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Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jobs

Kelfuma

Kelfuma

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Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jobs | The Independent

Elon Musk has said a universal income will eventually need to be adopted as human workers are replaced by robots.

"I think there's a pretty good chance we end up with a universal basic income, or something like that, due to automation," the founder of Tesla and SpaceX said in an interview with CNBC. "I'm not sure what else one would do.

"People will have time to do other things, more complex things, more interesting things," he added.

"Certainly more leisure time. And then we've got to figure out how we integrate with a world and future with advanced AI."

"Ultimately," he said," it would need to be some kind of improved symbiosis with digital super-intelligence."

Mr Musk has donated huge amounts of money to research the dangers of artificial intelligence and AI research group has opened a "gym" for robots to ensure they can be properly tested.

Two thirds of the British public support the introduction of a universal basic income, a poll found in May.

Such an income would replace other social security payments nad be high enough "to cover all basic needs," the opinion study explained.
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AHA!!! No more college and I can survive on a minimum wage!!! I am good! Clearly, we need a world government for such global implementation!
 
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Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Elon Musk says a lot of stuff.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

I am all for a universal income especially if the source derives from land values, which belong to everyone in the community, not just a handful of landholders.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Quag said:
Why do you think it is good not to have a higher education?
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pfffttt, my parents are doing just fine. Hell, they're doing even better than those with degrees. I find it funny how people glorify their pieces of paper with gold stickers on it. AS IF IT MEANT SOMETHING.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Basic "techno-socialism" concept. Not really far-fetched, although still quite a ways off I'd think.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Kelfuma said:
pfffttt, my parents are doing just fine. Hell, they're doing even better than those with degrees. I find it funny how people glorify their pieces of paper with gold stickers on it. AS IF IT MEANT SOMETHING.
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A higher education isnt end all and be all of life but if People will have time to do other things, more complex things, more interesting things a higher education is a good place to start.
What do you plan on doing sitting at home playing video games?
 
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Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

A life without some sort of work is a life that looks and feels meaningless.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

LowDown said:
A life without some sort of work is a life that looks and feels meaningless.
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I agree but lets say meaningful occupation rather than work. Some people consider work as something you do ONLY to pay the bills.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Kelfuma said:
Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jobs | The Independent



AHA!!! No more college and I can survive on a minimum wage!!! I am good! Clearly, we need a world government for such global implementation!
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We haven't needed a world government for any of the other government benefits that US citizens receive, so I don't see how this would be any different.

And a basic income guarantee would likely allow a lot more people to attend college. Whether or not they chose to go to college would be up to them.

I think what a lot of people miss about the income guarantee is that at some point in time, as our technology continues to reduce the need for human labor (just like it did during the 20th century when the average workweek dropped by 30 hours a week), there will no longer be enough living wage paying 40 hour a week jobs for every family to have one. At that point, we have to make a decision to change the rules by which capitalism operates, or become a welfare state (where those few who are able to get a job end up providing for the masses anyhow), or accept that the majority of us will have to live off the table scraps of those few who have jobs.

That's why I think this discussion is so important today. I don't want to get to that point, then suddenly be surprised that my family, or my children or grand children or great grandchildren have to eat whatever grubworms they can find and live unsheltered in our streets and on our sidewalks.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

LowDown said:
A life without some sort of work is a life that looks and feels meaningless.
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I don't think life is given meaning by endless toil for basic sustenance. I think people can manage to find meaning in other ways.

It's an interesting combination of philosophical and economic questions when you consider how a society might adapt to a Star Trek style of automation.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Kelfuma said:
pfffttt, my parents are doing just fine. Hell, they're doing even better than those with degrees. I find it funny how people glorify their pieces of paper with gold stickers on it. AS IF IT MEANT SOMETHING.
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Sure, some people do very well without a degree.

But I bet they aren't doctors or lawyers or CPAs or any of the other professions that require one of those pieces of paper with a gold sticker on it.

We have lot's of different paths to success, college is only one of those paths, but it's the path that is statistcally the most likely to lead to success.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Quag said:
A higher education isnt end all and be all of life but if People will have time to do other things, more complex things, more interesting things a higher education is a good place to start.
What do you plan on doing sitting at home playing video games?
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You know, I think I'll go to college if there a universal basic income!
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

LowDown said:
A life without some sort of work is a life that looks and feels meaningless.
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I totally agree.

But what do we do when the demand for human workers is so scarce (because it has been replaced by technology) that most of us can't find a job? I suppose that some people may find volunteering fulfilling, others may find artistic endeavors fulfilling. I suppose that we will have to find our own individual paths to a meaningful life.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Quag said:
I agree but lets say meaningful occupation rather than work. Some people consider work as something you do ONLY to pay the bills.
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A wise person once told me that the ideal job is the one that the individual would do even if they couldn't get paid for it.

I bet that there are lots of professional athletes who would still compete in athletics, even if they didn't get paid for doing so - assuming that they didn't need to work for an income. Look at a lot of the non-mainstream sports, like bodybuilding. There are hundreds of people who compete each year at "professional" bodybuilding competitions, yet only a few are able to earn enough prize money to pay their bills. Most professional bodybuilders have full time jobs, except for maybe a few who can make enough in product endorsements and guest appearances (and that's like maybe ten or fifteen in the entire world at any given point in time).
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Kelfuma said:
You know, I think I'll go to college if there a universal basic income!
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Great!

College can be very fulfilling, even if you aren't going to college for the purpose of a specific career.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Quag said:
A higher education isnt end all and be all of life but if People will have time to do other things, more complex things, more interesting things a higher education is a good place to start.
What do you plan on doing sitting at home playing video games?
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Based on their avatar it would probably be a split between video games and manga. Unfortunately the manga creators and video game programmers will not get an endless vacation.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Geoist said:
I am all for a universal income especially if the source derives from land values, which belong to everyone in the community, not just a handful of landholders.
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Thank heavens it doesn't doesn't belong to everybody and as such, such a stupid idea will not be implemented in our society.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

LowDown said:
A life without some sort of work is a life that looks and feels meaningless.
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Hear! Hear! :thumbs:

But I must add: One's 'work' may cover a wide range of activities, and does not necessarily involve providing an income - and may indeed involve just the opposite (philanthropy).
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

imagep said:
I think what a lot of people miss about the income guarantee is that at some point in time, as our technology continues to reduce the need for human labor (just like it did during the 20th century when the average workweek dropped by 30 hours a week), there will no longer be enough living wage paying 40 hour a week jobs for every family to have one. At that point, we have to make a decision to change the rules by which capitalism operates, or become a welfare state (where those few who are able to get a job end up providing for the masses anyhow), or accept that the majority of us will have to live off the table scraps of those few who have jobs.
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We will have to reduce the populations first.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

imagep said:
I totally agree.

But what do we do when the demand for human workers is so scarce (because it has been replaced by technology) that most of us can't find a job? I suppose that some people may find volunteering fulfilling, others may find artistic endeavors fulfilling. I suppose that we will have to find our own individual paths to a meaningful life.
Click to expand...

We don't need to strain our imaginations to know what people do if they don't have work. We can see it in our own unemployed workers. Drugs, alcohol, crime, sloth, dissipation, etc., are as likely anything positive.
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

Excon said:
We will have to reduce the populations first.
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Only if the second option is chosen.

Otherwise, productivity via technology is certainly capable of sustaining a large population off the "backs" of a few. (because most of the actual backs are robots)
 
Re: Elon Musk says people should receive a universal income once robots take their jo

On the one hand, there's the problem that Universal Basic Income would contribute to inflation. On the other hand, it could politically stabilize society as it transitions to robot-driven productivity. As we allow robots to do more and more, they could keep ramping up productivity gains to continually lower the cost of living.

But I'm not sure where we end up in the long run. There's a famous science fiction short story called "The Machine Stops"

The Machine Stops by E.M. Forster - Free eBook
 
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