Effective means to reduce crime

[Kreton]

The best legislation seems to be a lack of legislation.

Anarchy?

 

[Kreton]

Mandatory public service, "draft" everyone right out of school, make them be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
And make it harder to be on welfare, the dole, etc. Workfare comes to mind....

I am not sure what this really means. Can you elaborate?

 

[MrT]

I appreciate the thoughts. Here is how I would reply.

1. Gun safety courses and mental health evaluations would be expensive. Who would cover these costs?

A small fee associated with obtaining the license (similar to the cost of obtaining a driver's license) should be enough to cover these expenses.

2. Especially concerning mental health, what exactly are we attempting to weed out? If you were to ask a person if they were buying a gun because they depressed, angry or intended to harm others, regardless of their intent or mental state, they aren't going to answer yes.

This issue has been routinely analyzed over the years, e.g. how do you analyze someone on an aspect of themselves that they may want to remain hidden? I would imagine that the type of severe rage, depression, or psychotic issues that we are most concerned about can be given a cursory examination through the use of a questionnaire and follow up interview, when a red flag is raised. There will always be those who are able to hide their issues and there will always be mistakes in any system that we can craft. This plan would attempt to address the most common issues in the most efficient manner.

3. There are countless courses and pamplets and books and websites ect out there for gun safety. Any person who wants to know more about gun safety has all the information they will ever need at their fingertips. Any person who doesn't care about gun safety isn't going to suddenly care because you force them into a class. I don't see how forcing a person into a class they don't want to be in and aren't going to take seriously would have any impact.

Certainly that is a possibility - someone who is forced to attend a gun safety training might refuse to enact any of the gun safety training obtained from that class. But, similar to your concern about the mental evaluation, you appear to be concerned for the minority of the minority of situations. I would imagine that the vast majority of individuals who took such a course would learn and utilize some of the gun safety techniques that were taught in the class and, because of this majority, many (though not all) accidental or intentional injuries would be avoided.

I see what your thought process is. That people taking more pride in their community would take a more active approach toward helping combat crime. But I don't think mandating physical labor would really bring forth that sense of pride.

I tend to believe that being able to see the physical manifestations of your investment would yield the largest degree of connection with your given community, but I would certainly support other methods of service as well.

 

[calamity]

Violent crime is a problem in this country.

What type of gun control legislation, laws, or societal changes do you think would be an effective means of reducing violent crime? Please explain how and why it would be effective.

Locking up violent offenders longer and holding then for their full sentence, instead of paroling them and letting them out early.

Amazing is how many prior convictions there are for your typical murderer or rapist.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Seventy percent of violent felons had a prior arrest
record, and 57% had at least one prior arrest for a
felony. Sixty-seven percent of murderers and 73% of
those convicted of robbery or assault had an arrest
record.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Locking up violent offenders longer and holding then for their full sentence, instead of paroling them and letting them out early.

Amazing is how many prior convictions there are for your typical murderer or rapist.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

You seem to be equating arrests and convictions - they are vastly different things. I have been arrested for violent crimes (twice) yet never convicted. All it takes to get arrested is a complaint and reasonable suspicion that the complaint may be valid (e.g. someone said that I hit them and they have a bloody nose) - it takes far more than that to get a conviction.

 

[Kreton]

I appreciate the thoughts. Here is how I would reply.



A small fee associated with obtaining the license (similar to the cost of obtaining a driver's license) should be enough to cover these expenses.

I dont see how a small fee would suffice. The type of mental health evaluation you are suggesting below would cost thousands. A small fee would cover the costs of a person taking a questionaire and processing it. The costs needed for what you are proposing would essentially make it so that the rich would be the only one who can legally own firearms. Personally I don't think gun rights should be segregated.

This issue has been routinely analyzed over the years, e.g. how do you analyze someone on an aspect of themselves that they may want to remain hidden? I would imagine that the type of severe rage, depression, or psychotic issues that we are most concerned about can be given a cursory examination through the use of a questionnaire and follow up interview, when a red flag is raised. There will always be those who are able to hide their issues and there will always be mistakes in any system that we can craft. This plan would attempt to address the most common issues in the most efficient manner.

No one with any intent of purchasing a gun for illegal purposes is going to openly write on a questionnaire that murder is the plan. Depression and rage can be hidden easily enough to fool a piece of paper.

Certainly that is a possibility - someone who is forced to attend a gun safety training might refuse to enact any of the gun safety training obtained from that class. But, similar to your concern about the mental evaluation, you appear to be concerned for the minority of the minority of situations. I would imagine that the vast majority of individuals who took such a course would learn and utilize some of the gun safety techniques that were taught in the class and, because of this majority, many (though not all) accidental or intentional injuries would be avoided.

Anyone can do that right now and for free. Anyone who wants to safely own a firearm has the information. It is a matter of implementing it.

I tend to believe that being able to see the physical manifestations of your investment would yield the largest degree of connection with your given community, but I would certainly support other methods of service as well.

I agree to a certain extent. But forced labor will harbor resentment and likely have the opposite of the intended effect.

 

[Kreton]

Locking up violent offenders longer and holding then for their full sentence, instead of paroling them and letting them out early.

Amazing is how many prior convictions there are for your typical murderer or rapist.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vfluc.txt

Given that most offenders are repeat offenders how does longer prison sentences deter crime? I could certainly argue that our current prison environment increases the violent nature of criminals and has a negative impact on violent crimes outside of prisons. And with that, longer sentences would further increase the problem.

I am not suggesting that we don't imprison people for crimes, but rather saying the length of the sentence wouldn't help.

 

[VanceMack]

If there are 1.2 million violent crimes occurring every year, and if each prison in America were built to hold say 4000 prisoners, then what is needed is an additional 300 prisons. Along with those prisons is a change to our sentencing guidelines. mandatory minimum sentencing should be enacted. If anyone uses a weapon of any kind in the commission of a crime that does not result in harm to another, then they would face a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years in addition to the original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime using a weapon of any type they face a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years, on top of their original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime resulting in the death of another, then they receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 40 years, on top of their original sentence.

This would also be a boon to the economy and should reduce unemployment and would serve the benefit of all communities by removing violent criminals from their midst.

 

[UtahBill]

I am not sure what this really means. Can you elaborate?

a year, full time, in public service might educate our ignorant youth. too many of them have no clue about anything beyond their own narrow perspective. at the end of the year, they will be better prepared to make intelligent, informed decisions regarding their own future, and the future of the combined body of citizens that we should aspire to be part of.
This ME ME ME attitude isn't how this nation was built, but it might be how it falls apart.

The public service should include taking classes, having group discussions, etc. so that we are exposed to other ways of thinking, and the realities of becoming adults.

 

[Kreton]

a year, full time, in public service might educate our ignorant youth. too many of them have no clue about anything beyond their own narrow perspective. at the end of the year, they will be better prepared to make intelligent, informed decisions regarding their own future, and the future of the combined body of citizens that we should aspire to be part of.
This ME ME ME attitude isn't how this nation was built, but it might be how it falls apart.

The public service should include taking classes, having group discussions, etc. so that we are exposed to other ways of thinking, and the realities of becoming adults.

The ME ME ME attitude is absolutely a problem. Couldn't agree more. I am not sure how much classes in adulthood would help. They should be doing these things you are discussing as early as possible and stress it more and more as CHILDREN begin to grow. Once they've reached adulthood it is so much harder to adjust. Kids grow up with little to no respect for anything. We've gotten away from society doing anything about that. You hang out in public long enough (and it won't take long) and you'll see a bunch of examples of kids disrespecting each other, their elders, public property and acting like jackasses and the adults nearby, if the off chance they do say something, will get told to **** off. And not much you can do. These same kids are going to be the ones who reach adulthood and attend these classes and discussions with their same ****ty attitudes.

I agree with you on the intent, but don't agree on the timing.

 

[UtahBill]

The ME ME ME attitude is absolutely a problem. Couldn't agree more. I am not sure how much classes in adulthood would help. They should be doing these things you are discussing as early as possible and stress it more and more as CHILDREN begin to grow. Once they've reached adulthood it is so much harder to adjust. Kids grow up with little to no respect for anything. We've gotten away from society doing anything about that. You hang out in public long enough (and it won't take long) and you'll see a bunch of examples of kids disrespecting each other, their elders, public property and acting like jackasses and the adults nearby, if the off chance they do say something, will get told to **** off. And not much you can do. These same kids are going to be the ones who reach adulthood and attend these classes and discussions with their same ****ty attitudes.

I agree with you on the intent, but don't agree on the timing.

Can a kid learn these things if he or she is isolated from the rest of the world? Parents are the first major influence and many of them are poor examples. Peers are another influence, they can easily be detrimental.
I am from the draft era, where men learned to get along with each other despite cultural differences.

Perhaps we can do both?

 

[natsb]

Its not at the top of a list in this case, its just a question. I put the most common things I have heard and whether you agree or not with gun control laws, it is a very commonly brought up factor is the violent crime discussion so I put it on there. Don't read too much into that or get any panties bunched up.

Understood. And not to worry, there is absolutely zero chance I could get any panties in a bunch.

If I am understanding correctly your position is that poverty and drugs are primary causes for violent crime. Which I certainly don't disagree with. With that belief, how would you propose to use that information in a way that would have a positive impact on violent crime?

No, I don't subscribe to the poverty causes crime meme. For example, rural areas suffer from poverty more than urban or suburban areas, yet the violent crime rates are much lower. If crime and poverty were joined at the hip, we would expect to see Appalachia with higher crime rates than the inner cities. As an interesting side note, gun ownership is also higher in urban areas. So like poverty, it makes a correlation between gun ownership and violent crime dubious.

There is a clear connection between drugs and violent crime in urban, suburban, and rural areas equally. What to do about it? I don't know. I am not sure what to try that hasn't already been tried. I have toyed with ideas like inserting tainted drugs into the street that would cause non-fatal, but unpleasant effects like turning skin blue. But he scenario of a Capital and Whitehouse full of blue people would not sit well with the lawmakers, so they would most likely not allow such legislation.

 

[TurtleDude]

If there are 1.2 million violent crimes occurring every year, and if each prison in America were built to hold say 4000 prisoners, then what is needed is an additional 300 prisons. Along with those prisons is a change to our sentencing guidelines. mandatory minimum sentencing should be enacted. If anyone uses a weapon of any kind in the commission of a crime that does not result in harm to another, then they would face a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years in addition to the original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime using a weapon of any type they face a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years, on top of their original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime resulting in the death of another, then they receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 40 years, on top of their original sentence.

This would also be a boon to the economy and should reduce unemployment and would serve the benefit of all communities by removing violent criminals from their midst.

I prefer the intended victims to merely shoot accurately

 

[Slartibartfast]

I think we need to change the way we keep violent crime statistics. I wonder what would happen to violent crime statistics if we tracked inner-city violent crime separately from all other violent crime. I'm guessing we would find that we have less violent crimes than most other countries in the world.

If my guess is correct, then I think we would have identified WHERE the problem lies. Then we could move to solve it.

Would this suffice?

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u....-2013/resource-pages/table-guide/table-guide

 

[Glen Contrarian]

If there are 1.2 million violent crimes occurring every year, and if each prison in America were built to hold say 4000 prisoners, then what is needed is an additional 300 prisons. Along with those prisons is a change to our sentencing guidelines. mandatory minimum sentencing should be enacted. If anyone uses a weapon of any kind in the commission of a crime that does not result in harm to another, then they would face a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years in addition to the original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime using a weapon of any type they face a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years, on top of their original sentence. If anyone commits a violent crime resulting in the death of another, then they receive a mandatory minimum sentence of 40 years, on top of their original sentence.

This would also be a boon to the economy and should reduce unemployment and would serve the benefit of all communities by removing violent criminals from their midst.

Problem with your post is that America ALREADY has the largest prison population on the planet - in terms of both numbers and percentage of population - even more so than North Korea...and yet we still have the highest violent crime rate of any of the first-world democracies.

So...clearly, the "throw-them-all-in-jail-and-throw-away-the-key" approach isn't working...and there's no indication that building more prisons and tossing even more of them in jail for decades would work. Why not do something completely different and look at other nations and see what they're doing, and maybe learn a few lessons from them in how to build a more peaceful and law-abiding society?

Oh, wait, I forgot! America does everything better than all other nations, so it would be unAmerican - indeed, treasonous! - to even THINK that it would be a good idea to try to emulate what works better in other nations! Oh, my goodness, I hope the Tea Party Police doesn't tag me as a commie/socialist/pinko/dope-smoking liberal!!!!

 

[VanceMack]

Problem with your post is that America ALREADY has the largest prison population on the planet - in terms of both numbers and percentage of population - even more so than North Korea...and yet we still have the highest violent crime rate of any of the first-world democracies.

So...clearly, the "throw-them-all-in-jail-and-throw-away-the-key" approach isn't working...and there's no indication that building more prisons and tossing even more of them in jail for decades would work. Why not do something completely different and look at other nations and see what they're doing, and maybe learn a few lessons from them in how to build a more peaceful and law-abiding society?

Oh, wait, I forgot! America does everything better than all other nations, so it would be unAmerican - indeed, treasonous! - to even THINK that it would be a good idea to try to emulate what works better in other nations! Oh, my goodness, I hope the Tea Party Police doesn't tag me as a commie/socialist/pinko/dope-smoking liberal!!!!

Its not working because we dont have ENOUGH prisons, are often jailing the wrong people, and dont have people locked away long enough.

I am uninterested at this stage in what brought us here. I am very interested in how we move forward. Now...I'm certain you think you have a better answer for dealing with violent crime. Party on, man. Go invite them into your home...introduce them to the family. Have a ****ing blast.

 

[VanceMack]

I prefer the intended victims to merely shoot accurately

That would work too.

 

[jaeger19]

Well.. lets first recognize that violent crime is on the decrease and has been for some time..

To further lower violent crime.

1. Better mental health. We need to do a better job of detecting early warning signs and getting people help before a crisis. Our jails are becoming the poor mental health facility as well as the poors drug centers. Which in my opinion goes hand in hand as I suspect a good portion of drug use/abuse stems from people self medicating themselves.

2. At least decriminalize many "victimless crimes" or at least remove mandatory sentencing. We are spending way too many resources locking up people for drugs, for prostitution and other non violent crimes. If we put as much resources into murders, and rapes that we do overall for prostitution lets say.. we would catch a lot more murderers and rapists and lock them up so they could not hurt anyone.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Its not working because we dont have ENOUGH prisons, are often jailing the wrong people, and dont have people locked away long enough.

I am uninterested at this stage in what brought us here. I am very interested in how we move forward. Now...I'm certain you think you have a better answer for dealing with violent crime. Party on, man. Go invite them into your home...introduce them to the family. Have a ****ing blast.

AGAIN, we ALREADY have not only the highest prison population on the planet, but we have the highest PERCENTAGE of our population in prison of any nation on the planet.

It's obviously not working...and we all know the classic definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.

What you are apparently not getting is that by putting an ever-greater percentage of our population in prison, we're creating a permanent underclass...and as a direct result, said underclass is going to be significantly more disposed to criminal behavior. Yeah, yeah, I know, you think that it's silly to not throw every offender in jail for years on end...but the experience of every other nation on the planet should be a wake-up call for you.

 

[TurtleDude]

AGAIN, we ALREADY have not only the highest prison population on the planet, but we have the highest PERCENTAGE of our population in prison of any nation on the planet.

It's obviously not working...and we all know the classic definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.

What you are apparently not getting is that by putting an ever-greater percentage of our population in prison, we're creating a permanent underclass...and as a direct result, said underclass is going to be significantly more disposed to criminal behavior. Yeah, yeah, I know, you think that it's silly to not throw every offender in jail for years on end...but the experience of every other nation on the planet should be a wake-up call for you.

so your solution is to put a sizable amount of gun owners who wouldn't obey Obamatardation on gun bans in jail

 

[Kreton]

So...clearly, the "throw-them-all-in-jail-and-throw-away-the-key" approach isn't working...and there's no indication that building more prisons and tossing even more of them in jail for decades would work. Why not do something completely different and look at other nations and see what they're doing, and maybe learn a few lessons from them in how to build a more peaceful and law-abiding society?
!

Such as?

Oh, wait, I forgot! America does everything better than all other nations, so it would be unAmerican - indeed, treasonous! - to even THINK that it would be a good idea to try to emulate what works better in other nations! Oh, my goodness, I hope the Tea Party Police doesn't tag me as a commie/socialist/pinko/dope-smoking liberal!!!!

This is the kind of nonsense that really doesn't add anything to the conversation or your post other than to make you look like a little kid who cant construct an intelligent argument.

 

[Kreton]

I am uninterested at this stage in what brought us here. I am very interested in how we move forward.

This. Good statement here.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Anarchy?

False, anarchy is no government. No gun legislation means a government with no gun legislation. Well, I guess age restrictions are A ok.

 

[VanceMack]

AGAIN, we ALREADY have not only the highest prison population on the planet, but we have the highest PERCENTAGE of our population in prison of any nation on the planet.

It's obviously not working...and we all know the classic definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.

What you are apparently not getting is that by putting an ever-greater percentage of our population in prison, we're creating a permanent underclass...and as a direct result, said underclass is going to be significantly more disposed to criminal behavior. Yeah, yeah, I know, you think that it's silly to not throw every offender in jail for years on end...but the experience of every other nation on the planet should be a wake-up call for you.

The fact that we have 1.2 million violent crimes occurring every year means 2 things. We dont have ENOUGH prisons and the sentences arent long enough. You feel free to go bleed all over them. I want them out of our society. Permanently. I dont give a **** how many of them are in prison.

We can work on all those socioeconomic factors as well. Hell...just LOOK how beneficial 300 more prisons would be. Thats a whole lot of jobs building them, a whole lot more money in the economy, and a whole lot more prison systems worth of people to run them. Conservative estimates would be between 2-300 thousand sustainable jobs. PLUS a whole bunch of violent ****s of the streets for what will effectively amount to the rest of their lives? Dood...that has win win win written all over it.

 

[Paleocon]

Violent crime is a problem in this country.

What type of gun control legislation, laws, or societal changes do you think would be an effective means of reducing violent crime? Please explain how and why it would be effective.

While I do support gun control, I think the best means would be to stiffen criminal punishment. Kidnapping, armed robbery, arson, drug trafficking, adultery, rape, and murder amongst other things should all carry a maximum penalty of death.