Ending Public Schools [W:961]

[Fiddytree]

Re: Ending Public Schools

If special needs is not a comfort term would you be just as happy with a term like broke-dick child?

Exaggeration mixed with obliviousness and offensiveness.

Check.

Bravo. Keep going.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Exaggeration mixed with obliviousness and offensiveness.
Check.
Bravo. Keep going.

If it is just a label what difference does it make?

Thank you for obviously making my point while you try to disagree.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Ending Public Schools

If it is just a label what difference does it make?

Thank you for obviously making my point while you try to disagree.

Would you like Erectile Dysfunction to be labeled as "Limp Dick Loser?" How about Alzheimers should be labeled, "Can't Remember the Name of the Woman I bang."

There's a difference between it being a legitimate condition and then being an ass about the terminology rather than serious.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ending Public Schools

The simple answer is "No."

As for your source, you should read more.


I went two levels deep in Wikipedia. That is enough for me.


NCLB should be scrapped, don't you agree?

I read the enitre article, and I don't know why you think that phrase is important. Texas likley model their program after an old one (don't see much original thought in Bush adminsitrations ), but what we got was a Bush program push due to a false texas miracle.

And I knew NCLB should have never been proposed in the first place. No Bush, no proposal.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ending Public Schools

And that must have been an inner-city school. Yep. We're failing there. Poor gang-infested neighborhoods = Poor schools. I personally don't think we're trying hard enough to fix 'em. But charter schools are being given a shot. For the most part, though, they aren't doing much better. You can't fix poor gang-infested neighborhood schools. You've got to fix the neighborhood first.

I do agree the problme is complex and will require more than just the schools. Parents and neighborhoods will also have to be tackled. And that is hard. Not an excuse for not trying, mind you, but hard.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Ending Public Schools

There is contrary evidence in a book I am reading by Thomas Sowell.
I believe him. The people need to be fixed not the neighborhood.

They are one in the same, Misterveritis.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Now that would solve a great many problems.

Quit dreaming...

If you had to pay for the private school first, even if you did not attend, and then had to pay in addition to attend a public school would you say that the public school was in fair competition with the private school?

Unless you a highly taxable piece of property you are not paying over 5k in tax's that would go to the schools.

Do you not see this? People who choose a private school have to pay for the public schools they are not using. That is not competition. It is monopolistic coercion. It is government coercion.

people who do not have kids in school also pay for public schools, so you have no legal argument here.

I do not think you are capable of understanding. It is not much of a choice if one must pay for both in order to choose. It is the same as having to pay the post office even when you choose to use FedEx.

Do me a favor and mind what you are capable of understanding and I will tend to my own understandings.

Again you are not paying full price for schools you are only paying a small portion. Lets look at insurance instead of your lame examples. When you pay your premium and do not really use it all year and someone else did what is happening there?? Why should I pay for someone elses use of something that I did not use?

Do you not see that when you have to pay for the government-run school even if you choose not to use it that is not a choice most can afford. If you had to pay Nike's price even though you bought New Balance would you consider that much of a choice?

You are not buying Nike priced schooling.

Tell me where this happens in the United States. I do not know of any place in the US where one can opt out of paying for public schools.


Only the ones capable of understanding...

Obviously you did not understand what I said. I said that if your movement actually did something other than whining about pulling your own weight that you would have built more private schools and therefore there would be less need for public schools. Hence lowering the amount that everyone pays. I did not say that you could opt out of paying your tax's. Please pay more attention instead of jumping to silly conclusions.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Would you like Erectile Dysfunction to be labeled as "Limp Dick Loser?" How about Alzheimers should be labeled, "Can't Remember the Name of the Woman I bang."

There's a difference between it being a legitimate condition and then being an ass about the terminology rather than serious.

LOL. Okay. I poorly made the point that special needs is a comfort term by showing that the label matters. I expected the software to asterisk out d**k. Perhaps one of the moderators can fix it for me.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Would you like Erectile Dysfunction to be labeled as "Limp Dick Loser?" How about Alzheimers should be labeled, "Can't Remember the Name of the Woman I bang."

There's a difference between it being a legitimate condition and then being an ass about the terminology rather than serious.

What condition is "special needs"?

Now I shall try to get us back on track to discussing all of our needs and not just a small segment of the populations.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

I read the enitre article, and I don't know why you think that phrase is important. Texas likley model their program after an old one (don't see much original thought in Bush adminsitrations ), but what we got was a Bush program push due to a false texas miracle.

And I knew NCLB should have never been proposed in the first place. No Bush, no proposal.

Hi Boo, I went back and looked. I placed the quote tag in the wrong spot. You told me I should read the entire article. So I did.

We do agree that No Child Left Behind is a bad idea. It should not be renewed.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

They are one in the same, Misterveritis.

Ah, yes. I can see how you meant it. We do agree.

 

[zstep18]

Re: Ending Public Schools

What condition is "special needs"?

Now I shall try to get us back on track to discussing all of our needs and not just a small segment of the populations.

Requiring assistance due to mental, medical, and psychological disabilities. A person who was autistic or had Down syndrome would qualify as "special needs".

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Hi Boo, I went back and looked. I placed the quote tag in the wrong spot. You told me I should read the entire article. So I did.

We do agree that No Child Left Behind is a bad idea. It should not be renewed.

Not renewed? It should never have been implimented to begin with.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Requiring assistance due to mental, medical, and psychological disabilities. A person who was autistic or had Down syndrome would qualify as "special needs".

So it isn't really a condition at all. Autism is. Down syndrome is. Special needs is not.

Thank you. Now back to changing the way we think about education, what it means to be educated and how we create the environment where you get the experiences you want for you and I get the experiences I want for me.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Not renewed? It should never have been implimented to begin with.

You see Boo, we can agree on a few things.

 

[Vallista]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Public schools do work. Washington State has a great public school system.

 

[Gina]

Re: Ending Public Schools

First of all Nike is not a public school. Second the cost is spread between everyone in the community so we do not pay full price per student ourselves.

Again your movement can just cut themselves off of the public school tit and the tax's would go down accordingly. Be a leader instead of a whiner then perhaps people would listen?

That fact has been lost in this discussion by those who think ending public schools means parents will be relieved of the taxes that support public schools. That is just not true and none of us with kids in public school, pay enough in taxes to cover what it costs the schools, per student. Even if someone has an amazingly valuable piece of property, the taxes are proportioned out to pay for other city expenses and does not go directly to schools. Further, those without kids are also paying to support schools even though they have no direct benefit. Vouchers would not eliminate that fact either, they would be supported by everyone's taxes.

Thanks for bringing that into the discussion.

 

[Misterveritis]

Re: Ending Public Schools

That fact has been lost in this discussion by those who think ending public schools means parents will be relieved of the taxes that support public schools. That is just not true and none of us with kids in public school, pay enough in taxes to cover what it costs the schools, per student. Even if someone has an amazingly valuable piece of property, the taxes are proportioned out to pay for other city expenses and does not go directly to schools. Further, those without kids are also paying to support schools even though they have no direct benefit. Vouchers would not eliminate that fact either, they would be supported by everyone's taxes.

Thanks for bringing that into the discussion.

This is a big reason why the system is broken. The people who use it do not pay its full value. In fact many people believe that their education is "free". This is similar to health care where someone else pays the bulk of the costs. I can have as much as I want, I can waste it, squander it or throw it away because I, the user, have no idea what it costs, nor do I care as I am not paying for it.

A good first step toward eliminating government-run schools would be to bill the users.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Ending Public Schools

This is a big reason why the system is broken. The people who use it do not pay its full value. In fact many people believe that their education is "free". This is similar to health care where someone else pays the bulk of the costs. I can have as much as I want, I can waste it, squander it or throw it away because I, the user, have no idea what it costs, nor do I care as I am not paying for it.

A good first step toward eliminating government-run schools would be to bill the users.

I wonder exactly how someone would squander a public school or throw it away? As an employer I want people that can read an measuring tape or figure out square feet. Mostly they just clean the shop but some can do more. I would hate to only have employees that can only clean the shop. The point of public schooling is to provide an education that gives the opportunity for all Americans to be productive contributors to society.



If you take away public schools more Americans will be forced onto welfare since they will lack the education to do much more than dig ditches. Its called social investment and is exactly what the compliants are about a work force lacking an tech education. If you get your way we will even lack workers that can work in fast food much less high tech jobs.

 

[zstep18]

Re: Ending Public Schools

So it isn't really a condition at all. Autism is. Down syndrome is. Special needs is not.

What? Autism and Down syndrome are specific conditions. "Special needs" is a broad term which includes many different mental, medical, and psychological conditions.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Ending Public Schools

What? Autism and Down syndrome are specific conditions. "Special needs" is a broad term which includes many different mental, medical, and psychological conditions.

He's trying to reduce the point I was making by taking an umbrella term and using specific conditions he would be aware of to then use his method of changing the term into something like "Broke Dick Child."

 

[zstep18]

Re: Ending Public Schools

He's trying to reduce the point I was making by taking an umbrella term and using specific conditions he would be aware of to then use his method of changing the term into something like "Broke Dick Child."

I don't see how the term, "special needs" is NOT appropriate. People in this group require specific, different.....special needs.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Now I shall try to get us back on track to discussing all of our needs and not just a small segment of the populations.

You can discuss the majority, but in a system where you proposed the elimination of not just the entire public school system, but also the laws which protect and aid minorities in education, you have to come to terms with the fact that I was raising actual issues of significance. On the whole, your proposal, and that of the OP, would have immense consequences over the education of millions. I have, and would continue to give you actual situations which play out in the public education system, for you to compare to the private education system, and I can give you actual situations in the private institutions so you can get a feel for how things work in our world. It's not usually pretty, though there are moments of success and brilliance.

Do you frequently see policy discussions where serious considerations for minorities do not get air time? It's not frequent that those objections to a proposal come up without a segment of the population discussing why. That's the political and policy process.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Ending Public Schools

I don't see how the term, "special needs" is NOT appropriate. People in this group require specific, different.....special needs.

Certainly. The poster in question does not see it in those terms, but rather the proposition that my needs are in similar categories as his needs, and often sees his life as comparable to mine, hence why our protections needn't be there and that people's natural good inclinations will shine through the marketplace.

 

[zstep18]

Re: Ending Public Schools

Certainly. The poster in question does not see it in those terms, but rather the proposition that my needs are in similar categories as his needs, and often sees his life as comparable to mine, hence why our protections needn't be there and that people's natural good inclinations will shine through the marketplace.

Well that's silly.