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Ending 'don't ask, don't tell' would undermine religious liberty

how is that, you said the same thing
 
I decided not to read all the pages here because I know what the homophodes/religious nuts think about this subject and I don't need to read more of it.

Let me just say that, if your religion makes you so ignorant that you think you're not exposed to homosexuality on a daily basis without your knowledge and thereby, without damaging you, then your religion should not be tolerated because it is doing more harm to you than the guy who wants to jump on that grenade to save your miserable life.

Frankly, there isn't much in this world that would bring a bigger smile to my face than to see all the ignorant homophobes and religious meat sacks leave the military over this policy as it would expose the world to this particular stupidity that is rampant in this country. That just might make enough people shame the dumbasses into silence or into fringe nutbag categories, like the KKK.
 
MXracer169 said:
how is that, you said the same thing
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What "role" do you think is "different" between what you do, and I did?


That I humped about 60lbs more gear than you?


****, I was too damn tired to worry about where you liked to put your junk. :lol:
 
well if you honestly think you did the same thing I did, than there is no point discussing this with you. Keep talking yourself up buddy, I'm sorry your ego requires it.
 
Here is a difference in our roles-
Marines: Battle of Fallujah, Ramadi, Karmah etc....

Air Force: Al Asad, TQ, Ali Al Salim, McDonalds, Starbucks, monthly showers, hot food, weapons that never get fired
 
MXracer169 said:
well if you honestly think you did the same thing I did, than there is no point discussing this with you. Keep talking yourself up buddy, I'm sorry your ego requires it.
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Well, I never said I did the same thing you did, see I had to do it all while humping a ton of c2 gear, along with different targeting systems sometimes while under fire, so yeah, while your worried about where Johnny puts his blood engorged member, remember everyone hates the USAF until the 1st JDAM starts flying. :shrug:
 
MXracer169 said:
Here is a difference in our roles-
Marines: Battle of Fallujah, Ramadi, Karmah etc....

Air Force: Al Asad, TQ, Ali Al Salim, McDonalds, Starbucks, monthly showers, hot food, weapons that never get fired
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In a thread about gays in the military and DADT, why are you trying to impress another male, seems kinda geigh brother. :pimpdaddy: :lamo
 
MXracer169 said:
ADK- the military doesnt want change. Every single poll taken of the military shows that, and just because we gave up having a real war fighter (Gen. Pace) for a navy figurehead (Adm. Mullen) doesn't mean that his comments are reflected by his men's will. Mullen will say whatever it takes to keep his job, and is also a Navy admiral, the Navy doesn't put boots on the ground like infantry units do (exceptions of course to SEALS and Corpsmen). What to you is exactly "boots on the ground"? The massive majority of people who go to Iraq/Afghanistan will NEVER fire their weapons. Most people suppport the 1-5% (Army-USMC infantry) units that actually are out fighting, the majority has a different job.I believe that gays should be able to serve in the massive majority of the military.
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Of course the military doesn't want change. They didn't want change when it came to desegregating blacks, they didn't want change when it came to desegregating women, they still don't want change when it comes to front-line female troops and they don't want change when it comes to gays in uniform. Who gives a damn what they want though? These are all changes that were or are going to be imposed on them whether they want it or not, they're not special because they've got guns and testosterone, they have to deal with the same realities that everyone else has to.

The sooner they grow the hell up and deal with it, the better.
 
you're the one who started it! I've humped my share too buddy but I'm really not trying to get into a pissing contest (that we sort have already). I was outside the wire for months at a time, and saw some Rangers, Airborne, and SEALs out there with us, but never AF, only time I saw them was at the big AC'd bases!I have a good buddy in AF EOD, lots of respect for those guys.
We called in all our air by ourselves, and our AO was only USMC airsupport, but I'm sure you did your job just fine man. Whatever Army unit you helped with probably loved your CAS help. I have no problem with what you do, neither job is more honorable than the other. You believe gays should be in the military, so do I, just not in ceratin units. You never served in a infantry unit, and we have a right to our oppinions just as you. Only difference is we dissagree on an issue, thats it.
 
MXracer169 said:
you're the one who started it! I've humped my share too buddy but I'm really not trying to get into a pissing contest (that we sort have already). I was outside the wire for months at a time, and saw some Rangers, Airborne, and SEALs out there with us, but never AF, only time I saw them was at the big AC'd bases!I have a good buddy in AF EOD, lots of respect for those guys.
We called in all our air by ourselves, and our AO was only USMC airsupport, but I'm sure you did your job just fine man. Whatever Army unit you helped with probably loved your CAS help. I have no problem with what you do, neither job is more honorable than the other. You believe gays should be in the military, so do I, just not in ceratin units. You never served in a infantry unit, and we have a right to our oppinions just as you. Only difference is we dissagree on an issue, thats it.
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Marines are not supposed to whine. :2razz:


I started nothing. I simply said most who serve don't make thier service about thier junk. Why do you?



I'm going to let you google TACP and get back to me before you live up to the stereotype some have that Marines are of lesser intelligence. I don't believe this to be true of you or the Marines. Go on Google it, then get back to me. :lamo
 
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PS-there are a lot of reasons girls are not allowed in the infantry, and there are reasons gays probably won't be either.
 
I know what your job was, and it wasn't anything like what I did... why are you so insecure in what you did that you have to try to compare your job to mine and brag about how much you can hump... I think you should be proud of what you did. Most people that join the infantry do it because they want to fight, and have very high intelligence. You are sure living up to the stereotype of the support role POG (google that if you don't know what it means) who tries to act like they are some BA warfighter. Stop trying to justify your job to me, be proud of what you did instead.

Why cant your recognize that we had different jobs, and have different views? neither view is more valid, I respect your view just don't agree.
 
MXracer169 said:
I know what your job was, and it wasn't anything like what I did... why are you so insecure in what you did that you have to try to compare your job to mine and brag about how much you can hump... I think you should be proud of what you did. Most people that join the infantry do it because they want to fight, and have very high intelligence. You are sure living up to the stereotype of the support role POG (google that if you don't know what it means) who tries to act like they are some BA warfighter. Stop trying to justify your job to me, be proud of what you did instead.

Why cant your recognize that we had different jobs, and have different views? neither view is more valid, I respect your view just don't agree.
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:lol: I'm not the one running around with the big mouth, acting like a tough internet marine.


If you looked up what I did, you wouldn't be calling me a "POG".... :shrug:




Stop making a fool of yourself, no one cares about what you do with your genitalia when out of uniform. :shrug:
 
jailman- yeah pretty much the sugar and spice thing haha that was a good one!

What a touchy issue! I definately am the under dog on this one....
 
MXracer169 said:
jailman- yeah pretty much the sugar and spice thing haha that was a good one!

What a touchy issue! I definately am the under dog on this one....
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So you are saying you are a bottom? :2razz: :ssst:
 
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MXracer169 said:
jailman- yeah pretty much the sugar and spice thing haha that was a good one!

What a touchy issue! I definately am the under dog on this one....
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No no no...there are no underdogs here. I am just curious as to what you think disqualifies a gay man from serving in the infantry.
 
Grunt=infantry, POG= Person Other than Grunt, You=POG.

Sorry POG, you are the one who thinks you do the same thing I did. You know nothing about an infantry unit and how it works, and you are still trying to justify yourself. Take some pride in what you did. I could care less what your sexuality is, I don't dislike homosexuals.

I havent worn a uniform in a long time, and you are showing your ignorance by calling me gay as if it was an insult. I am straight since it deeply concerns you this much, and wouldn't insult someone for being gay, that is their lifestyle choice.
Either way, have a great day... back to the grind at college!
 
MXracer169 said:
Grunt=infantry, POG= Person Other than Grunt, You=POG.

Sorry POG, you are the one who thinks you do the same thing I did. You know nothing about an infantry unit and how it works, and you are still trying to justify yourself. Take some pride in what you did. I could care less what your sexuality is, I don't dislike homosexuals.

I havent worn a uniform in a long time, and you are showing your ignorance by calling me gay as if it was an insult. I am straight since it deeply concerns you this much, and wouldn't insult someone for being gay, that is their lifestyle choice.
Either way, have a great day... back to the grind at college!
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Are you having a tantrum? I never called you gay, and don't care if you are. as far as your need to call me a "POG", well, it just shows you how ignorant you are. :shrug: Do yourself a favor, GOOGLE TACP so you can stop embarrassing yourself already. :lamo
 
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jallman said:
You mind sharing those reasons?
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Infantry Units (at least, the Marine Infantry units I was blessed to serve with and observe) require a level of cooperation, trust, and frankly intimacy which is strongly hampered by the presence of sexual tension. we had more than a couple of guys who came in racist and got along just fine with their black brothers once we'd all been together a bit; but the sex drive is too powerful a part of humanity; you can't just 'grow out of it' the way you can racial tension. I have interacted with plenty of mixed gender POG units as well (i left my grunts to become one when i reenlisted); i have yet to see any mix-gender unit that hasn't had issues of professionalism / good order and discipline from the presence of young males and females serving together. you can afford that stuff in a "shop" while minimizing its' damages. you can't minimize those damages in a grunt unit -the price will be paid in decreased combat efficiency, which means it will be paid in blood.
 
MXracer169 said:
ADK- the military doesnt want change. Every single poll taken of the military shows that, and just because we gave up having a real war fighter (Gen. Pace) for a navy figurehead (Adm. Mullen) doesn't mean that his comments are reflected by his men's will. Mullen will say whatever it takes to keep his job, and is also a Navy admiral, the Navy doesn't put boots on the ground like infantry units do (exceptions of course to SEALS and Corpsmen). What to you is exactly "boots on the ground"? The massive majority of people who go to Iraq/Afghanistan will NEVER fire their weapons. Most people suppport the 1-5% (Army-USMC infantry) units that actually are out fighting, the majority has a different job.I believe that gays should be able to serve in the massive majority of the military.
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78% of civilians want DADT repealed. 58% of the military don't. Who do you think is going to win? Look at those #s. The military against repealing DADT is only 8% from it being 50 - 50. That's pretty damn close.

Keep in mind it's pretty easy to say in a poll that you're against gays in the military. It's also very easy to say in a poll that you would resign or quit if DADT was repealed, and the # is still only 58% against. In reality, 99.99% won't do anything any different when it happens.

Will it be easier for some units to accept openly gays? Probably. But, it won't be unit cohesion issues. It will be all the dumb crap about where will they sleep, bath and take a dump... as if that is really going to be an issue. They're not issues now. :roll: I took showers with, took dumps next to and slept in bunks above and below known gays. Not once did I ever think one of them was going to come after me.

The change will go one step at a time, just like accepting blacks and women went. Now they're going to allow women officers on subs! OMG the sky is falling! :roll: Keep in mind that gays are in ALL units right now. And most of the unit knows it! There's active officers and enlisted on this forum who can attest to that right now. They're not causing any problems now so why would a sane person think them being "out" would cause any new problems in the unit. They wouldn't.

The problem is the chest thumping attitude of those men who aren't strong enough in their own manhood to openly accept that gays should be open.

The military leaders are smarter than the rest and they see the bigger picture. It's coming and there is nothing that can stop it. Some day you just might see a General Barney Frank type leading our troops against the evils in the world. And his troops will be just as loyal to him as they are to Generals Petreaus, Powell and the others.
 
I still dont see what the issue is, ADK and Reverand had different jobs than cpwill and I, and both of you think gays would do just fine doing what ever it was you did. We feel that unit cohesion would slip away, and both of us can speak from personal experience. You guys werent in the infantry, you don't know what it takes to have a cohesive unit like we do.

Rev- man you are in some type of ridiculous denial, you have one hell of a time accepting certain facts. Youre were a POG, no way around it. Do yourself a favor and google POG, they have your picture up there.

When the AF has a job field titled "Infantry" than you can become a grunt. If you wanted to be a grunt so bad, why didnt you join the Army or Marines? No service or job is better than the other, and ALL jobs are equally honorable and important. However, they are different; is that really that hard for you to accept?
 
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