• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

End all education in america

ElCid

ElCid

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,784
Reaction score
233
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Just kill it. Why dither and dally about with these circular-reasoning drills? Just end education in America. Close the doors and windows. Nail them shut. Tell the kids to stay home on the couch, playing video-games, or make them work at McDonald's. NO MORE TEACHERS, STUDENTS, SCHOOLS, BOOKS, SUPERINTENDANTS OR TAXES. End it all. Let the Chinese rule. :coffeepap
 
ElCid said:
Just kill it. Why dither and dally about with these circular-reasoning drills? Just end education in America. Close the doors and windows. Nail them shut. Tell the kids to stay home on the couch, playing video-games, or make them work at McDonald's. NO MORE TEACHERS, STUDENTS, SCHOOLS, BOOKS, SUPERINTENDANTS OR TAXES. End it all. Let the Chinese rule. :coffeepap
Click to expand...

This should be moved to the Basement...
 
ElCid said:
Just kill it. Why dither and dally about with these circular-reasoning drills? Just end education in America. Close the doors and windows. Nail them shut. Tell the kids to stay home on the couch, playing video-games, or make them work at McDonald's. NO MORE TEACHERS, STUDENTS, SCHOOLS, BOOKS, SUPERINTENDANTS OR TAXES. End it all. Let the Chinese rule. :coffeepap
Click to expand...
By any chance, did your parents have the same philosophy? :mrgreen:

J/k

I get that this is sarcasm, but it would helpful to know what you're actually ranting about.
 
The stupidity of American society regarding education. Everybody's crying about our deficiencies in math and science, but they also want to cut education down to stubble, now that the economy is bad. PULL YOUR OUT, AMERICA. You can't have or do both.
 
ElCid said:
The stupidity of American society regarding education. Everybody's crying about our deficiencies in math and science, but they also want to cut education down to stubble, now that the economy is bad. PULL YOUR OUT, AMERICA. You can't have or do both.
Click to expand...

I really don't see how paying more taxes to the federal government improve education when most schools are funded by local property taxes.
 
ElCid said:
Just kill it. Why dither and dally about with these circular-reasoning drills? Just end education in America. Close the doors and windows. Nail them shut. Tell the kids to stay home on the couch, playing video-games, or make them work at McDonald's. NO MORE TEACHERS, STUDENTS, SCHOOLS, BOOKS, SUPERINTENDANTS OR TAXES. End it all. Let the Chinese rule. :coffeepap
Click to expand...

No more pencils.
No more books.
No more teachers' dirty looks.
 
X Factor said:
I really don't see how paying more taxes to the federal government improve education when most schools are funded by local property taxes.
Click to expand...

All States are slashing like crazy. Funding is so intermixed, it's mind-boggling. Bottom-line: THE SAME SHEEPLE WHO ARE CRYING ABOUT OUR SHORTAGE OF MATHEMATICIANS AND SCIENTISTS WANT EDUCATION CHOPPED INTO MINCED MEAT. We be stupid.....like real, real stupid, Dog. Real talk.
 
samsmart said:
No more pencils.
No more books.
No more teachers' dirty looks.
Click to expand...

No more looks of dirt,
No more feigned hurt.
Nothing but easy times,
Full of video-games, spicy chitos, and 'hood crimes.
 
While I don't agree this is what we should do, I certainly agree that the way we're going, we're going to end up in this kind of situation. We already are to large extent. Our not-so-distant ancestors would laugh at what passes for "education" these days.
 
ashurbanipal said:
While I don't agree this is what we should do, I certainly agree that the way we're going, we're going to end up in this kind of situation. We already are to large extent. Our not-so-distant ancestors would laugh at what passes for "education" these days.
Click to expand...

Can you point to a specific time in history where we had a better educational system and back up that allegation with facts?

Our literacy rate is the highest of all time, we are now teaching about computers in elementary school (I never touched a computer until I was in college), we have the highest percentage of young people attending school ever, we have the largest ever percent continuing on to college. Most colleges now REQUIRE that students take 2-3 years of a foreign language before be admitted to college. Mathematics classes in college below calculus are now considered "remedial".

The biggest change that we have had in curriculum is that we have dropped the slide rule and now use calculators, and we have dropped Latin for languages that are actually spoken in other countries. I don't think that is a bad thing.

Sure, there are some terrible school systems, particularly those filled with "inner city" kids (code phrase for "minority"). But those systems are not representative of America. A few generations ago, our poorest kids wouldn't have gone to school at all.
 
Last edited:
imagep said:
Can you point to a specific time in history where we had a better educational system and back up that allegation with facts?
Our literacy rate is the highest of all time, we are now teaching about computers in elementary school (I never touched a computer until I was in college), we have the highest percentage of young people attending school ever, we have the largest ever percent continuing on to college. Most colleges now REQUIRE that students take 2-3 years of a foreign language before be admitted to college. Mathematics classes in college below calculus are now considered "remedial".
The biggest change that we have had in curriculum is that we have dropped the slide rule and now use calculators, and we have dropped Latin for languages that are actually spoken in other countries. I don't think that is a bad thing.
Sure, there are some terrible school systems, particularly those filled with "inner city" kids (code phrase for "minority"). But those systems are not representative of America. A few generations ago, our poorest kids wouldn't have gone to school at all.
Click to expand...

You're awesome.
 
imagep said:
Can you point to a specific time in history where we had a better educational system and back up that allegation with facts?

Our literacy rate is the highest of all time, we are now teaching about computers in elementary school (I never touched a computer until I was in college), we have the highest percentage of young people attending school ever, we have the largest ever percent continuing on to college. Most colleges now REQUIRE that students take 2-3 years of a foreign language before be admitted to college. Mathematics classes in college below calculus are now considered "remedial".

The biggest change that we have had in curriculum is that we have dropped the slide rule and now use calculators, and we have dropped Latin for languages that are actually spoken in other countries. I don't think that is a bad thing.

Sure, there are some terrible school systems, particularly those filled with "inner city" kids (code phrase for "minority"). But those systems are not representative of America. A few generations ago, our poorest kids wouldn't have gone to school at all.
Click to expand...

Take a look at a textbook from just 10 years ago. Yes, more people are getting into college because there are more colleges with lower standards. The material taught in school is so dumbed down. That is why our kids aren't learning anything. I am in my third year of college in mechanical and aerospace engineering (That is a double major).
I job shadowed last spring semester and I realized I haven't learned anything in school that I will use daily in my field. Teachers feel pressed to give into students wishes. This happens in High School as well. I had a few friends who were not in AP or IB classes and they were dumb as rocks. Some of them graduated with honors. The honors and AP classes now a days are just barely on par with the generation before us. Regular classes are where teachers will give you a copy of the test as a review guide and then STILL have to help students on the test in order for them to pass. My favorite teacher in High School wrote a book about his experience teaching. Mind you he had worked as an engineer and then went on to do better things and came back to teach. He was tough and there were students in my AP class who would continually report him to the principals office because his tests were hard and administration would come to him and yell at him. He was judged by all these seemingly arbitrary rules. Politics has gotten into our schools too much and is ruining education. I have a very close friend who has a 7 year old. I am urging him to home school the child or put him in a private school. Public education stinks!
 
lovetosing4678 said:
Take a look at a textbook from just 10 years ago. Yes, more people are getting into college because there are more colleges with lower standards. The material taught in school is so dumbed down. That is why our kids aren't learning anything. I am in my third year of college in mechanical and aerospace engineering (That is a double major).
I job shadowed last spring semester and I realized I haven't learned anything in school that I will use daily in my field. Teachers feel pressed to give into students wishes. This happens in High School as well. I had a few friends who were not in AP or IB classes and they were dumb as rocks. Some of them graduated with honors. The honors and AP classes now a days are just barely on par with the generation before us. Regular classes are where teachers will give you a copy of the test as a review guide and then STILL have to help students on the test in order for them to pass. My favorite teacher in High School wrote a book about his experience teaching. Mind you he had worked as an engineer and then went on to do better things and came back to teach. He was tough and there were students in my AP class who would continually report him to the principals office because his tests were hard and administration would come to him and yell at him. He was judged by all these seemingly arbitrary rules. Politics has gotten into our schools too much and is ruining education. I have a very close friend who has a 7 year old. I am urging him to home school the child or put him in a private school. Public education stinks!
Click to expand...

Thats what I said when I was your age, and my parents said when they were your age, and their parents said, etc. There is a quote from some greek philospher who spoke about how todays youth are so bad and how they are disrespectful and how they arn't learning anything, some speakers will use the quote at a begining of a lecture, the crowd will agree, then the speaker explains that it was origionally said over 2,000 years ago (making the audiance feel like jerks). I wish I could provide the citation, but either my memory is just that bad or I am just plain too stupid to remember the exact quote or the origional author. I am sure that someone on this forum who is smarter than me can provide a reference to it.

Sure, our educational system sucks, but it doesn't suck any more than it did 10 years ago or 50 years ago or 100 years ago or even 2000 years ago.

It makes people feel superior to denegrate the current level of education, it's an ego boost, if we designate todays level of education as poor, then naturally that means when we went to school it was better, and thus we are better educated than others.

It's very popular to denagrate the current level of education, it has been for at least 2,000 years! That doesn't mean it's true.
 
Last edited:
I'm kind of tired of this debate about cutting funds to education. We've been throwing money at education for years, but it hasn't necessarily been used wisely. Why is less or more money going to solve or perpetuate the problem? I went to a high school that spent education funds on flat screen TVs for the cafeterias. Most days these TVs were set to MTV or some judge show. They weren't even used in a vaguely educational manner. There are some districts that want to provide every student with I-Pads. Some districts already supply every student with laptops. There are several studies (mostly done in Europe) which have shown that retention decreases and reading time increases when somebody uses a computer vs. when they read from a printed copy or book. Texas' elected BOE decided that we should re-write the history books and revise our science texts to paint ourselves in a better light regarding slavery and provide more validity to the creationist theory of origins. There are problems, but money hasn't and won't be the answer.

Further, if we're going to balk about cuts then we should be shouting about how the districts respond to them, not that they're being made. Administration is top-heavy and over-funded across the nation, in districts of all sizes. Yet the first thing anybody suggests is cutting teachers? Of course, the electorate eats this up, hook, line, and sinker. We get furious, victimizing the government for making the cuts, but we never hold those who create the budgets accountable on the district level. I saw a woman in her late 60s (estimating, of course) driving a brand new Ford Taurus SHO (down here the base model is about $23k) with the Dallas ISD logo slapped on the front, and a "Maintenance and Engineering" label directly below. DISD is set to cut tens of thousands of teachers, but they somehow have the budget for new cars for what I assume is probably a member of the administration in the M&E department. Perhaps a smarter move would have been to keep a teacher's assistant on staff (starting salary $27k) and hold off on new cars for a year.

But that's the whole issue, isn't it? We scream about cuts to our pet programs, but we never demand to know why these cuts have to be answered with such extreme responses. The best and most practical cuts aren't teachers, yet those are the cuts being made. Why is that okay?
 
imagep said:
Thats what I said when I was your age, and my parents said when they were your age, and their parents said, etc. There is a quote from some greek philospher who spoke about how todays youth are so bad and how they are disrespectful and how they arn't learning anything, some speakers will use the quote at a begining of a lecture, the crowd will agree, then the speaker explains that it was origionally said over 2,000 years ago (making the audiance feel like jerks). I wish I could provide the citation, but either my memory is just that bad or I am just plain too stupid to remember the exact quote or the origional author. I am sure that someone on this forum who is smarter than me can provide a reference to it.

Sure, our educational system sucks, but it doesn't suck any more than it did 10 years ago or 50 years ago or 100 years ago or even 2000 years ago.

It makes people feel superior to denegrate the current level of education, it's an ego boost, if we designate todays level of education as poor, then naturally that means when we went to school it was better, and thus we are better educated than others.

It's very popular to denagrate the current level of education, it has been for at least 2,000 years! That doesn't mean it's true.
Click to expand...

Is it not possible that education keeps getting worse? I am still part of the generation that I think is terrible. I look around in my classes and see people that are studying to do anything from engineering to medicine and am honestly scared! I used the textbook examples because I think that is a quantitative way to see how things have changed. In engineering text books from the 80s are so much more in depth. No useless pictures, no page long examples that explain nothing. Its just facts that you were to learn and memorize. I am very unhappy with the education I am receiving and have gotten throughout my years in school. I am not degrading another age group, I am saying that MY age group is terrible. We are being cheated out of a good education because of politics and teachers fear of being fired for giving a hard test or failing a student. Its ridiculous!
 
X Factor said:
I really don't see how paying more taxes to the federal government improve education when most schools are funded by local property taxes.
Click to expand...

was paying taxes to the federal govt mentioned?
 
It can continue to change though. Education has changed greatly over the past 2000 years. If education remained the same I would agree with you that eventually it could not get any worse. But everything that has been introduced, overtime, is eroded (That may not be the right word. Forgive me if I am using it incorrectly). People or things continually make it ineffective and it is then changed. I learned in AP World History freshman year of high school about the cycles of power in China(I can't recall for the life of me what the official name is so I will attempt to explain). It was where everytime there was a take over things would be great for a while. Then as rulers died and their predecessors took over things would get worse and worse until another take over occurred. I believe we are at the end of one of these cycles in education right now.
 
lovetosing4678 said:
It can continue to change though. Education has changed greatly over the past 2000 years. If education remained the same I would agree with you that eventually it could not get any worse. But everything that has been introduced, overtime, is eroded (That may not be the right word. Forgive me if I am using it incorrectly). People or things continually make it ineffective and it is then changed. I learned in AP World History freshman year of high school about the cycles of power in China(I can't recall for the life of me what the official name is so I will attempt to explain). It was where everytime there was a take over things would be great for a while. Then as rulers died and their predecessors took over things would get worse and worse until another take over occurred. I believe we are at the end of one of these cycles in education right now.
Click to expand...


If you took AP world history in the 9th grade I think you learned a lot more than you are giving yourself credit for. A hundred years ago AP clasess didn't even exist and few people outside of the elite class took world history at all.
 
I took AP World History in the IB program. I had to ride a school bus an hour each morning and each afternoon. I also had to walk about a mile after I got off the bus. This was because there was only one school in each county that offers the IB program. The second school I attended did not even offer the course. I learned because I got the books and taught myself. They barely offered any electives as well. My sister took forensic science and marine biology at her school.

AP classes werent offered a hundred years ago because what we call AP classes were their regular classes. Regular classes are essentially remedial at this point in time. If you have the ability to go sit in on a regular class at any high school, I would encourage you to do so. Once on a lecture day and once on a test day. Look at how many hands are raised to ask questions during the test. Most of the time the questions being asked are what is the answer to this... That may be exaggerated a little but not by too much.
 
imagep said:
If you took AP world history in the 9th grade I think you learned a lot more than you are giving yourself credit for. A hundred years ago AP clasess didn't even exist and few people outside of the elite class took world history at all.
Click to expand...

Or you don't have to take AP classes at all! I never did, I just did (and continue to do) a lot of outside reading and that helps. (For the most part I didn't do AP in my school because a lot of AP kids were arrogant pricks who thought that since they took AP classes, it made them smarter than everyone else.)
 
ElCid said:
Just kill it. Why dither and dally about with these circular-reasoning drills? Just end education in America. Close the doors and windows. Nail them shut. Tell the kids to stay home on the couch, playing video-games, or make them work at McDonald's. NO MORE TEACHERS, STUDENTS, SCHOOLS, BOOKS, SUPERINTENDANTS OR TAXES. End it all. Let the Chinese rule. :coffeepap
Click to expand...

But it's all the parents fault! We've just got to keep saying that over and over for another 100 years. We have nothing to do with it.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Or you don't have to take AP classes at all! I never did, I just did (and continue to do) a lot of outside reading and that helps. (For the most part I didn't do AP in my school because a lot of AP kids were arrogant pricks who thought that since they took AP classes, it made them smarter than everyone else.)
Click to expand...

What this statement says to me is that Mr. Invisible was not given enough opportunities IN SCHOOL to learn what he wanted. He had to read outside of school in order to get most or at least part of his knowledge. If all you do is go through school without trying to learn anything outside of it, you will not be able to do anything or hold a job. It just isn't doing what it should be doing.
 
lovetosing4678 said:
I took AP World History in the IB program. I had to ride a school bus an hour each morning and each afternoon. I also had to walk about a mile after I got off the bus. This was because there was only one school in each county that offers the IB program. The second school I attended did not even offer the course. I learned because I got the books and taught myself. They barely offered any electives as well. My sister took forensic science and marine biology at her school.

AP classes werent offered a hundred years ago because what we call AP classes were their regular classes. Regular classes are essentially remedial at this point in time. If you have the ability to go sit in on a regular class at any high school, I would encourage you to do so. Once on a lecture day and once on a test day. Look at how many hands are raised to ask questions during the test. Most of the time the questions being asked are what is the answer to this... That may be exaggerated a little but not by too much.
Click to expand...

You participated in pure corruption. You were taught by unionized teachers who intend to retire someday. NOTHING is more contemptible than that. NOTHING. How dare they teach you? How dare you try to learn? How dare they retire? We're facing a depression now, so the teachers have to be the first to get fired. All of them, especially the older ones, just before they retire. Those filthy, ROTTEN teachers..........
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom