False Prophets and Failed Prophesies

[<alt>doxygen]

From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die."
Kermit Zarley[/url]

"From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious" to Kermit Zarley...

Yeah, okay.

It's not "obvious". It, or some similar license of literary interpretation is necessary or Jesus made a prediction which did not come to pass.

I've also been told that the "death" referred to was spiritual death, and that "death" has not happened yet.

 

[Logicman]

I've also been told that the "death" (of Jesus?) referred to was spiritual death, and that "death" has not happened yet.

Got a scripture on that?

 

[tosca1]

As I said, LM, I'm a Matthew 6 kinda guy. If I have been party to anyone becoming a Christian, it was God's power, not mine, that facilitated that. I'm more concerned with not turning anyone away through my human tendency to mess things up.

Nate, you disagree with how I do things. A lot of people disagree with how I do things.
Have you asked God if it's right for you to be minding other people's business?
Like, my business?


My testimony about my forum style:

Believe it or not, some time ago, a Christian rebuked me for my style. I was told that I'm "the kind of Christian who turns people off Christianity."
That shook my confidence. I questioned myself. She could be right.
Maybe, I'm doing more harm than good.

So I asked God about it. I was in the shower, preparing to go to a Billy Graham workshop....I was talking to God in the shower.
I told Him that, "I'm afraid I'm turning people off." Verbatim. I asked for His guidance.
An hour later I was at the auditorium where the work shop was going to happen, reading pamphlets while waiting for the speaker.
I was engrossed with what I was reading that I didn't realize he was already onstage. Suddenly, his voice boomed (using a mic), his first statement was a question: ARE YOU AFRAID YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE OFF?

Well....he did his explanation using a volunteer, and a light switch.
To make the story short - the answer to me was, "No, you can't turn off those who are already off."
Of course, I was giddy! I even stood up and said something like - you answered what I just asked God!!

That incident happened in the morning. That night, I started doubting the message. Was it just a coincidence, God? I needed to be sure.
I opened my Bible, and the chapter gave me the confirmation that it wasn't a coincidence. It was about Jesus.....AGGRESSIVELY challenging and debating....quoting His REFERENCES (Old Testament)!
Something "clicked" inside me, and I just knew - it was a follow-up response to the one I had that morning.

So I have my own reason why I am what I am, in forums.


What can I say, OlNate? :shrug: Have you read my OP? The first few sentences in it?
Am I being guided to create this topic? I don't know.
All I know is I stumbled on a verse - and I felt compelled to create this!

But I know that it's not the first time God got involved in a forum!
At one time - on two separate forum - I was being unfairly clobbered by a pack of new atheists!
I opened the Bible, and the verse stuck with me - "Do not be afraid. I've got friends in the city."
On both forums, two posters came to give aid. One was an agnostic - believe it or not!
I never saw him before. After he berated the pack - he put them on the defensive - he abruptly disapppeared.


How do you know this topic is for the benefit of Elvira? I don't know!
For all I know....it's for the benefit of a silent reader whom God is reaching out to.
For all we know....it might turn out it could be for.......... you.


So.....you're a Matthew 6 kinda-guy.
MATTHEW 6. "GIVING TO THE NEEDY."

What's the most important need of a person that anyone can give?
To hear the message of salvation, right?

Why are you trying to silence the message, Nate?
Why do you keep turning up - either making light of it, or trying to mute it?

 

[OlNate]

Nate, you disagree with how I do things. A lot of people disagree with how I do things. Have you asked God if it's right for you to be minding other's business?

Believe it or not, some time ago, a Christian rebuked me for my style. I was told that I'm "the kind of Christian who turns people off Christianity." That shook my confidence. I questioned myself. She could be right. Maybe, I'm doing more harm than good.
So I asked God about it. I was in the shower, preparing to go to a Billy Graham workshop....I was talking to God in the shower.
I told Him that, "I'm afraid I'm turning people off." Verbatim. I asked for His guidance.
An hour later I was at the auditorium where the work shop was going to happen, reading pamphlets while waiting for the speaker.
I was engrossed with what I was reading that I didn't realize he was already onstage. Suddenly, his voice boomed (using a mic), his first statement was a question: ARE YOU AFRAID YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE OFF?

Well....he did his explanation using a volunteer, and a light switch. To make the story short - the answer to me was,
"No, you can't turn off those who are already off." Of course, I was giddy!
I even stood up and said - you answered what I just asked God!!
That happened in the morning. That night, I started doubting the message. Was it just a coincidence, God? I needed to be sure.
I opened my Bible, and the verse gave me the confirmation that it wasn't a coincidence. The verse was about Jesus.....AGGRESSIVELY challenging and debating....quoting His REFERENCES (Old Testament)! Something "clicked" inside me, and I just knew - it was a follow-up response to the one I had that morning.

What can I say, OlNate? :shrug: Have you read my OP? The first few sentences in it? Am I being guided to create this topic?
I don't know. All I know is I stumbled on a verse - and I felt compelled to create this!

But I know that it's not the first time God got involved in a forum! At one time - on two separate forum - I was being unfairly clobbered by a pack of new atheists! I opened the Bible, and the verse stuck with me - "Do not be afraid. I've got friends in the city."
On both forums, two posters came to give aid. One was an agnostic - believe it or not! I never saw him before. After he berated the pack - he put them on the defensive - he abruptly disapppeared.


How do you know this topic is for the benefit of Elvira? I don't know!
For all I know....it's for the benefit of a silent reader whom God is reaching out to.
For all we know....it might turn out it could be for.......... you.


Why are you trying to silence the message, Nate? Why do you keep turning up - either making light of it, or trying to mute it?

Tos, my friend, you're in a political debate forum, you're not on a pulpit. This is where you talk with people, not at them. I'm under no obligation to leave any post here unchallenged - in fact, the opposite, we are encouraged to debate, that's the point of this place. What would you like my response to be? And how do you actually conjure the cohones to reproach me for minding other's business, when you're in here telling someone their entire belief system is a lie?

What if I told you today that I woke up, and felt a powerful tug upon my heart to get on here today and show a fellow believer a better path? What if I told you that I had a dream in the night that spoke to me about finding you here, teeing off on someone who's not interested, and asked me to interject? Would that have more weight than simply saying that my God given common sense tells me that hitting people over the head with stuff only works for cavemen trying to get laid?

Do you disagree with what I'm saying to you, or are you just trying to get me to stop saying it in order to save face? I don't feel like I'm being overly controversial or confrontational. I know you're Baptist, and that tends towards a sense of entitlement to the mic when you guys get on a roll. But I'm a Lutheran, we can't really help but try to course correct when we see our fellow believers sailing into the rocks. Good thing, too, otherwise you'd be Catholic... You're welcome.

Maybe instead of desperately trying to silence me, you ought to consider what I'm saying to you. Maybe I'm saying it to you for a reason...maybe your "ARE YOU AFRAID YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE OFF" seminar was a mistake, and this is the message you're supposed to be receiving. I don't know about you, but most of my celestial feedback has been of a corrective nature, not a confirming nature. After all, we humans are pretty good at feeling right...

 

[tosca1]

Tos, my friend, you're in a political debate forum, you're not on a pulpit. This is where you talk with people, not at them. I'm under no obligation to leave any post here unchallenged - in fact, the opposite, we are encouraged to debate, that's the point of this place. What would you like my response to be? And how do you actually conjure the cohones to reproach me for minding other's business, when you're in here telling someone their entire belief system is a lie?

What if I told you today that I woke up, and felt a powerful tug upon my heart to get on here today and show a fellow believer a better path? What if I told you that I had a dream in the night that spoke to me about finding you here, teeing off on someone who's not interested, and asked me to interject? Would that have more weight than simply saying that my God given common sense tells me that hitting people over the head with stuff only works for cavemen trying to get laid?

Do you disagree with what I'm saying to you, or are you just trying to get me to stop saying it in order to save face? I don't feel like I'm being overly controversial or confrontational. I know you're Baptist, and that tends towards a sense of entitlement to the mic when you guys get on a roll. But I'm a Lutheran, we can't really help but try to course correct when we see our fellow believers sailing into the rocks. Good thing, too, otherwise you'd be Catholic... You're welcome.

Maybe instead of desperately trying to silence me, you ought to consider what I'm saying to you. Maybe I'm saying it to you for a reason...maybe your "ARE YOU AFRAID YOU'RE TURNING PEOPLE OFF" seminar was a mistake, and this is the message you're supposed to be receiving. I don't know about you, but most of my celestial feedback has been of a corrective nature, not a confirming nature. After all, we humans are pretty good at feeling right...

I'm on the RELIGION SECTION of a political forum. Theology section.

And......?

Btw, I edited my response above, and added some more. About Matthew 6.


(why is this suddenly about you? You seem to have a pattern for this kinda thing - making it about you!)
Stop trying to compete with the message! If you want us to discuss you, create your own thread. :lol:

Bye Nate.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Got a scripture on that?

No. I didn't invent or extrapolate that one. I dismissed it as hand-waving when I heard it. Feel free to do the same.

The next sentence was something about how simply asking the question was to commit blasphemy by saying the lord of life didn't know what he was saying...

 

[OlNate]

I'm on the RELIGION SECTION of a political forum. Theology section.

And......?

Btw, I edited my response above, and added some more. About Matthew 6.


(why is this suddenly about you? You seem to have a pattern for this kinda thing - making it about you!)
Stop trying to compete with the message! If you want us to discuss you, create your own thread. :lol:

Bye Nate.

Hi, Tos! :lol: You keep saying bye, as if that means I can't talk anymore. Let me explain how this forum thing works. Your control of the conversation ends where you choose whether or not to respond. You don't get to tell me that I cannot respond. It's a habit of yours that I find makes it difficult to remain friendly with you.

And I know what this part of the forum is about, I've defended you enough times on here by quoting the rules to keep you from getting ganged up on by trolls (did the same for Elvira as well, come to think of it, I should stop helping both of you, you're a pair of ingrates...haha...that's a joke, in case your sense of humor is broken), so give me a little credit. This is where believers get to have religious debate without having to defend against atheists steering the topic into whether or not God exists. That's all the protection this sub forum affords you. It's not a license to silence any other opposition. We merely debate here under the assumption that God exists. Or Mohammed. Or Buddha. Or whatever form of theology members of the same religion would like to discuss.

I brought up Matthew 6 specifically to NOT make this about me. Logicman was asking about my salvation headcount...lol... I didn't want to be rude and ignore him, so I answered the best way I could. Cut a guy some slack. But if you want to know why it was referenced, it wasn't for the part that said feed the needy, but rather the part where it says to pray in private and keep your fasting to yourself. This is why I don't, as a rule, discuss my "achievements" - mainly because they aren't mine at all, but rather God's. Does that clear things up for you? Because I resent the allegation that I made this about me, when I was trying to prevent that from happening. Now you're doing it too (making this about me). Please stop, if you don't mind.

Anyway...do you want to discuss any of the things relating to your thread that I brought up, or are you just desperate to get rid of me because I present an opposing view? Maybe you'd like no one to interact with you, so you can just type whatever you like to yourself and feel like you've accomplished something? If that's what you want, perhaps open up a new text document on your computer, as that would help to reduce confusion by people like me, thinking that because you post ideas and opinions on a discussion forum you want to actually, you know, discuss them...

Back to you - if you want. I'm getting a bit tired of trying to engage with you, but only being welcomed if I am 100% aligned. If your faith is so weak that it can't handle a conversation with a fellow believer that sees things a little different than you, I would suggest you are in no place to be giving others advice about their faith at all.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Daisy]

Let's have a little entertainment to lighten the mood...:2razz:

 

[tosca1]

Jehovah's Witnesses devoted a lengthy article to get "in-depth" explaining about "false prophets."

How can true prophets and false ones be identified?

True prophets speak in the name of God, but merely claiming to represent him is not enough

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.”
(Compare Jeremiah 14:14; 28:11, 15.)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989228



What's wrong with this picture???


It's missing Deuteronomy 18:21-22.
The last statement, which is the most crucial in determining a false prophet from a true prophet, is excluded from JW's explanation.

Here's what they edited from Deuteronomy.




Deuteronomy 18

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?”

22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken.
That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.


Why would JW cut that one off? Why isn't that included? Could it be because of this?




Deuteronomy 18
However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.”

 

[tosca1]

continuation......

True prophets speak in the name of God, but merely claiming to represent him is not enough

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.” (Compare Jeremiah 14:14; 28:11, 15.)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989228#h=7



JW.org says to compare with Jeremiah 14:14.

Lol. Curiously.....I looked what precedes Jer 14:14 - :lol: yes, it's Jeremiah 14:13. :mrgreen:

Let's read it together!


Jeremiah 14

13 But I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! The prophets keep telling them, ‘You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.’”

14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries[a] and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, ‘No sword or famine will touch this land.’ Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine.


Jeremiah 14: 13 says false prophets were prophesying about lasting peace! :lol: That rings a bell???


Here are the numerous failed prophesies made by JW on peace and security! They kept postponing the peace period! :lol:

Jehovah's Witnesses Predictions of "Peace and Security"

 

[Logician Man]

continuation......



https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989228#h=7



JW.org says to compare with Jeremiah 14:14.

Lol. Curiously.....I looked what precedes Jer 14:14 - :lol: yes, it's Jeremiah 14:13. :mrgreen:

Let's read it together!


Jeremiah 14

13 But I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! The prophets keep telling them, ‘You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.’”

14 Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries[a] and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore this is what the Lord says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, ‘No sword or famine will touch this land.’ Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine.


Jeremiah 14: 13 says false prophets were prophesying about lasting peace! :lol: That rings a bell???


Here are the numerous failed prophesies made by JW on peace and security!

Jehovah's Witnesses Predictions of "Peace and Security"

:yawn:

 

[Logician Man]

Hi, Tos! :lol: You keep saying bye, as if that means I can't talk anymore. Let me explain how this forum thing works. Your control of the conversation ends where you choose whether or not to respond. You don't get to tell me that I cannot respond. It's a habit of yours that I find makes it difficult to remain friendly with you.

And I know what this part of the forum is about, I've defended you enough times on here by quoting the rules to keep you from getting ganged up on by trolls (did the same for Elvira as well, come to think of it, I should stop helping both of you, you're a pair of ingrates...haha...that's a joke, in case your sense of humor is broken), so give me a little credit. This is where believers get to have religious debate without having to defend against atheists steering the topic into whether or not God exists. That's all the protection this sub forum affords you. It's not a license to silence any other opposition. We merely debate here under the assumption that God exists. Or Mohammed. Or Buddha. Or whatever form of theology members of the same religion would like to discuss.

I brought up Matthew 6 specifically to NOT make this about me. Logicman was asking about my salvation headcount...lol... I didn't want to be rude and ignore him, so I answered the best way I could. Cut a guy some slack. But if you want to know why it was referenced, it wasn't for the part that said feed the needy, but rather the part where it says to pray in private and keep your fasting to yourself. This is why I don't, as a rule, discuss my "achievements" - mainly because they aren't mine at all, but rather God's. Does that clear things up for you? Because I resent the allegation that I made this about me, when I was trying to prevent that from happening. Now you're doing it too (making this about me). Please stop, if you don't mind.

Anyway...do you want to discuss any of the things relating to your thread that I brought up, or are you just desperate to get rid of me because I present an opposing view? Maybe you'd like no one to interact with you, so you can just type whatever you like to yourself and feel like you've accomplished something? If that's what you want, perhaps open up a new text document on your computer, as that would help to reduce confusion by people like me, thinking that because you post ideas and opinions on a discussion forum you want to actually, you know, discuss them...

Back to you - if you want. I'm getting a bit tired of trying to engage with you, but only being welcomed if I am 100% aligned. If your faith is so weak that it can't handle a conversation with a fellow believer that sees things a little different than you, I would suggest you are in no place to be giving others advice about their faith at all.

Just my opinion, of course.

:applaud

 

[tosca1]

Continuation........

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.”
(Compare Jeremiah 14:14; 28:11, 15.)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989228#h=7


JW.org says to compare Jeremiah 28:11, and 15. Okay, let's do that too.



Oh, boy.....I looked at the preceding verses again! Yep. Jeremiah 28:9-10. It's about peace again! :mrgreen:


Jeremiah 28
9 The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him.

10 Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from off the prophet Jeremiah's neck, and brake it.

11 And Hananiah spake in the presence of all the people, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all nations within the space of two full years. And the prophet Jeremiah went his way.

12 Then the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah the prophet, after that Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying,

13 Go and tell Hananiah, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Thou hast broken the yokes of wood; but thou shalt make for them yokes of iron.

14 For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they shall serve him: and I have given him the beasts of the field also.

15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The Lord hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the Lord.

17 So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

Time and again, for almost a whole century, the Watch Tower society has proclaimed that Paul's prophecy about "peace and security" has been close to fulfillment. Each time these predictions have gone wrong. It might be expected that a movement that has failed so com-pletely in its predictions would finally assume a more humble attitude and begin to tone down its prophetic claims. But instead the movement continues, with stubborn presumptuousness, to speak as if it receives its messages directly from Jehovah himself: "We are confident that Jehovah will keep his people well informed", said The Watchtower of May 15, 1987 (page 19) And in the same magazine, in the issue of September 1, 1987, the following promise is given on page 22:

"To help you keep on guard, the Watch Tower Society will continue issuing in its publications timely warnings to the reading public, so that you will not be caught off guard by the coming pretentious proclamation 'Peace and security', as devised by the nations of this old system of things."

"Timely warnings"? How much is such a promise worth to the one who knows that every warning of this kind given in the past by this Society has been given in the wrong time? Not a scrap, of course. Unfortunately, however, millions of unsuspecting and confiding people will continue to take such promises in sober earnest and act accordingly.

No one is so misled as the one who believes it is a grave sin to question those who misled him.
(Matthew 15:14)

Jehovah's Witnesses Predictions of "Peace and Security"




Matthew 15

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.

14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”



JW's prophecies of peace did not come to pass.

 

[Logician Man]

Continuation........





https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989228#h=7

JW.org says to compare Jeremiah 28:11, and 15. Okay, let's do that too.

Oh, boy.....I looked at the preceding verses again! Yep. Jeremiah 28:9-10. It's about peace again! :lamo


Jeremiah 28
9 The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him.

10 Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from off the prophet Jeremiah's neck, and brake it.

11 And Hananiah spake in the presence of all the people, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all nations within the space of two full years. And the prophet Jeremiah went his way.

12 Then the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah the prophet, after that Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying,

13 Go and tell Hananiah, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Thou hast broken the yokes of wood; but thou shalt make for them yokes of iron.

14 For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they shall serve him: and I have given him the beasts of the field also.

15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The Lord hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the Lord.

17 So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

:yawn:

 

[tosca1]

I'm beginning to understand why JW members cannot discuss any farther than simply digging in their heels, and repeating claims that have been de-bunked....... that they will not seek explanation from their teachers.
They can't.

I also now begin to understand why JW members' knowledge and understanding about Christianity seem to be so limited. They are discouraged to do their own private research.
Everything they learn has to come from JW.
Thus, all they can give for arguments/rebuttals are limited to what they've been taught - propaganda.

Although the Watchtower teachings have changed substantially they are still not to be questioned. To condemn the members for questioning changes is a confusing means of mental manipulation, because members know things are wrong but are told it is wrong to admit that to themselves. To forbid questioning and discourage research is a powerful form of mind control.

How does one raised as a Witness know they have truth if they must follow absolutely what this single Organization teaches? Anyone who questions is said to be questioning not just the Organization, they are said to be questioning Jehovah himself! The following quotes are quite shocking.

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php



"First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding.
Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave."


9 Second, the expression “the faith” refers, not to the conviction that each individual Christian professes, but to the totality of our belief, “the breadth and length and height and depth” of it. (Ephesians 3:18; 4:5; Colossians 1:23; 2:7)
In fact, how can a Christian be in oneness with fellow believers if he only believes or accepts a certain part of “the faith”? This means that we must not be content with knowing just the basic teachings of the Bible or having just hazy or partial knowledge of the truth. Rather, we should be interested in taking advantage of all of Jehovah’s provisions through his organization to dig deeply into his Word.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001563



This is contrary to Biblical teachings on discerning.

What does the Bible say about discernment?


The word discern and its derivatives are translations of the Greek word anakrino in the New Testament. It means “to distinguish, to separate out by diligent search, to examine.” Discernment is the ability to properly discriminate or make determinations. It is related to wisdom. The Word of God itself is said to discern the thoughts and intentions of one’s heart (Hebrews 4:12).

Just as Solomon sought discernment and wisdom (Proverbs 1:2; 1 Kings 3:9-12) to explore the handiwork of God (Ecclesiastes 1:13) and seek the meaning of life (Ecclesiastes 12:13), so should believers seek “the wisdom that comes from heaven” (James 3:17). We must study the Scriptures which are “able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 3:15).

May our prayer be “I am your servant; give me discernment that I may understand your statutes” (Psalm 119:125).

We are commanded to “hate what is evil; cling to what is good” (Romans 12:9). But, unless we have true discernment, how can we determine what is “evil” and what is “good”? In order to maintain the purity of the gospel, the church must distinguish truth from heresy. Wisdom also demands that we properly discriminate between what is “best” and what is merely “good.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-discernment.html

 

[Logician Man]

I'm beginning to understand why JW members cannot discuss any farther than simply digging in their heels, and repeating claims that have been de-bunked, that they will not seek explanation from their teachers.

I also now begin to understand why JW members' knowledge and understanding about Christianity seem to be so limited. They are discouraged to do their own private researchings. Everything they learn has to come from JW. Thus, all they can give for arguments/rebuttals are limited to what they've been taught - propaganda.




https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php



"First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave."


9 Second, the expression “the faith” refers, not to the conviction that each individual Christian professes, but to the totality of our belief, “the breadth and length and height and depth” of it. (Ephesians 3:18; 4:5; Colossians 1:23; 2:7) In fact, how can a Christian be in oneness with fellow believers if he only believes or accepts a certain part of “the faith”? This means that we must not be content with knowing just the basic teachings of the Bible or having just hazy or partial knowledge of the truth. Rather, we should be interested in taking advantage of all of Jehovah’s provisions through his organization to dig deeply into his Word.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001563


This is contrary to Biblical teachings on discerning.



https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-discernment.html

How about Jews that don't believe Jesus is the Lord and Savior ? Is it your contention they are also 'lost souls' and will spend eternity in the 'Christian' Lake of Fire for eternity when they die? Are they too hell bound 'cultists' for not accepting Christ as the Messiah ? Jews are no more trinitarians than JWs.

 

[tosca1]

How about Jews that don't believe Jesus is the Lord and Savior ? Is it your contention they are also 'lost souls' and will spend eternity in the 'Christian' Lake of Fire for eternity when they die? Are they too hell bound 'cultists' for not accepting Christ as the Messiah ?

Irrelevant. This is about failed prophecies by false prophets.
Please stick to the issue.

I can't help but notice your attitude towards JW issues.
If you're a JW - which I now strongly suspect you are - can you address the specific issues I've raised?

 

[Logician Man]

Irrelevant. This is about failed prophecies by false prophets.
Please stick to the issue.

What do the prophesies say about the eternal fate of non-Messianic Jews?

 

[tosca1]

What do the prophesies say about the eternal fate of non-Messianic Jews?

You tell me. Who made those prophecies?

Most importantly......when is that fulfillment supposed to happen?


Here's logic again, Logician man.....

How do we know a prophecy had failed? When it doesn't happen, right?
Had it happened already? Jesus had come back already???

 

[Logician Man]

Irrelevant. This is about failed prophecies by false prophets.
Please stick to the issue.

I can't help but notice your attitude towards JW issues.
If you're a JW - which I now strongly suspect you are - can you address the specific issues I've raised?

I've already told you I am not a JW. Your suspicions are incorrect and evidently your memory is failing you, or you are intentionally being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Logician Man]

You tell me. Who made those prophecies?
Most importantly......when is that fulfillment supposed to happen?

nice dodge. Care to take a mulligan and opt to answer a fair question as opposed to running from a fair question ? Otherwise, I will graciously accept your defeat.

 

[Logician Man]

You tell me. Who made those prophecies?

Most importantly......when is that fulfillment supposed to happen?


Here's logic again, Logician man.....

How do we know a prophecy had failed? When it doesn't happen, right?
Had it happened already? Jesus had come back already???

Your defeat is graciously accepted.

 

[tosca1]

nice dodge. Care to take a mulligan and opt to answer a fair question as opposed to running from a fair question ? Otherwise, I will graciously accept your defeat.

No, you're the dodger....remember? But I don't think you've dodged this time. You just didn't know what you're spouting off.

You still don't get it, right? The logic I gave you?

Your defeat is graciously accepted.

I didn't 'spout off' anything. I posed a fair question which you refused to respond to and I graciously accepted your defeat. end....of...story

whatever.

Bye.

 

[Logician Man]

No, you're the dodger....remember? But I don't think you've dodged this time. You just didn't know what you're spouting off.

You still don't get it, right? The logic I gave you?

I didn't 'spout off' anything. I posed a fair question which you refused to respond to and I graciously accepted your defeat. end....of...story

 

[OlNate]

No, you're the dodger....remember? But I don't think you've dodged this time. You just didn't know what you're spouting off.

You still don't get it, right? The logic I gave you?

whatever.

Bye.

So, Tos...seems like everyone that comes to talk to you, you dismiss with a snarky "bye". How's that witnessing going for you? How many people are you saving with this thread? Do you think Christ would approve of this approach? Maybe you'd have more luck if you and Elvira weren't trying to out-holy each other to death.