: "he was an asshole".
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This would be a pretty funny joke thread if there wasn't s dead kid involved.

The denials of the available evidence and then requests for more evidence is just ridiculous. Even without all of the other witnesses and the girlfriend's recount of her call with Martin, Zimmerman himself created the most damaging evidence with his own 911 call. No wonder Sandford PD didn't want to release the 911 tapes. Zimmerman hung himself with that call.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This would be a pretty funny joke thread if there wasn't s dead kid involved.

The denials of the available evidence and then requests for more evidence is just ridiculous. Even without all of the other witnesses and the girlfriend's recount of her call with Martin, Zimmerman himself created the most damaging evidence with his own 911 call. No wonder Sandford PD didn't want to release the 911 tapes. Zimmerman hung himself with that call.

Thanks Chief Wiggum. Your brilliant detective work of reading news stories and watching TV has been an inspiration to all of us. The law enforcement community can take solace in knowing that the news media can always be counted on to disseminate evidence accurately, punctually, and without editorial comments.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman is not the Captain of any neighborhood watch, he is not even part of a neighborhood watch. He is a self appointed self proclaimed one man neighborhood watch. The police dispatcher he was on the phone with point blank told him not to follow Martin, instead he not only followed Martin but murdered him. All of these arguments being made here (those based upon actual facts and evidence) will get used when Zimmerman gets sued by Martin's family, as he inevitably will. I'd like to thank he will also be facing some criminal prosecution for his rash actions that resulted in the death of a innocent 17 year old.

I have to say I love how posters keep arguing what the facts in the case are, when the only thing anyone can argue here is what various press reports have said so far. The actual facts will come out in court.

You obviously didn't catch the sarcasm of my neighborhood watch comment.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

And who know Skittles so dangerous to be able to knock someone to the ground, give him a bloddy nose and bloody back of his head. They really MUST outlaw Skittles.

That bloody nose was the kid standing his ground defending himself against an attacker.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

That bloody nose was the kid standing his ground defending himself against an attacker.

if that kid saw the gun on Zimmerman, as Zimmermann was approaching him, he had EVERY RIGHT to strike Zimmerman, as an act of self-defense.

if you follow me in your car in the middle of the night, and then follow me on foot with a gun, I too would punch you out to protect myself.
 
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