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Electability of Trump or Cruz

Dittohead not! said:
That's how you gain political points. Promise to cut taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget.
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Quote from Back to the Future:
Campaign van (in 1985): Re-elect mayor Goldie Wilson! Progress is his middle name. Mayor Wilson's progress platform means more jobs, better education, bigger civic improvements and lower taxes! On election day, cast your vote for a proven leader...
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MTAtech said:
Referring to the bold piece above, that is what Rubio says he wants to do. However, Rubio proposes completely eliminating taxes on investment income, that would mean, for example, that the top 400 tax payers would end up owing no federal taxes -- and since half the capital gains earned in the nation go to people in the top 0.1%, that's a huge decrease in taxes for the wealthiest Americans. Mr. Rubio is also calling for a balanced-budget amendment at the same time he's calling for tax-cuts, that means slashing the federal budget by about a trillion dollars a year -- which would certainly bring on a severe recession or depression. So, what we have is contradictory policy that's completely unworkable in the real world.
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Rubio is a typical Republican with populist platforms that really not workable and quite incoherent, but sell with the Rush audience and other low information voters.

Rubio is going nowhere. There isn't a particularly obvious path to the nomination for him. While this is not clear to all yet, it will be abundantly clear a week from now. Instead, the 2016 election will feature two Democrats, one nominated by the Republican party, because he sold un-workable, incoherent populist platform, which of course, is an easy sell to Republicans.

Hard for me to believe this, but it will be Trump v Clinton in 2016. Pick your favorite centrist Democrat.

Now, Rubio (or Kasich) could win the nomination if Trump can not get enough delegates to win it on his own. One thing the Republicans are very good at is gumming up the works, so maybe they can do it to themselves and get a brokered convention.
 
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upsideguy said:
Rubio is a typical Republican with populist platforms that really not workable and quite incoherent, but sell with the Rush audience and other low information voters.

Rubio is going nowhere. The 2016 election will be one where the Republican nominee will really is a Democrat with an un-workable, incoherent populist platform, which of course, is an easy sell to Republicans.

Hard for me to believe this, but it will be Trump v Clinton in 2016. Pick your favorite centrist Democrat.
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It is shaping up to be between Trump and Clinton, but then, November is quite a way off yet. As for "populist platforms that really not workable and quite incoherent", it seems to me that sums up Trump in a nutshell.
 
BrewerBob said:
I think your assessment is pretty good. I don't think Trump or Cruz stand a chance against Hillary OR Sanders. Rubio stands a solid chance against either of them. The polls currently have Rubio beating Clinton by 4 points and beating Sanders by 1 point.
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RCP polling averages show Sanders and Rubio are tied. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Rubio beating Clinton by 4.7 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders beating Trump by 6 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Clinton beating Trump by 2.8 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Clinton neck-and-neck with Cruz with Cruz enjoying a 0.8 point lead. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders trouncing Cruz by 4.7 points. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_cruz_vs_sanders-5742.html

If we were to believe the writing on the poll walls, the ONLY hope the GOP has is with Rubio.

And Bernie is the leading democrat that easily beats any GOP candidate, Rubio notwithstanding.

But don't let common sense influence anyone's vote. The democrats are depending on the GOP to nominate Trump.
 
Captain America said:
RCP polling averages show Sanders and Rubio are tied. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Rubio beating Clinton by 4.7 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders beating Trump by 6 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Clinton beating Trump by 2.8 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Clinton neck-and-neck with Cruz with Cruz enjoying a 0.8 point lead. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders trouncing Cruz by 4.7 points. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_cruz_vs_sanders-5742.html

If we were to believe the writing on the poll walls, the ONLY hope the GOP has is with Rubio.

And Bernie is the leading democrat that easily beats any GOP candidate, Rubio notwithstanding.

But don't let common sense influence anyone's vote. The democrats are depending on the GOP to nominate Trump.
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And the same polling has Kasich beating Clinton by a whopping 7.4 points! Bernie would still enjoy a half point lead over Kasich.

The whole thing is amazing to me. At the rate we are going both parties will each nominate their least electable candidates.
 
BrewerBob said:
And the same polling has Kasich beating Clinton by a whopping 7.4 points! Bernie would still enjoy a half point lead over Kasich.

The whole thing is amazing to me. At the rate we are going both parties will each nominate their least electable candidates.
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I would vote for Kasich over Clinton or Sanders if given the opportunity. But not Trump or Cruz. It's still early yet and I could be swayed BUT I can PLEDGE, forever and ever, that I would NEVER vote for Cruz or Trump.
 
Captain America said:
RCP polling averages show Sanders and Rubio are tied. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Rubio beating Clinton by 4.7 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Rubio vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders beating Trump by 6 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

RCP polling averages show Clinton beating Trump by 2.8 points. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Clinton neck-and-neck with Cruz with Cruz enjoying a 0.8 point lead. RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Cruz vs. Clinton

RCP polling averages show Sanders trouncing Cruz by 4.7 points. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_cruz_vs_sanders-5742.html

If we were to believe the writing on the poll walls, the ONLY hope the GOP has is with Rubio.

And Bernie is the leading democrat that easily beats any GOP candidate, Rubio notwithstanding.

But don't let common sense influence anyone's vote. The democrats are depending on the GOP to nominate Trump.
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It's a bit early to predict November results but these numbers look like 2008, McCain v Obama. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225-3.html
 
cabse5 said:
Trump has broad voter appeal. He has great appeal with independents. He has great appeal with non-traditional GOPs like Rand Paul types. He has great appeal with those who see a downgrade of America from all the spending from military and social programs. He has great appeal from those who want manufacturing jobs. He has broad support from those who want the US to get back to interpreting The Constitution literally, and stop interpreting The Constitution via the ideology of a quorum of 9 judges (oh, how many) of SCOTUS and make that be the final say in any matter concerning the US.

About the only group in the GOP he has consistently alienated are large C, Conservatives. GOP members who believe in a hawk America that also tries to convert the rest of the world into a democratic, christian way of life.

His support doesn't come from that part of America that wants the US to spend even more for outrageously expensive programs, or for causing revolution because of a desire to rip up The Constitution.
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You speak as if you know of any position or plan of trumps other than building a wall.
 
Captain America said:
I would vote for Kasich over Clinton or Sanders if given the opportunity. But not Trump or Cruz. It's still early yet and I could be swayed BUT I can PLEDGE, forever and ever, that I would NEVER vote for Cruz or Trump.
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Kasich is a polar opposite of clinton and sanders but far more in line with cruz than either of them.

I dont understand your rationalization. Leftist candidate over cruz but kasich over leftist?
 
Sabanist said:
You speak as if you know of any position or plan of trumps other than building a wall.
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His other plans, whatever they are (they change daily) are all about as practical as the wall.

"No vamos a hacer este puto muro!" (We aren't building that (bleep)ing wall!)
 
upsideguy said:
Rubio is a typical Republican with populist platforms that really not workable and quite incoherent, but sell with the Rush audience and other low information voters.

Rubio is going nowhere. There isn't a particularly obvious path to the nomination for him. While this is not clear to all yet, it will be abundantly clear a week from now. Instead, the 2016 election will feature two Democrats, one nominated by the Republican party, because he sold un-workable, incoherent populist platform, which of course, is an easy sell to Republicans.

Hard for me to believe this, but it will be Trump v Clinton in 2016. Pick your favorite centrist Democrat.

Now, Rubio (or Kasich) could win the nomination if Trump can not get enough delegates to win it on his own. One thing the Republicans are very good at is gumming up the works, so maybe they can do it to themselves and get a brokered convention.
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Unworkable and incoherent you say? Unworkable how? If you want to fix a budget it must begin with ss and medicare ( two programs most want to bury their heads in the sand and see no evil or hear no evil). Rubio is proposing to change them. This huge military budget you speak pales in comparison to those two monsters.
 
upsideguy said:
I agree. I still think Trump is the Republican parties worst nightmare. If he gets the nod, the Republicans that were attracted to his independent, answer to know-one mantra will get to see the other side. Trump will tact left and probably farther left than any Republican has since .... well, I can't think of a good example.
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That will leave Trump open to be primaried out of office in 2020.
 
NEVER underestimate Stupid.
 
SDET said:
That will leave Trump open to be primaried out of office in 2020.
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yes, it would.... Of course, primarying out an incumbent is not the smartest thing a political party could do as it opens the door for the opposition party.
 
Trump is perfectly electable: he has what it takes to create the unholy coalition of know-nothing, we-was-robbed populist voters from "both sides" (which is really one and the same side - the structure is circular). That's why he has to be stopped at any cost, short of assassination. A Trump presidency would be the ultimate American catastrophe: Majoritarian democracy bursting out of the constitutional restraints and creating an atmosphere that will make conservatives think fondly of Obama and liberals go all nostalgic about the Reagan era.

Cruz is not my cup of tea, but given the circumstances.... And yes, I think he has the skill to outmaneuver Hillary. Risky, but may be worth it.

I have voted for Rubio this morning. Hey, he got his 5 (I think) delegates from MA, and so did Kasich. Whatever whittles away from the Trump count...
 
Sabanist said:
Im about as conservative as they come. I have some libertarian positions but mostly am lock step line with the most far right republicans.

I see Trump leading this race and have to ask myself, is he electable? Will enough people vote for him in the general election where republicans are already disadvantaged by the electoral system. Democrats start the day like 70 votes ahead by default.

Same with cruz, who i think i am most in line with ideologically.

Rubio is the only candidate beating hillary in polls. He is inexperienced and it bothers me he has never held a real job outside of politics. It also bothers me he is the biggest hawk on stage never spending a day in uniform.

However, for the greater good i would cast my vote for him because he is electable.
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Cruz is tied with Hillary in the polls.

Trump is getting slaughtered by Hillary in the polls.

It looks like this:

RCP T v H.webp


Because of this:

Trump Favorables.webp
 
The problem with Trump is that since the establishment hates his guts he would have trouble getting anything done. It would be a lot like Obama with Trump using executive order to pass his legislative goals only instead of just the Republicans complaining about it, this time it would be both parties complaining. Or he would whine and complain that nobody works with him and that's why he is the biggest do-nothing President to date.
Cruz I just can't imagine. I believe he is too hellfire and brimstone for the common person to vote him in. His platform is Christianity first and then other issues like the Economy (citation: his website). I can't imagine Cruz getting elected as even Clinton seems more reasonable a choice at that point.
Rubio is in a terrible position because whereas he might be abled to take on Clinton, he has to get past the Trumplusion first and show the man behind the Wizard's curtain for what he is. If he doesn't step up his game to achieve this then it really doesn't matter who coulda woulda shoulda gone up against Clinton. Rubio is sensible though and could probably get Congress to accomplish something should he beat the odds (and his own party) and make it.
 
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