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False Prophets and Failed Prophesies

tosca1

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I just stumbled onto this 2 Thessalonians 2 verse in the New Testament.
To say that like an alarm had been set off, is an understatement.
For some reason I can't simply just let go of an issue that itches like a scab.

It feels more like suddenly there is this giant gavel in my hand, to hammer the point in.


To those who are still in their quest to seek the Truth,
to those who are confused by other teachings,
and to those who have been deceived by those teachings - it's not too late.

God, in His grace, had given us the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures to rely on for clarity.





If there are any other religions out there besides Jehovah's Witnesses, that prophesied the Second Coming of Christ had already happened......that is not from God.

Failed prophesy is the surest sign that you are following a false prophet. There can be no question about it.



Over the years, many people, and many religion had made prophesies about the Second Coming.
Even Isaac Newton had made a prediction that Christ Millennium would have begun in year 2000 (in his book Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John).

With so many false prophesies over the years, why am I singling out Jehovah's Witnesses?
Perhaps it's because of its aggressiveness? Perhaps, because of its high visibility?
Perhaps, because of its hostile method against the true Christian religion?
Perhaps, to reach out to those already deceived....
Perhaps, it is a serious threat in confusing and deceiving so many?
Christians know that Satan loves to sow confusion - that's how he undermines our faith.
Satan will use anyone, or anything, to draw us away from God.


Watch Tower Society unfulfilled predictions

Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society publications have made a series of predictions about Christ's Second Coming and the advent of God's Kingdom, each of which has gone unfulfilled. Almost all the predictions for 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918 and 1925 were later reinterpreted as a confirmation of the eschatological framework of the Bible Student movement and Jehovah's Witnesses, with many of the predicted events viewed as having taken place invisibly.
Further expectations were held for the arrival of Armageddon in 1975, but resulted in a later apology to members from the society's leadership.


1878: End of the harvest
1881: A revised end of the harvest
1914: The end of human rulership
1918: The new terminus
1925: Resurrection of the patriarchs
1975: The worldwide jubilee

7.1 Aftermath


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions



Then I stumbled on this verse this morning. This verse is so relevant to prophesies made by JW.
It seems to refer to JW.



2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.



There was an attempt to whitewash the failed prophesies:


English researcher George D. Chryssides has argued that although there have been some "unrealized expectations", changes in Watch Tower chronology are attributable more to changed chronological schemes, rather than to failed predictions.[1]

The Watch Tower Society has acknowledged errors, which it said helped "sift" the unfaithful from its ranks, but says adherents remained confident that "God's Word" had not failed.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions
 
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tosca1

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continuation.......


This is what Jesus had said about false prophets, and whitewashing:




Ezekiel 13

False Prophets Condemned

13 The word of the Lord came to me:
2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the Lord!

3 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and
have seen nothing!
4 Your prophets, Israel, are like jackals among ruins.

5 You have not gone up to the breaches in the wall to repair it for the people of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the Lord.

6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say,
“The Lord declares,” and expect him to fulfill their words.

7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though
I have not spoken?

8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord.

9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.

10 “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,

11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth.
12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?”

13 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury.

14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord.

15 So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash.
I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it,

16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.”’


 
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tosca1

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Ezekiel 13

16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her
when there was no peace
, declares the Sovereign Lord.”’



The following is an excerpt from an article written in 1993.
How many times did the Watch Tower and Awake, and other sources by JW, prophesied and given dates for peace???



"Peace and Security" in the Period 1899-1914 (What Pastor Russell Said (written by L. W. Jones, a close associate of Pastor Russell), page 529)

Peace and Security in 1918 (In 1917, when world developments indicated that the war, instead of culminating in world destruction, would soon come to an end, Russell's interpretation was changed by the new president, J. F. Rutherford. The war would end, he wrote, and be followed by "a short period of peace," when the people would say "Peace" in accordance with 1 Thess. 5:3. Soon after that the end would come. – The Watch Tower, Jan. l, 1917, pp. 4-5; Dec.1, 1917, p. 358)


"Peace and Security" in the 1930s(The "sudden destruction" expected to follow quickly upon the peace that commenced in 1918 turned out to be long in coming. In the middle of the 1930s, therefore, the time was due for a new application of the 'peace prophecy'. Thus, in 1936, Rutherford, in the booklet Choosing Riches or Ruin?, wrote that they "now" were in the period when the prophetic words in 1 These. 5:3 would be fulfilled. But prior to this imminent peace period, Rutherford predicted, the nations on earth, headed by religious leaders, would silence the preaching work of Jehovah's Witnesses. Thereafter they would proclaim "Peace and security" worldwide. – See also pages 291-294 of the book Enemies, published in 1937. On page 293 of the latter book Rutherford wrote:

"The old 'whore' (Roman Catholic Church) sitting upon the back of the beast may soon be expected to say: 'Peace and safety; we have silenced all opponents.' Then Jehovah's 'strange act' will begin, and sudden destruction comes upon her 'as travail upon a woman with child'.")


"Peace and Security" After 1945 (In 1939, however, World War II broke out without having been preceded by the predicted world peace. Once again, therefore, Rutherford had to postpone the peace period. In 1940 he foretold that the war would soon be interrupted by a brief peace period, immediately followed by God's war Armageddon. – The Watchtower August 15, 1940, page 246 and September 1, 1940, pp. 259, 260, 265, 266.

Early in 1942, in the middle of the war, Rutherford died. His successor, N. H. Knorr, stuck to this latest interpretation. In the booklet Peace - Can It Last?, published in 1942, Knorr explained that the peace period soon to come "will be very short-lived", as it would quickly be followed by the battle of Armageddon. (Page 26)

But the peace period that began after the end of the war in 1945 was not to become as "short-lived" as the Watch Tower Society had predicted! We are, in fact, still living in that peace period!

This peace period has now lasted over 45 years)


"Peace and Security" in the 1970s (During the greater part of the peace period after 1945 the relations between the great powers have been strained, a situation that has often been described as 'the cold war.' The 'peace prophecy' at 1 Thess. 5:3, therefore, was generally pushed into the background. But early in the 1970s a relaxation, a detente, of the strained relations occurred. This was greeted in the Watchtower publication as an important "sign", especially as the Society for a number of years had been stressing that 6,000 years since the creation of Adam would expire in 1975. "Strange events are taking place in our time," said the Awake! magazine of October 8, 1972., on page 4. This special issue on the theme "World Peace Coming – Will it Last?" contained a series of articles discussing the peace efforts. On page 9 the magazine referred to the prophecy about "Peace and Security" at 1 Thessalonians 5:3 and stated:

"This prophecy seems to be rapidly nearing its fulfillment."

Two books, both published in 1973, added more fuel to the expectations. True Peace and Security – From What Source? clearly related the detente in the world to the prophecy at 1 Thess. 5:3. And the other book, God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, said on page 364: )



1986: "The International Year of Peace"

Jehovah's Witnesses Predictions of "Peace and Security"


How many know about those dates of prophesied peace? The "vision of peace when there was no peace?"

And today as we speak - do you see a world in peace, or a world in turmoil?
Is this anywhere like the millennial Kingdom of Jesus that's described in the Bible?
 
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tosca1

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To those who are seeking The Truth.
To those who are confused.
And, to those who have been deceived.
Just take a moment to contemplate:


If I am to accept the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witness religion, I am first going to have to trust the source of this teaching. But how can I trust someone who claims to speak for God when they have been wrong about prior predictions?

There are a number of false predictions made either by Charles Russell, subsequent leaders of the church or the Watchtower Organization itself, including this limited sampling:

1886 The Millennial Reign Has Already Begun
“The outward evidences are that the marshalling of the hosts for the battle of the great day of God almighty, is in progress while the skirmishing is commencing.” (Watchtower reprints 1, page 817 January 1886)

1897 The Millennial Reign Began in 1874
“ Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874” (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, page 621)

1899 The Times Described in Revelation 16 Have Begun
“…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced.” (The Time Is at Hand, page 101 – 1908 edition)

1916 The Millennial Reign Began in 1873
“The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873.” (The Time Is at Hand, page ii)

1917 Armageddon Has Begun
“The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the scriptures.” (Pastor Russell’s Sermons, 1917, page 676)

1918 The Saints Will Be Resurrected in 1925
“Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection.” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89)

“1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies…We are standing at the very portals of that blessed time!” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 105)

1922 Jesus Will Return in 1925
“The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914.” (The Watchtower, September 1st, 1922, page 262)

1923 Jesus Will Return in 1925
“Our thought is that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge.” (The Watchtower, April 1st, 1923, page 106)

1925 Jesus May Return in 1925
“The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year.” (The Watchtower, January 1st, 1925, page 3)

1940 Armageddon is Eminent Within the Year
“The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet, because Armageddon is very near.” (Informant, May 1940)

1941 Jesus Will Return in Months
“Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon.” (The Watchtower, September 15th, 1941, page 288)

1946 Armageddon is “At the Door”
“…the disaster of Armageddon, greater than that which befell Sodom and Gomorrah, is at the door.” (Let God be True, 1946, page 194)

1968 Jesus Will Return in 1975
“Why are you looking forward to 1975?” (The Watchtower, August 15th, 1968, page 494)

“Just think , brothers, there is only 90 months left before 6000 years of mans existence on earth is completed… the majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out.” (Kingdom Mystery, March 1968, page 4)
10 Important Questions for the Jehovah's Witness Worldview | Cold Case Christianity



You still don't see? How many more false prophesies will have to be prophesied?
 

OlNate

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So you and Elvira are basically at war now, is that it? ;) :lol:
 

PoS

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Well Christianity is one big false prophecy since Jesus will never return.
 

tosca1

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So you and Elvira are basically at war now, is that it? ;) :lol:

I'm not at war with her, or any JW members.
I bear them no animosity, even if at times discussions get heated.
You and I had it worse, we nearly came to blows, remember? ;)

I admire her effort at spreading what she believes to be the "truth."
But that's all wasted effort, as explained. She should be spreading the true Word of God.
I'm trying to wake them up. Just pointing out why JW is a false religion.
 
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OlNate

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I'm not at war with her, or any JW members.

I admire her effort at spreading what she believes to be the "truth."
But that's all wasted effort, as explained. She should be spreading the true Word of God.
I'm trying to wake her up.


hehe.... Good luck. I'm sure this will end splendidly... hehe
 

tosca1

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Well Christianity is one big false prophecy since Jesus will never return.

Hey PoS, there's a reason why I created this under Theology Section.
 

tosca1

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hehe.... Good luck. I'm sure this will end splendidly... hehe

Playing "DEVIL'S" advocate again, Nate?
I think that's why they call trolls, trolls. You seem to be doing that often? :lol:

I don't care for luck. This thread is not about luck. Luck has nothing to do with this thread!
This is a "this-is-it-take-it-or-leave-it" thread! It's kinda hard to ignore what's been given.

I think Elvira and I will be fine.
 
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OlNate

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Playing DEVIL's advocate again, Nate? You seem to be doing that often? :lol:

I don't care for luck. This thread is not about luck. :uck has nothing to do with this thread!
It's a take-it-or-leave-it thread!

I think Elvira and I will be fine.

lol...no. Just chatting... lol... A guy's allowed to say hello as he's passing by, no?

Anyway, I'm Lutheran...that means that despite the fact I know you're both wrong, I respect the virtue of grace too highly to say anything about it... ;) :lol:

Go git 'er!! haha
 

OlNate

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Join me! :) We both want her saved.

We can't save her. That's God's job. ;)

Neither can we declare her saved or unsaved, that's God's job too.

Guess all we can do is love her, and trust that God knows what he's doing. By the way, I say the same thing about you, my friend...and I say the same thing about myself. :)
 

tosca1

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We can't save her. That's God's job. ;)

Neither can we declare her saved or unsaved, that's God's job too.

I'm not saying we'll do the saving......I said, we want her saved.



Guess all we can do is love her, and trust that God knows what he's doing. By the way, I say the same thing about you, my friend...and I say the same thing about myself. :)


I love Elvira. I love you too, Nate. <hug>

Lol. We're starting to sound like a chick flick here....:lol:
 

Elora

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Join me! :) We both want her saved.

Take care of your own salvation and I'll take care of mine...I have found the truth, with Jehovah's help, from that I will not waver...;)

"But the one who has endured to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:13

"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?" Romans 10:13,14

Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved. I truly hope you will recognize that we are not disapproved." 2 Corinthians 13:5,6

In spite of your efforts to downgrade JW's, we have never claimed to be prophets of any sort nor will you find any written record claiming such...quite the contrary, so your efforts are futile...people who seek truth, instead of the lies you profess, will realize that...

Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)“The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”​—February 15, 1981, page 19.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993201?q=false+alarms&p=sen
 

tosca1

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Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect.



This is called, a whitewash.


Whitewash - to gloss over or cover up (Merriam/Webster)


Another whitewash by JW over failed prophecies are the "New Lights."


As recently as 2007, the Watchtower taught that a select group of 144,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses comprised the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45. (Watchtower, November 1, 2007, p. 30, emphasis added).

According to the Watchtower (i.e., the JW publishing corporation), these so-called “anointed Christians,” which number the 144,000 are unique in the following ways:

They rule and reign with Jesus in heaven
They partake of the bread and wine
Jesus is their exclusive mediator
They are born again

The Watchtower teaching argues that while the 144,000 were the “faithful and discreet slave” and responsible for dispensing “food at the proper time,” it is the “Governing Body” who represents the 144,000 and leads the worldwide organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

As of July 15, 2013, this is considered to be “old light” (i.e., no longer true) by the Governing Body. Rather than viewing the entire group of 144,000 as the “faithful slave,” it is the Governing Body alone who is the “faithful slave.”

“Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence,” (Watchtower, July 15, 2013, p. 22).

This issue of the Governing Body’s unique appointment as the “faithful and discreet slave” is one in which Christians should be encouraged to challenge JW’s. There is very little in which the JW can use to substantiate these new claims by the Watchtower. Therefore, if confidence in the leadership is questioned, this may create an excellent opportunity to share the gospel; but until then, JW’s will continue to believe anything that their leaders teach. Consequently, they will hold to the false gospel that the Watchtower’s message truly is.
https://carm.org/new-light-on-faithful-discreet-slave-watchtower




Old Light, New Light & Black Light

When the organization wrote prophecies in the Watchtower magazine that failed, they use the terminology of "new light" to explain it away.

The concept of New light is taken from Proverbs 4:18 "But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, That shines brighter and brighter until the full day."
Typical of JW almost complete lack of Bible knowledge, this verse is not speaking about prophecy or direct revelation from God, but the righteous man's increasing ability to live a holier life with age and experience.

New light cannot contradict old light. It often does with Jehovah's Witnesses
The fact that Jehovah's Witnesses actually swallow this "new light" explanation from the organization when prophecies fail is the ultimate testimony of their blind faith in false human organizations

We invite all Jehovah's Witness new converts to closely decide for themselves if "New light" adds to "old light" or flatly contradicts it.
Jehovah's Witness: Old Light, New Light & Black Light
 
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Elora

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This is called, a whitewash.


Whitewash - to gloss over or cover up (Merriam/Webster)

Ignoring the dates of these statements...duly noted...
 

tosca1

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T

The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)“
:shock:


when getting baptized, the Jehovah's Witnesses must acknowledge that they are identifying themselves with Jehovah's spirit-directed organization.
https://carm.org/is-jehovahs-witness-baptism-valid



So....if God is not the alleged inspiration behind JW -
which spirit is it that JW is referring to at that baptismal proviso??


Satan?
 
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<alt>doxygen

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The term "false prophet" is redundant.

Jesus (aka God to the trinitarians) made some predictions that did not come to pass. They tend to be brushed away by redefining "death" and other tricks. I would say those were "prophecies"(?)

Mark 9:1 is one...
 

tosca1

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Jesus (aka God to the trinitarians) made some predictions that did not come to pass. They tend to be brushed away by redefining "death" and other tricks. I would say those were "prophecies"(?)

Mark 9:1 is one...

It was fulfilled. Not long after either! The Transfiguration!



Mark 9

9 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”


The Transfiguration

2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

5 Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus.





Peter told of that incident as the fulfillment of Christ's promise to His followers.

2 Peter 1
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”


18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.





Jesus could also be referring to Christ manifesting the power of God's Kingdom at PENTECOST! That event marked the birth of the Church, when Christ ruled as king in the hearts of believers.



Acts 2
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.



Acts 22
17 “When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance
18 and saw the Lord speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ he said. ‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about me.’




Anyway - it's not comparable.

Lol. The prophecies made by JW were clear. There's no way you'd misunderstand what they meant!
They kept changing dates too, when they failed to happen!
 
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<alt>doxygen

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It was fulfilled. Not long after either! The Transfiguration!



Mark 9

9 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”


The Transfiguration

2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

5 Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus.





Peter told of that incident as the fulfillment of Christ's promise to His followers.

2 Peter 1
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”


18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.





Jesus could also be referring to Christ manifesting the power of God's Kingdom at PENTECOST! That event marked the birth of the Church, when Christ ruled as king in the hearts of believers.



Acts 2
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.



Acts 22
17 “When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance
18 and saw the Lord speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ he said. ‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about me.’




Anyway - it's not comparable.

Lol. The prophecies made by JW were clear. There's no way you'd misunderstand what they meant!
They kept changing dates too, when they failed to happen!

I've heard the Pentecost one before, and that one seems more straight forward than the other. But thanks for that first one. Something else to think about.

It sort of crosses with several other verses, there's one in Matthew and one in Luke, and I thing another ref in Mark. I'm not sure if your explanation satisfies all of them. Maybe that's the reason the Pentecost expl. gets more play?
 

tosca1

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I've heard the Pentecost one before, and that one seems more straight forward than the other. But thanks for that first one. Something else to think about.

It sort of crosses with several other verses, there's one in Matthew and one in Luke, and I thing another ref in Mark. I'm not sure if your explanation satisfies all of them. Maybe that's the reason the Pentecost expl. gets more play?


I'm more inclined to see the Transfiguration as the fulfillment. Although, it could very likely be both Transfiguration and Pentecost!

Mark 9 had said, "......some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

The narration of the Transfiguration came right after that.
It could mean the Transfiguration narrative is related to the first statement.
And, Peter spoke about that particular event in the mountain.



2 Peter 1
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.




"Some" likely refers to mean Peter, John and James.
The three apostles were eyewitnesses - they had seen! The usage of "Majesty" surely refers to royalty (Kingdom).

Jesus said .....that the Kingdom of God has come WITH power."



Both events (Pentecost/Transfiguration) displayed awesome power! It went beyond healing.
 
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tosca1

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Take care of your own salvation and I'll take care of mine...I have found the truth, with Jehovah's help, from that I will not waver...;)

"But the one who has endured to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:13

"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?" Romans 10:13,14

Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved. I truly hope you will recognize that we are not disapproved." 2 Corinthians 13:5,6

In spite of your efforts to downgrade JW's, we have never claimed to be prophets of any sort nor will you find any written record claiming such...quite the contrary, so your efforts are futile...people who seek truth, instead of the lies you profess, will realize that...

Jehovah’s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)“The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”​—February 15, 1981, page 19.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993201?q=false+alarms&p=sen



LIES!





Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record.




However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real kingdom of God. He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.

Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel’s work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the “prophet” commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God’s Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972241#h=7


---------------------------


Holy Spirit — The Force Behind the Coming New Order! (1976) p.148 ch.8 "Spirit of Life from God Entered into Them"

The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ's anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations...


-------------------------


Watchtower 1980 January 1 p.2 Page Two (inside front cover)

A WATCHTOWER enables a person to look far into the distance and announce to others what is seen. Likewise, this magazine, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, aids the reader to see what the future holds
 

tosca1

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In spite of your efforts to downgrade JW's, we have never claimed to be prophets of any sort nor will you find any written record claiming such.


It's foolish to stick out your neck until you do some research of your own publications! :lol:
It only proves you're simply regurgitating lies and propaganda! You don't know what you're talking about.

Furthermore, JW can fidget and squirm around, and deny they've made claims to be prophet(s) - but, you know the saying - if it walks and talks like a prophet - and it postures like a prophet - it proclaims itself as a prophet!
But it's more than just that posturing, isn't it? Here is the smoking gun!

They admitted to prophesiying!

I just gave you one written record above, taken from JW.org! (in red text). Here's another one!



Chapter 8

“Spirit of Life from God Entered into Them”

14 The time had now gone into the fifth year of the “conclusion of the system of things.” Jesus’ prediction, in Matthew 24:14, still had to be fulfilled: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) Christendom, with the bloodstains of world war, was not disposed or clean enough to fulfill that prophecy. What, then, was there to do? The spirit of God Almighty needed to go into action. It did so, not in behalf of bloodguilty Christendom, but in behalf of the seemingly ‘dead’ Kingdom witnesses. True to the picture in Revelation 11:11, “spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet.” The spring of the postwar year 1919 was the time for this revitalizing of them.

16 This revelation by the “spirit of the truth” put new life into the Kingdom preaching of the witnesses.

19 It was for such worldwide Kingdom preaching that “spirit of life from God” had entered into the suppressed witnesses in 1919 C.E.

20 That loudly proclaimed announcement, “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever,” deserves to be reechoed now on earth by Jehovah’s anointed witnesses. He took up his kingship of the world at the close of the Gentile Times in 1914.

The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ’s anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations for a witness in favor of God’s kingdom. Logically, then, they must be the ones upon whom God’s spirit has actually been poured out. That spirit is behind their worldwide preaching. Why argue about it?

23 After twelve years of such prophesying about God’s kingdom, the anointed remnant had become better informed upon Jehovah God, the heavenly Source of the outpoured spirit.

24 So it was no mere coincidence that on Sunday, July 26, 1931, at the international convention of the International Bible Students Association at Columbus, Ohio, the many thousands of conventioners wholeheartedly adopted a resolution for themselves to be called by a meaningful, Scriptural name. The name that the conventioners embraced by adopting the Resolution was “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” After the action taken at the international convention in Columbus, the congregations of the International Bible Students Association around the globe adopted a similar resolution. Thereby they declared themselves to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.




https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101976038#h=23



Taken from a very long, convoluted article.
 
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