ROTFLOL... You are now crapping an enormous load on Bill Clinton. Nice of you to admit that under Clinton's 8-years he neglected the military... which is typical of Libs.The is likely a list. We oversaw a war he wasn't prepared for to start with.
His comment about going to war with the amry you have highlights this.
Thomas Sowell shreds Clinton in this 1999 article, and gives facts of how badly Clinton neglected the military.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=RLM0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=LCEGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2057,2287036&hl=en
The military walked through Iraq and kicked ass. They got to Baghdad in 2 weeks. Now, when the German and Japanese were defeated, they didn't loot themselves and they didn't terrorize. Iraqi's did. OK, post ass-kicking things got tough for a while, BUT... if you know anything about war, if you are familiar with Clausewitz... you know war is rarely predictable.
They had a plan, and Gen. Franks created it. It's disingenuous to say they didn't have a plan. Pure hogwash.He had time to plan.
They had plans before Bush came to office. You think the military doesn't have plans of actions for different theatres? Oh my.He was asked right after 9/11 to formulate a plan with Iraq.
He was, and if you read Woodward's book he documents Bush grilling CIA chief Tenet, and Tenet telling him it was "a slam dunk". ALL our allies believed Saddam had WMD, and Hans Blix believed he had and was lying... I've posted this stuff before. The Germans hid their fear of biological weapons coming from Iraq and being used in Germany, because of an election (Schroeder the pig). Their fear was with even modest amounts 25 million people could die.He shoudl have been prepared. He should have argued against going in.
Bush listened to many people. Hillary Clinton told Code Pink she had info from her time in the WH with co-prez Billy about Saddam's WMD. That vid is easy to find. I suggest you take a peek.Listened more to Powell and less to Cheney.
So, your list amounts to nothing.These are just off the top of my head.
Care to try again?
.
ROTFLOL... You are now crapping an enormous load on Bill Clinton. Nice of you to admit that under Clinton's 8-years he neglected the military... which is typical of Libs.
Thomas Sowell shreds Clinton in this 1999 article, and gives facts of how badly Clinton neglected the military.
Lodi News-Sentinel - Google News Archive Search
The military walked through Iraq and kicked ass. They got to Baghdad in 2 weeks. Now, when the German and Japanese were defeated, they didn't loot themselves and they didn't terrorize. Iraqi's did. OK, post ass-kicking things got tough for a while, BUT... if you know anything about war, if you are familiar with Clausewitz... you know war is rarely predictable.
They had a plan, and Gen. Franks created it. It's disingenuous to say they didn't have a plan. Pure hogwash.
They had plans before Bush came to office. You think the military doesn't have plans of actions for different theatres? Oh my.
He was, and if you read Woodward's book he documents Bush grilling CIA chief Tenet, and Tenet telling him it was "a slam dunk". ALL our allies believed Saddam had WMD, and Hans Blix believed he had and was lying... I've posted this stuff before. The Germans hid their fear of biological weapons coming from Iraq and being used in Germany, because of an election (Schroeder the pig). Their fear was with even modest amounts 25 million people could die.
Bush listened to many people. Hillary Clinton told Code Pink she had info from her time in the WH with co-prez Billy about Saddam's WMD. That vid is easy to find. I suggest you take a peek.
So, your list amounts to nothing.
Care to try again?
It amazes me when people can even try and compare World War 2 to wars like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan...
"Well we won that one"
Yeah well it was a completely different kind of war. Conventional vs. Unconventional I.E. Geurilla/Insurgency vs. Tank battles in the fields of normandy against an opponent that was equal.
And the most inhumane thing we did was leave, knowing full well the slaughter that would result in Cambodia as a result.
Dropping ordinance is useless when there's no war plan in place.
Like Iraq, it may not have been a good plan, as it was still in WWII mode, but there was a plan. And we were trying to win. We killed a lot of people, and for no valid reason. And in the end, just liek with Iraq, we added injury to injury. And like Iraq, our real mistake was going in in the first place.
So you're for democracy and against torture, but you just don't have the stomach to actually do something about it. Got it.
Those poor people in Darfur will just have to keep dying by the thousands. Not our problem.
Too bad those people aren't whales or pit bulls or........trees. You know, the things liberals REALLY care about.
Bull****
You bombed the living hell of everything in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos and you didn't win there.
Take that argument and shove it up your ass.
You win nothing by killing the innocent.
Allow me to repeat: BULL ****!!!!
Any historical reading of vietnam shows we drop a ton of ordinace. We killed a lot of people. There was little humane about it. And it was useless. We had not adapted to a new type of warfare.
It amazes me when people can even try and compare World War 2 to wars like Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan...
"Well we won that one"
Yeah well it was a completely different kind of war. Conventional vs. Unconventional I.E. Geurilla/Insurgency vs. Tank battles in the fields of normandy against an opponent that was equal.
Why is that, "different", from a tactical point of view. No matter who your enemy is, the objective of any army, is to destroy the enemy's will and ability to wage war. i.e. do more damage to him than he does to you, in a shorter period of time. That's warfare 101.
"Winning hearts and minds", is stupid. They already hate us. There's nothing we're going to do to fix that. Bombing the crap out of them isn't going to make them hate us anymore than they arlready do.
We didn't have aproblem of not having enough military. It was a planning problem. An approach problem.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...xclusive-rumsfeld-unloads.html#post1059269913
His comment about going to war with the amry you have highlights this.
Gulf War 1 you Libs were all worried about the College Boys. Remember?Sure they did. Would anyone have expected anything different? Seriously? And the problems were predicted. Even Bush sr stated going into Iraq would be easy, leaving hard. Your side keeps acting like no one knew or expected the problems. That simply isn't true.
Again, a non-answer. They had plans by military planners. They had plans for years. Plans can never account for all variables. War is not instant soup.Seriously, not a good one, or a complete one, or one that accounted for what was reasonable to expect.
See above.See above.
Woodward wrote that Bush challenged those around him. There were reasons to have gone into Iraq years before. David Kay spelled them out well... as did Hans Blix. After 911 and connect-the-dots, Saddam was a serious threat even in the minds of many Dems. After years of Clinton wagging his finger and doing nothing (which emboldened terrorists)... Bush drew a line in the sand. Saddam had his chances and didn't take them. Perhaps because the UN proved to be as corrupt as he was... Oil-for-food anyone?Like too many, you misread Tenet. The slam dunk as wmds as an excuse. It was not a slam dunk as to the factual evidence. tenet himself clarified that alter, but frankly most you have caught that in context. They were talking about reasons to go into Iraq, Bush notes there is not enough evidence. Tenet argues it will work as an excuse, and says it is a slam dunk.
No, no, no... Hillary was 100% behind Bush, ans claimed inside info.And after Clinton bombed, his people said the threat was ended, over. A lot of people believed Saddam had some left over wmds. A lot fewer, to very few, actually believed he was growing and gathering. And when you take into account the state of his infastructure, there was no liklely hood he was the kind of threat Bush made him out to be.
CRG: Dr David Kay's Testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee
CORNYN:
First, would you agree that not only are our intelligence agencies but Democrats, Republicans, President Clinton, President Bush, France, Germany, Britain all believed that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD?
KAY: I think that's true.
CORNYN: And until your report after your long work with the Iraqi Survey Group, have you found that any one of those people or groups that I have identified have in fact learned that it was not true, but nevertheless tried to manipulate it and present it as fact for some improper purpose?
KAY: No, I know of no manipulation. I know of a lot of skepticism. And because it was such a widely held view and wanting to know the facts, I view that as absolutely appropriate.
CORNYN: So you know of no evidence, no indication that anyone tried to intentionally manipulate the intelligence that we got in order to justify going to war in Iraq.
KAY: I've seen no evidence of that...
CORNYN: Let me just try to nail down a couple of other facts.
CORNYN: ...Saddam -- ...did continue research on chemical and biological and even nuclear weapons, correct?
KAY: Absolutely.
CORNYN: Would you say, then, Dr. Kay, that it was just a matter of time before Saddam would build such stockpiles or have that capability in a way that would threaten not only people in Iraq, but people in that neighborhood and perhaps others?
KAY: I think you will have, when you get the final ISG report, pretty compelling evidence that Saddam had the intention of continuing the pursuit of WMD when the opportunity arose and that the first start on that, the long pole in the tent, was this restart of the long-range missile program.
CORNYN: So that, given time, these programs would have matured and Saddam would have been able to reconstitute his WMD arsenal?
KAY: I hesitate, Senator -- only I think that that's the safe assumption. What I don't know over time, and I'm more and more struck with, is how corrupt and destructive that society had become. But you can't count on when it would fall apart. And it might fall apart in ways that are far more dangerous. So I think that is a safe assumption.
CORNYN: You said something during your opening statement that intrigues me, and something that I'm afraid may be overlooked in all of this back and forth; and that has to do with proliferation.
You said that there was a risk of a willing seller meeting a willing buyer of such weapons or weapon stockpiles, whether they be large, small or programs, whether it's information that Iraqi scientists might be willing to sell or work in cooperation with rogue organizations or even nations.
But do you consider that to have been a real risk in terms of Saddam's activities and these programs -- the risk of proliferation?
KAY: Actually, I consider it a bigger risk. And that's why I paused on the preceding questions. I consider that a bigger risk than the restart of his programs being successful.
KAY: I think the way the society was going, and the number of willing buyers in the market, that that probably was a risk that if we did avoid, we barely avoided.
If you read the above between Cornyn and Kay... who is drinking what?I beg to differ, You're drinking the koolaid doesn't destory the list. Sorry. :coffeepap
I've got mixed feelings on Rumsfeld but I do believe he's a man of serious conviction, which I can respect even if I don't always agree. I also loved this quote from him ""As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time." But he should be more acknowledging of mistakes that were made under his leadership during the early years in Iraq.
Great man Rummy, and his bit about not wanting to be in the same foxhole as Clinton, Kerry, Biden is a kind way of saying they're treasonous, politically motivated back stabbers.
You said the following... now you wish to backtrack?
Gulf War 1 you Libs were all worried about the College Boys. Remember?
There are always challenges going to war. Always. The biggest is the anti-American left and their Betrayus type behavior. They vote to send troops and then stab them in the back. A vote of political expediency, and treason for the same reason.
Again, a non-answer. They had plans by military planners. They had plans for years. Plans can never account for all variables. War is not instant soup.
See above.
Woodward wrote that Bush challenged those around him. There were reasons to have gone into Iraq years before. David Kay spelled them out well... as did Hans Blix. After 911 and connect-the-dots, Saddam was a serious threat even in the minds of many Dems. After years of Clinton wagging his finger and doing nothing (which emboldened terrorists)... Bush drew a line in the sand. Saddam had his chances and didn't take them. Perhaps because the UN proved to be as corrupt as he was... Oil-for-food anyone?
No, no, no... Hillary was 100% behind Bush, ans claimed inside info.
If you read the above between Cornyn and Kay... who is drinking what?
Do I need to produce the CNN transcript of Blix stating he believed Saddam was hiding WMD? That he was still playing games? That he was not cooperating. That he had produced WEAPONIZED VX or ANTHRAX?
Do I?
Now, would you like to try again son?
Amnesia is setting in, don't you remember Shock and awe?We started fighting wars "humanely", which is used against us by the opposition, which doesn't give a crap.
When you fight a war, you bomb the crap out of everything in sight and kill tons of people. You use the same reasoning as when we hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then, you win. We don't do that anymore, which is why we don't win anymore.
From a military perspective, we won.
Amnesia is setting in, don't you remember Shock and awe?
The only answer is to kill everyone if they hate you all.
Are you prepared to have that on your conciense?
"War is merely the continuation of politics by other means.” - Carl von Clausewitz.
Whether we like it or not, warfare will always be an integral part of politics and policy. That is just the God's-honest truth. As for Rumsfeld, one of the worst SecDefs of all time. Most of the reviews I've read about the book seem to paint a picture of him just trying to place blame on others.
"War is an expression of diplomacy by other means"
If you get the quote right, you won't misinterpret it's meaning so badly.
War can't be fought from the political arena. Vietnam proved that.
Operation Market Garden was a politically motivated. Look how that turned out.
If they are hell bent on killing my countrymen, you bet your ass my concience is ready.
Most versions i've seen say "continuation" or "extension."
And it's not about whether or not war SHOULD be fought from a political arena. It's that they ARE fought from a political arena, and that that is a fact of life whether we like it or not because the ultimate objectives of war are always political in nature. All Vietnam proved was that there are just some wars that aren't good ideas.
They weren't here. We were there. This is an important point.
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