Europe Resists U.S. Push to Curb Iran Ties

[Volker]

I think you need to get a globe.

As long as no on provided me with a link that the earth isn't flat, Ill keep my disk :mrgreen:

Wow you do live in a fantasy world.
Started sooner?.. What’s that say about you since the US is only 230 years old? How old is Germany?

Germany is 1089 years old.

How many times has it been defeated and disarmed? Besides Weimaraners (which I have two) what good has come from you?.............:mrgreen:

The first computer has been built in Germayn and the MP3 format has been developed here :mrgreen:

Well from Jamaica going east you have Haiti. Again go buy yourself a globe.

Again, provide a link :mrgreen:

“Making since” is another way of saying “I understand”.

Please do tell me how you think the hezbolla won the conflict?
I cant wait for this one….

They did celebrate while the IDF thugs looked really sad.

 

[jfuh]

That comes from someone like you who always stay on topic and manage to answer relevant and reply on the sections of posts.

And this is answering the question or "staying on topic"?

 

[Volker]

If there is any lesson we should draw from the vicious muddle of the Crusades, it is that the West's internal rivalries were once our undoing and might be so again-at least for Europe, exposed, infiltrated, and hated.

Are you sure that the lesson to learn from the crusades is not that taking away Palestinian land will only work for a limited time?

 

[Moot]

You have no doubts because you are so antisemitic.

That's a lie. Because if what you said were even remotely true, then the Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace would be anti-semitic too. But IMO they are not or I wouldn't share their opinion.

Who are we?

Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, the Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace, is a national organization of American Jews deeply committed to Israel's well-being through a negotiated settlement to the long-standing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

We are guided by the mitzvah, or obligation, to pursue peace and justice, rooted in both secular and religious Jewish traditions.

We believe that the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians long for an enduring peace and that security for Israel can only be achieved through the establishment of an economically and politically viable Palestinian state, necessitating an end to Israel's occupation of land acquired during the 1967 war and an end to Palestinian terrorism.

Polls consistently affirm that the majority of American Jews share these views....read and join up.
Welcome to Brit Tzedek V'Shalom - Jewish Alliance for Justice & Peace

If you decide to join up Gardner, together we can promote tolerance of a range of views and an informed understanding of current events in the Middle East. How about it?

Since no Israel leader has ever voiced opinions even REMOTELY close to what the Iranians are vomiting forth, you are simply indulging in more of your hate-based demonization here that has no basis in anything that can be substantiated.

Well now, that's just your unsubstantiated opinion Gardner and one which I just happen not to share. That is allowed on this forum, isn't it?

As a side: Do you have any thing to address the topic, Gardner? Cause without it, it sure looks like you're trying to hijack this thread. Either that or you're stalking me.

 

[MSgt]

Are you sure that the lesson to learn from the crusades is not that taking away Palestinian land will only work for a limited time?

Nothing to do with what I said. But the forces that would slaughter and murder thrive on these types of sentiments that look to validate their behavior.

 

[Moot]

Please then provide a source where any Israeli leader ever made such sentiment.

What, you don't agree? :shock:

Well then, what do you think Israel's sentiments towards Iran are? Surely they must have an opinion on the matter? You do don't you? Come on, I showed you my opinion, now it's your turn to show me yours. Please tell me what you think Israel's sentiments towards Iran are? Enlighten me.

 

[Red_Dave]

This would be a good solution, it would be good if we could stop the US aggressors before they start something stupid again. Sure, the UK would need a new government to do that, one, who better represents its people.

I did know we supported theocracy:roll:. Surely its more sensible to back progressive factions within Iran* [thus making an invasion less likely] then defend a government that supports the killing of inocent people across the world.

*Tehran power struggle intensifies | Iran | Guardian Unlimited

Its absurd that so many asumme that just because american foriegn policy is wrong, anything group that it oposses is right. George Galloway used the same mentality was used to praise hezzbolah because Israels policy was wrong. Is it not possible they where both in the wrong?

 

[MSgt]

Its absurd that so many asumme that just because american foriegn policy is wrong, anything group that it oposses is right. George Galloway used the same mentality was used to praise hezzbolah because Israels policy was wrong. Is it not possible they where both in the wrong?

This is a very good point.

 

[Volker]

Nothing to do with what I said.

I know, but it makes more sense, doesn't it?

 

[Volker]

I did know we supported theocracy:roll:

This is not the problem I have with your government, it's was the support of the US government which was wrong.

Surely its more sensible to back progressive factions within Iran* [thus making an invasion less likely] then defend a government that supports the killing of inocent people across the world.

*Tehran power struggle intensifies | Iran | Guardian Unlimited

It's ok if you want to support Mr. Rafsanjani, but he is the rich guy who's government stood for privatization and making life more difficult for the working people with social reforms.

Its absurd that so many asumme that just because american foriegn policy is wrong, anything group that it oposses is right. George Galloway used the same mentality was used to praise hezzbolah because Israels policy was wrong. Is it not possible they where both in the wrong?

Not every group that opposes wrong American foreign policy is necessarly right about everything, but they are right in opposing wrong American foreign policy.

 

[MSgt]

I know, but it makes more sense, doesn't it?

Ummm..no. If you are going to declare the land belongs to someone based on historical existence, then go back before the select time you chose. Land ownership had nothing to do with what I said which was about the West's internal rivalries against an enemy. So...what you said didn't make too much sense.

 

[Gardener]

Well now, that's just your unsubstantiated opinion Gardner and one which I just happen not to share. That is allowed on this forum, isn't it?

As a side: Do you have any thing to address the topic, Gardner? Cause without it, it sure looks like you're trying to hijack this thread. Either that or you're stalking me.

Actually it was YOUR unsubstantiated opinion that I responed to, namely your libelous accusation that the people who have suffered a horrendous Holocaust are genocidal, themselves. You then compund this affront to the Jewish people by trying to claim your accusations are somehow synonomous with positions held by a Jewish group that voices no such libel. You then accuse ME of hijacking a thread in yet another example of your viscious turnspeak, when you are the one whose obsession demands you drag the Jewish state into so many conversations. On top of all the rest of this prevarication, you then suggest I am stalking you.

what nerve.

 

[Moot]

Actually it was YOUR unsubstantiated opinion that I responed to, namely your libelous accusation that the people who have suffered a horrendous Holocaust are genocidal, themselves. You then compund this affront to the Jewish people by trying to claim your accusations are somehow synonomous with positions held by a Jewish group that voices no such libel. You then accuse ME of hijacking a thread in yet another example of your viscious turnspeak, when you are the one whose obsession demands you drag the Jewish state into so many conversations. On top of all the rest of this prevarication, you then suggest I am stalking you.

what nerve.

What does your self-rightous indignation have to do with the topic of "Europe resisting US push to curb Iran ties?" Answer: absolutely nothing.

Don't the forum rules apply to you, Gardner?

Here's your last chance to address the topic: Do you think Europe should resist, block or stand in the way of US-Israeli aggresssion against Iran?

 

[jfuh]

What, you don't agree? :shock:

Well then, what do you think Israel's sentiments towards Iran are? Surely they must have an opinion on the matter? You do don't you? Come on, I showed you my opinion, now it's your turn to show me yours. Please tell me what you think Israel's sentiments towards Iran are? Enlighten me.

You made the claim, the burden of proof rests with you. I'm asking you to show the source where you base your assertion on.

 

[Moot]

You made the claim, the burden of proof rests with you. I'm asking you to show the source where you base your assertion on.

I don't understand why you need to see a source when Lebanon is proof enough.

 

[EAGLE1]

This is not the problem I have with your government, it's was the support of the US government which was wrong.

It's ok if you want to support Mr. Rafsanjani, but he is the rich guy who's government stood for privatization and making life more difficult for the working people with social reforms.

Not every group that opposes wrong American foreign policy is necessarly right about everything, but they are right in opposing wrong American foreign policy.

Quite right. Just because you dont support war with Iran it doesnt mean you think a theocracy is a great idea either. However, we had our chance to help a democracy there in the 50s and we blew it so we just have to accept whatever way they run things there now. Blame Grandpa.

It makes no sense what so ever for the west to antagonise the Iranian mullahs. Why? Because they use it as a rallying cry to defend their tired regime for another 20 years. Thats why.
The only way is to decrease the tension to the point where the young population forget about international politics and remember again how sick they are of the way things are run there.

You dont want Iran to have nuclear power because you fear they may build nukes? Then make them an offer to get rid of every single nuclear weapon in the ME. Wanna make sure Isreal has an ultimate defence against attack?Then make an allied declaration of intent to defend Israel with the nuke option if necessary. While your at it build a number of nuclear power stations in nearby acceptable countries and pipe the power in to Iran for free. Dont wanna do that? Then get the **** out of their business.

Thus ends international politics 101. :lol:

 

[Red_Dave]

Quite right. Just because you dont support war with Iran it doesnt mean you think a theocracy is a great idea either. However, we had our chance to help a democracy there in the 50s and we blew it so we just have to accept whatever way they run things there now. Blame Grandpa.

It makes no sense what so ever for the west to antagonise the Iranian mullahs. Why? Because they use it as a rallying cry to defend their tired regime for another 20 years. Thats why.
The only way is to decrease the tension to the point where the young population forget about international politics and remember again how sick they are of the way things are run there.

You dont want Iran to have nuclear power because you fear they may build nukes? Then make them an offer to get rid of every single nuclear weapon in the ME. Wanna make sure Isreal has an ultimate defence against attack?Then make an allied declaration of intent to defend Israel with the nuke option if necessary. While your at it build a number of nuclear power stations in nearby acceptable countries and pipe the power in to Iran for free. Dont wanna do that? Then get the **** out of their business.

Thus ends international politics 101. :lol:

But surely by sending troops to defend Iran as you surgest your defending its theocratic government and thus defending theocracy. I dont think a full scale war with Iran is the best way to deal with the situation at the moment but that doesnt mean that if i joined the brittish army ild want to fight to defend such an appaling regime. An invasion of Iran would doubtlessly end in a bloodbath but at the same time the world would be a safer place if it wherent for the mullahs. Is theocracy really worth defending?

The mullahs are happy to pledge there support to people that are trying to kill me for the crime of getting on a train while english. Of course its my buissness:roll:

 

[Volker]

It makes no sense what so ever for the west to antagonise the Iranian mullahs. Why? Because they use it as a rallying cry to defend their tired regime for another 20 years. Thats why.
The only way is to decrease the tension to the point where the young population forget about international politics and remember again how sick they are of the way things are run there.

This somehow raises the question if this conflict with Iran is communicated this way because it does have a function within the American politics.

You dont want Iran to have nuclear power because you fear they may build nukes? Then make them an offer to get rid of every single nuclear weapon in the ME. Wanna make sure Isreal has an ultimate defence against attack?Then make an allied declaration of intent to defend Israel with the nuke option if necessary. While your at it build a number of nuclear power stations in nearby acceptable countries and pipe the power in to Iran for free.

These are fresh ideas :mrgreen:
However, if Iran actually want to have this weapon, for not Israel having it would not solve the problem. As long as the US has one and they are shipping around with like 50 warships in the Persian Gulf, the motivation for them to have such a weapon would be not removed.

Thus ends international politics 101. :lol:

:mrgreen:

 

[Volker]

But surely by sending troops to defend Iran as you surgest your defending its theocratic government and thus defending theocracy. I dont think a full scale war with Iran is the best way to deal with the situation at the moment but that doesnt mean that if i joined the brittish army ild want to fight to defend such an appaling regime. An invasion of Iran would doubtlessly end in a bloodbath but at the same time the world would be a safer place if it wherent for the mullahs. Is theocracy really worth defending?

Is theocracy such a big problem? The Vatican is a theocracy, too, and if someone would come to make trouble there, probably European troops would help the Vatican. As for being the world would be a safer place, I am pretty sure, the world would be a safer place without the US and UK leaders who are in charge now, Iran has not been attacking another country for a long time.

The mullahs are happy to pledge there support to people that are trying to kill me for the crime of getting on a train while english. Of course its my buissness:roll:

The Iranian government has critisized London becoming a harbour for all kind of terrorists for many years, years before the train bombings, too, but your government knew better, where did you hear some pledge of support for the train bombings?

 

[Red_Dave]

Is theocracy such a big problem? The Vatican is a theocracy, too, and if someone would come to make trouble there, probably European troops would help the Vatican. As for being the world would be a safer place, I am pretty sure, the world would be a safer place without the US and UK leaders who are in charge now, Iran has not been attacking another country for a long time.

The Iranian government has critisized London becoming a harbour for all kind of terrorists for many years, years before the train bombings, too, but your government knew better, where did you hear some pledge of support for the train bombings?

If it leads to political repression and terroism then yes, theocracy is a problem. The vatican may have done this in the not to distant past but its no longer much of a threat in this regard.

I actively oposse US and UK foreign policy but that doesnt take away the threat possed by Iran. It doesnt take away the lack of human rights those in Iran have. It doesnt take away the genocide being commited by Irans allys in africa. It doesnt take away there support for palestinian terroists who make life hell for those on both sides. It doesnt take away support for organisation like hezzbollah who target civillians [i know Israel does to] It would make life alot easyer if life was that black and white, but it isnt.Iran has backed islamic fundamentalism across the world and its islamic fundamentalism that currently threatens european citizens.

 

[Volker]

If it leads to political repression and terroism then yes, theocracy is a problem. The vatican may have done this in the not to distant past but its no longer much of a threat in this regard.

The Vatican does not allow many of his citizens to marry, now do you see many people demonstrating because of it? At least I don't care. Because the Vatican is the only area with a lower birthrate than East Germany, we kinda statistically profit from it

I actively oposse US and UK foreign policy but that doesnt take away the threat possed by Iran. It doesnt take away the lack of human rights those in Iran have. It doesnt take away the genocide being commited by Irans allys in africa. It doesnt take away there support for palestinian terroists who make life hell for those on both sides. It doesnt take away support for organisation like hezzbollah who target civillians [i know Israel does to] It would make life alot easyer if life was that black and white, but it isnt.Iran has backed islamic fundamentalism across the world and its islamic fundamentalism that currently threatens european citizens.

No one said something about the world being black and white. We could discuss the accusations you mentioned here. I don't know, where Iran threaten Europeans. Last time I checked, Iran helped Europeans, this was in Bosnia. Well, if you talk about they somehow support Iraqi people to deal with those British freaks in Basra, I couldn't care less.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

If it leads to political repression and terroism then yes, theocracy is a problem. The vatican may have done this in the not to distant past but its no longer much of a threat in this regard.

I actively oposse US and UK foreign policy but that doesnt take away the threat possed by Iran. It doesnt take away the lack of human rights those in Iran have. It doesnt take away the genocide being commited by Irans allys in africa. It doesnt take away there support for palestinian terroists who make life hell for those on both sides. It doesnt take away support for organisation like hezzbollah who target civillians [i know Israel does to] It would make life alot easyer if life was that black and white, but it isnt.Iran has backed islamic fundamentalism across the world and its islamic fundamentalism that currently threatens european citizens.

Would there be an Iran or islamic fundamentalist threat today like there is now if not for the way the US and the UK reacted after 911, and Yes, I am thinking especially about Iraq.

 

[Gardener]

THe fact that you would rephrase the original question in such a way as to completely pervert it to the point you end up with this particular phraseology indicates quite a twisted mind at work. The only possibility I can think of to explain such underhandedness is hatred. I suppose I should also consider psychosis, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Volker]

THe fact that you would rephrase the original question in such a way as to completely pervert it to the point you end up with this particular phraseology indicates quite a twisted mind at work. The only possibility I can think of to explain such underhandedness is hatred. I suppose I should also consider psychosis, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

The fact that you still balk at going back on topic and continue with your absurd personal attacks here indicates that you're a troll who only wants to disturb this thread.

 

[cherokee]

THe group did say they did it because of the Iraq war, and the US dragged the UK(tony blair the dictator) to Iraq. So yes, the attacks in London, AND Madrid was the fault of ignorant, stupid, incompetent US foreign policies.

It’s nice to see your true colors coming thru. A terrorist sympathizer.
The people who died in Spain and the UK had nothing to do
with a G.o d D a.m.n thing!
but Islamic cowards like you and the people who carried out these attacks justify them by saying “its because of their government”

FINE, that works both ways pal.
With your logic I can justify a WAR against
ALL OF ISLAM because of the militants.