Fact check: Trump falsely claims whistleblower rules changed just before Ukraine complaint

[Mach]

The right wing talking point circulating in an attempt to defend Trump in the Trump/Ukraine Corruption scandal has been debunked, and now also debunked by the IC IG specifically as an official News Release.
Noting of course that even as misinformation, it was irrelevant...the transcript and Trump/Giuliani have agreed this occurred, it's not in question, and the investigation is now underway to lay out all the facts.

The President of the United States is pushing misinformation, along with The Federalist website.

CNN:

Monday's tweet was at least Trump's second reference to the theory, which apparently was initially propagated by the right-wing website The Federalist on September 27.

The article claims that "between May 2018 and August 2019, the intelligence community secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblowers provide direct, first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoings."

Facts First: This is false. The Federalist reading of the form is inaccurate and although the submission form that whistleblowers from the intelligence community fill out was revised in August 2019, the revision did not change the rules on who can submit a whistleblower complaint.

The IC IG has also now also officially released a statement debunking the conspiracy theory pushed by Trump and many Republicans, popularized by The Federalist

Official IC IG Government News Release

In summary, regarding the instant matter, the whistleblower submitted the appropriate Disclosure of Urgent Concern form that was in effect as of August 12, 2019, and had been used by the ICIG since May 24, 2018. The whistleblower stated on the form that he or she possessed both first-hand and other information. The ICIG reviewed the information provided as well as other information gathered and determined that the complaint was both urgent and that it appeared credible. From the moment the ICIG received the whistleblower’s filing, the ICIG has worked to effectuate Congress’s intent, and the whistleblower’s intent, within the rule of law. The ICIG will continue in those efforts on behalf of all whistleblowers in the Intelligence Community.

breaking news:
Fact check: Trump tweets conspiracy theory about whistleblower rules changing - CNNPolitics

IC IG Release:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Docu...on Processing of Whistleblower Complaints.pdf

 

[Mach]

I'm sure now that it's factually been debunked, we'll never hear it again.
I'm sure Trump supporters will be horrified that POTUS is spreading misinformation in an effort to justify his corrupt acts.
I'm sure Trump supporters will rally for The Federalist to stop pushing "fake not-news".

Right?
More from the IC IG report:

The Disclosure of Urgent Concern form the Complainant submitted on August 12, 2019 is the same form the ICIG has had in place since May 24, 2018, which went into effect before Inspector General Atkinson entered on duty as the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community on May 29, 2018, following his swearing in as the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community on May 17, 2018. Although the form requests information about whether the Complainant possesses first-hand knowledge about the matter about which he or she is lodging the complaint, there is no such requirement set forth in the statute. In fact, by law the Complainant – or any individual in the Intelligence Community who wants to report information with respect to an urgent concern to the congressional intelligence committees – need not possess first-hand information in order to file a complaint or information with respect to an urgent concern. The ICIG cannot add conditions to the filing of an urgent concern that do not exist in law. Since Inspector General Atkinson entered on duty as the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, the ICIG has not rejected the filing of an alleged urgent concern due to a whistleblower’s lack of first-hand knowledge of the allegations

 

[chuckiechan]

I'm sure now that it's factually been debunked, we'll never hear it again.
I'm sure Trump supporters will be horrified that POTUS is spreading misinformation in an effort to justify his corrupt acts.
I'm sure Trump supporters will rally for The Federalist to stop pushing "fake not-news".

Right?
More from the IC IG report:

The form was changed to allow second hand, but the question is who changed it and why. You can’t have every Tom Dick and Harry intelligence agent listening around the water cooler, then filing a complaint. The other problem is how can presidents do the nation’s business when a “typist” can become the second party and go after policy decisions of the president?

Lastly, the whistleblower thing is unraveling. It seems the person was reported to have checked “first person” and “second person” but the complaint was only second person.

This whole thing is creepy from an intelligence agency power perspective. It seems they really are running things. We actually have democrats oK with the CIA spying on a president. These people are desperately.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Autocracy and dictatorship come to fruition in democracies when aspiring autocrats push on institutions and see how much they push back.

This isn’t about Trump trying to become a dictator although I’m sure he’d like to, but I don’t think he would be able to.

But with such a significant portion of the population so ready to support his attack on every single institution that could possibly hold him accountable and inventing the idea that all of these institutions are out to get him and that they should be weakened and stacked with his sycophants in order to ensure their loyalty not to the nation, but to the President is troubling to say the least.

We are seeing today the ultimate test, the system is being laid bare for all to see and it is being tested and even if Trump comes out of this unscathed, will the path he has shown to autocracy in the American context be a blueprint for others to follow based on a significant portion of the body politics support

Laws, conventions, constitutions are only worth something as long as people value them and if they no longer value them and institutions are stacked with sycophants well... you know the rest.

Trumps misinformation and more importantly his supporters willingness to spread this misinformation further and compound it, Trumps death threats against the whistleblower, but more importantly his supporters willingness to excuse it and paint this person as a traitor, Trumps saying things like Schiff should be in jail for treason but more importantly his supporters willingness to excuse such things, Trumps attacks on Mueller but more importantly his supporters willingness to go along with it, paints a stark and troubling picture of what is to come because what Trump is showing clearly is that with a significant enough political cover from a portion of the population, the two party dictatorship and the media stoking the flames, someone who is more competent can absolutely break the American system.

It’s already practically an oligarchy, but it’s not beyond fixing...

You just have to vote for it and that means destroying both parties, destroying their stranglehold on power and demanding greater accountability.

To stand behind this man says a heck of a lot about you if you so choose.

 

[Mr Person]

The form was changed <irrelevance snipped>

No...

See also

1) Here is the first part of the whistleblower complaint form from 2017, showing that "indirect evidence" was acceptable for the purpose of starting a complaint:

View attachment 67265050

Irvin McCullough on Twitter: "Exactly right. Here’s a screenshot of a standard template that the IC IG’s then-whistleblowing czar shared with me in 2017. First sentence: “I am a discloser with direct or indirect evidence in the above-captioned disclosure of a Title 50 alleged urgent concern.” [url]https://t.co/rhur9lEYHx… https://t.co/h8Bsfry5t7"[/url]

2) Here is the 2018 version, showing that the ICIG must be in possession of first hand information before handing the report on to the DNI. That burden is on the ICIG; it does not restrict the whistleblower himself from using second hand information for starting a whistleblower complaint. The ICIG in this case did come to be in possession of the first-hand information, which is why he concluded that the WB's complaint was credible.

View attachment 67265052

Icwpa Form 401 (24may18) | United States Intelligence Community | Public Sphere

The most recent version clears up any possible confusion by replacing "indirect evidence" with "hearsay," which materially changes nothing.

3) And finally, the biggest reason this made-up scandal is the stupidest thing ever: IT DOESN'T MATTER. The whistleblower's allegations were corroborated and confirmed by admissions from the White House itself, from admitting that WH lawyers kept politically sensitive phone calls on the classified computer server, and of course the DNI testified that the phone readout and the WB's claim were "aligned." If you don't agree that they're aligned, take it up with the DNI.

This should settle the matter, but frankly I think I used way too many words. It probably would have been better if I had explained it with a puppet show.

 

[Mach]

The form was changed to allow second hand, but the question is who changed it and why. You can’t have every Tom Dick and Harry intelligence agent listening around the water cooler, then filing a complaint.

There is no legitimate quesiton about the Whistleblower complaint, it's been debunked.

But here you are writing about water coolers and Tom Dick and Harry. Shameful.

 

[Mycroft]

The right wing talking point circulating in an attempt to defend Trump in the Trump/Ukraine Corruption scandal has been debunked, and now also debunked by the IC IG specifically as an official News Release.
Noting of course that even as misinformation, it was irrelevant...the transcript and Trump/Giuliani have agreed this occurred, it's not in question, and the investigation is now underway to lay out all the facts.

The President of the United States is pushing misinformation, along with The Federalist website.

CNN:


The IC IG has also now also officially released a statement debunking the conspiracy theory pushed by Trump and many Republicans, popularized by The Federalist

Official IC IG Government News Release



breaking news:
Fact check: Trump tweets conspiracy theory about whistleblower rules changing - CNNPolitics

IC IG Release:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Docu...on Processing of Whistleblower Complaints.pdf

The law also required that the Complainant provide a complaint or information with respect to an“urgent concern,” which is defined, in relevant part, as: “A serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of the law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to the funding, administration, or operation of an intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the Director of National Intelligence involving classified information, but does not include differences of opinions concerning public policy matters.”Id. § 3033(k)(5)(G)(i). The Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that the Complainant alleged information with respect to such an alleged urgent concern.

But the DOJ OLC ruled...

In this case, the conduct that is the subject of the complaint does not relate to an “intelligence activity” under the DNI’s supervision. The complainant alleges that the President made an inappropriate or potential-ly unlawful request on a routine diplomatic call with a foreign leader. But the President is not a member of the intelligence community, see id. § 3003(4), and his communication with a foreign leader involved no intelligence operation or other activity aimed at collecting or analyzing foreign intelligence. To the extent that the complaint warrants further review, that review falls outside section 3033(k)(5), which does not charge the ICIG (let alone every intelligence-community employee) with reporting on every serious allegation that may be found in a classified document. To the contrary, where the ICIG learns of a credible allegation of a potential criminal matter outside the intelligence community, the ICIG should refer the matter to the Department of Justice, consistent with 28 U.S.C. § 535.

So...the ICIG can make any excuses he wants, but the bottom line is he made a bad call.

The only question now should be...

Did the ICIG make the bad call because of incompetence? (He should know the law, after all.)

Did the ICIG make the bad call on purpose? And if he did it on purpose, did he also change the form on purpose?

 

[Mach]

The only question now should be...
Did the ICIG make the bad call because of incompetence? (He should know the law, after all.)
Did the ICIG make the bad call on purpose? And if he did it on purpose, did he also change the form on purpose?

You are posting off-topic, this is about the conspiracy theory that you and others pushed concerning the super secret nefarious change of rules that allowed the WB complaint to proceed when it shouldn't have, and how it was debunked.

I do not care what you believe your phony conspiracy theory questions should be. You still push that Russian didn't hack the DNC, why would anyone believe your posts?

Attorney Barr's corrupt reasons for not passing the Whistleblower complaint to congress are irrelevant both to this thread, and to the matter discussed since Congress has the complaint, the IC IG letter, the DNI's agreement the law was followed, and we have the transcripts and an ongoing investigation complete with subpoenas churned out daily.

 

[Linc]

Meanwhile, who’s minding the store on foreign and domestic policy matters?!

How are our adversaries currently taking advantage of us on both fronts?!

Who among you, on both ‘sides’ of this catastrophe, can argue against a temporary two-headed Vice-Presidency of Haley and Kasich, to help a President Pence get through this, both on the foreign and domestic fronts respectively?!

It remains time for our Nation to move on from #45 and come together, which we still haven’t done since Nixon on.

 

[poweRob]

The right wing talking point circulating in an attempt to defend Trump in the Trump/Ukraine Corruption scandal has been debunked, and now also debunked by the IC IG specifically as an official News Release.
Noting of course that even as misinformation, it was irrelevant...the transcript and Trump/Giuliani have agreed this occurred, it's not in question, and the investigation is now underway to lay out all the facts.

The President of the United States is pushing misinformation, along with The Federalist website.

CNN:


The IC IG has also now also officially released a statement debunking the conspiracy theory pushed by Trump and many Republicans, popularized by The Federalist

Official IC IG Government News Release



breaking news:
Fact check: Trump tweets conspiracy theory about whistleblower rules changing - CNNPolitics

IC IG Release:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Docu...on Processing of Whistleblower Complaints.pdf

He's so damn desperate. And in his flailing desperation, he will make it all worse for himself.

 

[Trump]

The form was changed to allow second hand, but the question is who changed it and why. You can’t have every Tom Dick and Harry intelligence agent listening around the water cooler, then filing a complaint. The other problem is how can presidents do the nation’s business when a “typist” can become the second party and go after policy decisions of the president?

Lastly, the whistleblower thing is unraveling. It seems the person was reported to have checked “first person” and “second person” but the complaint was only second person.

This whole thing is creepy from an intelligence agency power perspective. It seems they really are running things. We actually have democrats oK with the CIA spying on a president. These people are desperately.

Comey telling Trump he's not under investigation in Private ....all the agencies needed to be flushed of scumbags like Brennan Clapper Comey McCabe Strzok..just think if Hillary was President all these idiots would have promotions

 

[Mycroft]

You are posting off-topic, this is about the conspiracy theory that you and others pushed concerning the super secret nefarious change of rules that allowed the WB complaint to proceed when it shouldn't have, and how it was debunked.

I do not care what you believe your phony conspiracy theory questions should be. You still push that Russian didn't hack the DNC, why would anyone believe your posts?

Attorney Barr's corrupt reasons for not passing the Whistleblower complaint to congress are irrelevant both to this thread, and to the matter discussed since Congress has the complaint, the IC IG letter, the DNI's agreement the law was followed, and we have the transcripts and an ongoing investigation complete with subpoenas churned out daily.

1. I'm not off topic. I spoke to the issue of changing the complaint form.

2. If this is about a conspiracy theory, then you are in the wrong forum.

3. I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I deal in facts...such as the facts I presented in my post.

4. Barr has nothing to do with the reasoning presented by the DOJ OLC. Sorry.

5. Sure...Congress can ignore the facts. They do that well and often.

6. The ADNI doesn't agree that the law was followed. He stands with the ruling of the DOJ OLC.

Anything else you want to blather about?

 

[poweRob]

There is no legitimate quesiton about the Whistleblower complaint, it's been debunked.

But here you are writing about water coolers and Tom Dick and Harry. Shameful.

Their off-topic distraction posts are getting far more inane and erratic aren't they?

 

[Helix]

Tweety arguments are lies by default.

 

[Mach]

1. I'm not off topic. I spoke to the issue of changing the complaint form.

So how does this:

6. The ADNI doesn't agree that the law was followed. He stands with the ruling of the DOJ OLC.

Relate to the topic of the thread: now-debunked right wing ministration, tweeted by Trump, that the whistleblower rules changed just before Ukraine complaint and the implication that this was important or relevant?

ADNI is off-topic.
ADNI claiming he was correct in not taking it to Congress is off-topic.

ADNI claiming he was correct not taking it to Congress is also irrelevant to the corruption investigation in general, since the White House released it to Congress, and the transcript that much of the core allegations were based on, and has requested all other relevant documents due by next week.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Trump has stated today that they are looking to identify the whistle-blower. Outing their name's a felony, punishable by up to three years.

 

[Barnacle]

Trump has stated today that they are looking to identify the whistle-blower. Outing their name's a felony, punishable by up to three years.

Don't make me laugh ... :lamo

 

[Airyaman]

Trump has stated today that they are looking to identify the whistle-blower. Outing their name's a felony, punishable by up to three years.

While he won't be arrested or charged or indicted, it is another impeachment article. When he took his oath, he swore that he "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed". Since the whistleblower statute requires the anonymity of the complainant, seeking to reveal the identity of the WB is a violation of his oath of office.

 

[Barnacle]

The right wing talking point circulating in an attempt to defend Trump in the Trump/Ukraine Corruption scandal has been debunked, and now also debunked by the IC IG specifically as an official News Release.
Noting of course that even as misinformation, it was irrelevant...the transcript and Trump/Giuliani have agreed this occurred, it's not in question, and the investigation is now underway to lay out all the facts.
The President of the United States is pushing misinformation, along with The Federalist website.
CNN:
The IC IG has also now also officially released a statement debunking the conspiracy theory pushed by Trump and many Republicans, popularized by The Federalist
Official IC IG Government News Release
breaking news:
Fact check: Trump tweets conspiracy theory about whistleblower rules changing - CNNPolitics
IC IG Release:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Docu...on Processing of Whistleblower Complaints.pdf

So, Michael Atkinson, the ICIG, needed 4 pages to explain why the rules were changed ... :lamo

 

[Mr Person]

So, Michael Atkinson, the ICIG, needed 4 pages to explain why the rules were changed ... :lamo

"needed 4 pages"?

That's all you have for a defense? The number of pages it took to say a thing? The entire supposed rule change thing was bull****.

Got it? Bull****. So nothing about numbers of pages has anything to do with anything (other than the number of pages used).






" :lamo " indeed.

 

[chuckiechan]

But the DOJ OLC ruled...



So...the ICIG can make any excuses he wants, but the bottom line is he made a bad call.

The only question now should be...

Did the ICIG make the bad call because of incompetence? (He should know the law, after all.)

Did the ICIG make the bad call on purpose? And if he did it on purpose, did he also change the form on purpose?

I also wonder how a CIA agent in the White House can go around his chain of command, and offer up the results of his spying as a whistleblower complaint likely created by the House Intelligence committee. Talk about a blunt force hit that has to be breaking hundreds of laws and protocols designed to keep the CIA out of domestic spying.

It sounds like the democrats are trying to freeze out the justice department from investigating Biden - gate.

 

[Barnacle]

"needed 4 pages"?
That's all you have for a defense? The number of pages it took to say a thing? The entire supposed rule change thing was bull****.
Got it? Bull****. So nothing about numbers of pages has anything to do with anything (other than the number of pages used).
" :lamo " indeed.

What's the problem with you?!? Rules were changed ... and Atkinson needed 4 pages to explain why.

Again: Rules were changed.

 

[apdst]

But, the rules were changed, right? Riiiiiiiight!

 

[TomFitz]

Autocracy and dictatorship come to fruition in democracies when aspiring autocrats push on institutions and see how much they push back.

This isn’t about Trump trying to become a dictator although I’m sure he’d like to, but I don’t think he would be able to.

But with such a significant portion of the population so ready to support his attack on every single institution that could possibly hold him accountable and inventing the idea that all of these institutions are out to get him and that they should be weakened and stacked with his sycophants in order to ensure their loyalty not to the nation, but to the President is troubling to say the least.

We are seeing today the ultimate test, the system is being laid bare for all to see and it is being tested and even if Trump comes out of this unscathed, will the path he has shown to autocracy in the American context be a blueprint for others to follow based on a significant portion of the body politics support

Laws, conventions, constitutions are only worth something as long as people value them and if they no longer value them and institutions are stacked with sycophants well... you know the rest.

Trumps misinformation and more importantly his supporters willingness to spread this misinformation further and compound it, Trumps death threats against the whistleblower, but more importantly his supporters willingness to excuse it and paint this person as a traitor, Trumps saying things like Schiff should be in jail for treason but more importantly his supporters willingness to excuse such things, Trumps attacks on Mueller but more importantly his supporters willingness to go along with it, paints a stark and troubling picture of what is to come because what Trump is showing clearly is that with a significant enough political cover from a portion of the population, the two party dictatorship and the media stoking the flames, someone who is more competent can absolutely break the American system.

It’s already practically an oligarchy, but it’s not beyond fixing...

You just have to vote for it and that means destroying both parties, destroying their stranglehold on power and demanding greater accountability.

To stand behind this man says a heck of a lot about you if you so choose.

“Trumps attacks on Mueller but more importantly his supporters willingness to go along with it, paints a stark and troubling picture of what is to come because what Trump is showing clearly is that with a significant enough political cover from a portion of the population, the two party dictatorship and the media stoking the flames, someone who is more competent can absolutely break the American system. “

Which is why he has to be impeached and convicted. And Congress should add his attempts to block witnesses and evidence, obstruction of justice, undermining congressional oversight and the power of the purse.

These are all very dangerous precidents.

If they stand, the path will be all the more direct when a smart one comes along.

It can happen here. That’s one thing Trump proved.

 

[Mycroft]

So how does this:


Relate to the topic of the thread: now-debunked right wing ministration, tweeted by Trump, that the whistleblower rules changed just before Ukraine complaint and the implication that this was important or relevant?

ADNI is off-topic.
ADNI claiming he was correct in not taking it to Congress is off-topic.

ADNI claiming he was correct not taking it to Congress is also irrelevant to the corruption investigation in general, since the White House released it to Congress, and the transcript that much of the core allegations were based on, and has requested all other relevant documents due by next week.

Which particular part of your blather do you want me to address?