Eliminate Payroll Taxes and Flat Tax Everything Sold (1 Viewer)

[devildavid]

we have an environment now that will ultimately collapse. Democrats and to some extent, Republicans-keep promising people more stuff and avoid pissing the majority off by claiming "the rich" will pay for it. Right now, the middle class isn't taxed enough for them to start saying-enough is enough

No, the sky is not falling. And regressive taxes don't keep it from falling. They just create social issues that cost us in other ways that require government assistance. I don't see any evidence of people being promised more stuff. It isn't happening. The sky is not falling.

 

[ttwtt78640]

do the people who pay more into the program, get more OUT of the program?

Nope, in that respect it's more like a lottery.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No, the sky is not falling. And regressive taxes don't keep it from falling. They just create social issues that cost us in other ways that require government assistance. I don't see any evidence of people being promised more stuff. It isn't happening. The sky is not falling.

The evidence is the constant annual federal "budget" deficits and the growing national debt. Congress critters spend more than they dare ask for in taxation.

 

[devildavid]

The evidence is the constant annual federal "budget" deficits and the growing national debt. Congress critters spend more than they dare ask for in taxation.

That is not "people" getting "stuff".

 

[devildavid]

Nope, in that respect it's more like a lottery.

Nothing like a lottery. More like social insurance.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That is not "people" getting "stuff".

That borrowed $1T annually is certainly going to "somebody" and/or paying for "something". How can you possibly argue otherwise? Of course, that borrowing is done to fulfill federal spending promises beyond what federal taxation will cover.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nothing like a lottery. More like social insurance.

Really? How much can anyone predict, for sure, that they (or their heirs) will receive in lifetime SS benefits? Just because $X was taken from your pay in FICA taxes does not mean that you will ever get a penny from SS - just as buying $X of lottery tickets does not mean that you will win a prize.

 

[devildavid]

That borrowed $1T annually is certainly going to "somebody" and/or paying for "something". How can you possibly argue otherwise? Of course, that borrowing is done to fulfill federal spending promises beyond what federal taxation will cover.

This is not "people" getting "stuff". Give one actual example of one person getting stuff. Do you even know what taxes are paying for?

 

[devildavid]

Really? How much can anyone predict, for sure, that they (or their heirs) will receive in lifetime SS benefits? Just because $X was taken from your pay in FICA taxes does not mean that you will ever get a penny from SS - just as buying $X of lottery tickets does not mean that you will win a prize.

Not at all like a lottery. Insurance is not a lottery. It is guaranteed to be paid out to all participants until the government officially shuts it down.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This is not "people" getting "stuff". Give one actual example of one person getting stuff. Do you even know what taxes are paying for?

Yep, about $1T less than taxes will pay for. Where do you suppose people get that SNAP funding to buy groceries?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not at all like a lottery. Insurance is not a lottery. It is guaranteed to be paid out to all participants until the government officially shuts it down.

Nope, it is paid only to those who qualify for SS benefits - it is not guaranteed to be paid simply because some FICA taxes were withheld from one's paycheck. If one dies at age 48 and has no surviving spouse or minor dependents then nothing is paid from SS - regardless of how much FICA taxation that they may have "contributed".

 

[devildavid]

Yep, about $1T less than taxes will pay for. Where do you suppose people get that SNAP funding to buy groceries?

So you don't. SNAP is a very tiny part of the budget.

 

[dairyair]

That way everyone pays?

Don't think that will ever happen.
It is a larger tax on the poor as a % of income.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So you don't. SNAP is a very tiny part of the budget.

That borrowed $1T is not a small part of the federal "budget", yet every $1 of it is spent. Obviously, that which is paid to any one person is a very tiny part of the federal "budget", but rest assured that $1T is not a trivial amount of money.

 

[dairyair]

If a bum buys a bottle or a wealthy person buys a yacht. Who pays more? The key is they both pay.

Alcohol is already taxed to all who consume.
But cereal to the needy family of 4 is not. Nor should it be. Nor will it likely ever happen.

 

[devildavid]

That borrowed $1T is not a small part of the federal "budget", yet every $1 of it is spent. Obviously, that which is paid to any one person is a very tiny part of the federal "budget", but rest assured that $1T is not a trivial amount of money.

Other than SNAP, where is the rest going? What can be cut?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Other than SNAP, where is the rest going? What can be cut?

If 100% of non-defense, federal discretionary spending was cut then we would still have an annual deficit. The bottom line is that federal taxes must be increased to eliminate the federal deficit.

 

[bluesmoke]

do the people who pay more into the program, get more OUT of the program?

No. Just like people who pay more income tax than others now don't get any more out of it, either. Payroll taxes wouldn't matter if Fed income tax structure was more progressive, meaning not just the tax rates by income level but also getting rid of tax loopholes for the rich and large corps.

 

[Jimmy Who]

A wealthy person paying a hundred dollars in not equal to a poor person paying ten. How about we just close all the tax loopholes that allow the wealthy to avoid paying their fair share of taxes?

I agree with closing loopholes. I realize it's not the same amount of tax being paid by a poor Person and a wealthy. This will never happen and should not. My point was that a bum may not pay income tax but will pay sales tax. There for contributes.

 

[devildavid]

If 100% of non-defense, federal discretionary spending was cut then we would still have an annual deficit. The bottom line is that federal taxes must be increased to eliminate the federal deficit.

So you aren't opposed to giving "free stuff" to people? You just want to raise taxes through regressive taxation? Seems like this discussion has gone nowhere.

 

[Neomalthusian]

That way everyone pays?

I think any notion of a flat consumption tax should be coupled with a globally-enforced tax on wealth or inheritance. Not sure how the latter would be accomplished, but consumption taxes as the only means of taxation is extremely regressive.

 

[jimbo]

One, why is this in the "government spending and debt" area of the forums?

Two, the answer is because it would encourage criminal enterprise for markets where demand existed but with motivation to avoid higher "flat sales taxes."

Lastly, why do you dislike the lowest income earners? (The lowest income quintile is who is economically harmed the most.)

The better question is why do you dislike successful people? The fact is the top 10% pay half the taxes.

 

[Vadinho]

The better question is why do you dislike successful people? The fact is the top 10% pay half the taxes.

Only because they have all the dough. I am in the top 2% year after year. This year Trump made me write a check to them for the first time in decades. But he needed a tax cut, so did all his buddies so I endured and paid up. I will do anything for rich people, they are the real Muricans, heart and soul of Murica.

 

[jaeger19]

If a bum buys a bottle or a wealthy person buys a yacht. Who pays more? The key is they both pay.

And so does the factory and all the workers that build yachts.. because now American made yachts are exponentially expensive.. and anything else made and sold in the US.. versus things manufactured and sold in other countries.

A national sales tax is a terrible terrible idea.. and makes American products less competitive.

 

[Jimmy Who]

And so does the factory and all the workers that build yachts.. because now American made yachts are exponentially expensive.. and anything else made and sold in the US.. versus things manufactured and sold in other countries.

A national sales tax is a terrible terrible idea.. and makes American products less competitive.

The word (Competitive ) when used as (other countries) has been a lot of America's problem. We should not want to complete with a country that is below our work standard's. All it does is lower ours.