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Economic slavery

Unfair

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economic slavery is in full effect. those of lower classes and of nonwhite racial makeup do not have the same opportunities for getting well paid jobs.
unfair housing and real estate practices result in nonwhites being rejected when applying and wanting to live in upper class to middle class neighborhoods.
minimum wage does not equal living wage which keeps people poor and struggling just to get by.
the rich and wealthy get tax breaks while everyone else has to pay taxes.
your thoughts?
 

Kandahar

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Unfair said:
economic slavery is in full effect. those of lower classes and of nonwhite racial makeup do not have the same opportunities for getting well paid jobs.
It's true that the lower-class don't have well-paid jobs. That's basically the definition of lower-class, is it not? If you somehow "solved" this problem, the definition of lower-class would simply move upward.

As for race...it's not so much that being nonwhite directly causes people to have fewer opportunities. It's that being nonwhite increases the likelihood of being lower-class, which means they have fewer opportunities.

Unfair said:
unfair housing and real estate practices result in nonwhites being rejected when applying and wanting to live in upper class to middle class neighborhoods.
I doubt that happens very often anymore. And even if it did, the vast majority of upper- and middle-class neighborhoods are owned or managed by non-racist people, so the cost of living shouldn't be significantly higher for minorities in any given area.

Unfair said:
minimum wage does not equal living wage which keeps people poor and struggling just to get by.
Actually, the existence of a minimum wage at all keeps many people unemployed or underemployed, especially minorities.

Unfair said:
the rich and wealthy get tax breaks while everyone else has to pay taxes.
your thoughts?
I think if you examined the statistics as to where the tax money comes from, you'd find that the wealthy pay nearly all of it.
 

Unfair

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you need to open your eyes pal.
do you know what white priviledge is? if you don't, look it up and educate yourself.
housing discrimination doesn't go on anymore? again, get real. ask any nonwhites if they had trouble moving into middle class to upper class majority white neighborhoods. you see, when you're NOT on the recieving end, you don't even realize people are being discriminated against. it leaves you VERY ignorant and naive to reality.
like i said, minimum wage doesn't equal living wage and has people barely getting by, especially minorities.
the wealthy get tax breaks. look it up.
 

Kandahar

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Unfair said:
you need to open your eyes pal.
do you know what white priviledge is? if you don't, look it up and educate yourself.
housing discrimination doesn't go on anymore? again, get real. ask any nonwhites if they had trouble moving into middle class to upper class majority white neighborhoods. you see, when you're NOT on the recieving end, you don't even realize people are being discriminated against. it leaves you VERY ignorant and naive to reality.
I'm not saying it never happens. But are you claiming that the majority of middle- or upper-class neighborhoods with a central management are managed by racists? If not, it shouldn't affect the cost of living much even if a few landlords are racist. If a black person is rejected from one middle-class apartment building because of his race, granted it's not fair, but he can certainly find a similar building with less racist management.

Unfair said:
like i said, minimum wage doesn't equal living wage and has people barely getting by, especially minorities.
The minimum wage causes unemployment (especially among minorities). If you think it's tough living on $5.15 an hour, try living on $0 per hour.

Unfair said:
the wealthy get tax breaks. look it up.
That's because they pay the most taxes. Look it up.
 

Unfair

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the system is racist therefore making it hard for nonwhites.
how does minimum wage cause unemployment? and yes working for nothing is worse, that's what slavery was and minimum wage is only a tep above it so what does that tell you?
they make the most profit, yet get tax breaks. not fair.
 

Iriemon

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Kandahar said:
Actually, the existence of a minimum wage at all keeps many people unemployed or underemployed, especially minorities.
That is questionable, given that we only have 5% unemployment.

If we eliminated the minimum wage, more people might be employed at less than $5 an hour. But since the president proposes opening the borders to let hordes of cheap foreign labor perform that <$5 an hour work I doubt it would help the unemployment situation.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Your still blaming everybody else for the problems....

Gimmie gimmie gimmie, gimmie something for nothing. Minimum wage is not designed to be lived off of. Your expected to move into a carrer which you will grow into and advance. Why would you expect minimum wage to be a career living wage. Thats why it's called "Minimum" it's the utmost lowest you can go. I worked for minimum wage when I was a kid. it was about 3.00 an hour. I didn't however continue to work for that. I looked learned and found better.
 

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Calm2Chaos said:
Your still blaming everybody else for the problems....

Gimmie gimmie gimmie, gimmie something for nothing. Minimum wage is not designed to be lived off of. Your expected to move into a carrer which you will grow into and advance. Why would you expect minimum wage to be a career living wage. Thats why it's called "Minimum" it's the utmost lowest you can go. I worked for minimum wage when I was a kid. it was about 3.00 an hour. I didn't however continue to work for that. I looked learned and found better.
Hey, good for you.
 

ngdawg

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New Jersey has some of the highest real estate prices in the country and the one of the highest property tax rates. A small 3 bedroom house on a 50x100ft lot in this town alone sells for close to $300,000. Were we to buy the house we live in today, we couldn't. Our neighbors are black, hispanic and middle eastern.
Meanwhile, my white 'middleclass' family can't pay its bills.
Few, if any businesses here are owned by white americans. The reasons behind this are varied, but here's at least partly why: Immigrant groups, especially those of Asian or Middle-eastern origins, use a sort of self-financing system. They arrive here, pay into a 'group fund'-a type of bank, if you will. This 'bank' helps them attain housing and invests in business ventures, making several partners. They buy small businesses, gas stations, food markets, etc and employ others in the 'group'.
Another reason they can buy housing, etc. is that they will find a house, use one couple to put down the money, then when it is time to move in, instead of one couple, you now have 10 people in the house-all have bought into it, but use the one couple as the buyer. (Happens a lot here.) Those houses are then converted, usually simply by using the second story and basement-into two and three family dwellings. It's illegal, technically, but since no outside remodelling is done, it's 'overlooked'.
A family of 6 adults earning minimum wage can do pretty well doing these things.
The problem that 'middle-class white america' has is that we are, essentially, left to our own economic defenses. We don't have a 'group-fund' or ten relatives to house. We've bought into the idea that the government is there to help us instead of forging ahead with unique solutions. Only in times of sheer familial desperation will you see anything even remotely resembling the ways of these immigrants in the sharing of living.
Minimum wage is there as a protection so that workers aren't exploited. True, businesses then exploit by sticking to minimum wage, but unless you're willing to buck up, start there and make a goal to move ahead, who's doing the bad deed here? I don't like having to work my ass off for $7 an hour, specially after having invested 20 grand for an education, but it's this or sell my kids....:mrgreen:
 

Unfair

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calm2chaos-I place the blame where it is supposed to be: on the racist system.
reality is people ARE living off minimum wage because they do NOT see the same opportunities as others based on skin color and where they live.
how can you go to college if you were given a shitty education and your folks have no money?
clearly, the chips are stacked up in that white kid's corner who lives in the burbs and gets a great education, and whose parents have money to send him through school.
the playing field is NOT level and that is not the fault of the people. it's the fault of the system.
 

Connecticutter

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Unfair said:
I place the blame where it is supposed to be: on the racist system.
Do you believe that it is the system or the people in the system?

If you think that it's the people in the system, then you are saying that our society has too many with racist attitudes, and what do you think we should do about it?

If you think it's the system - then what about our system do you think is racist?
 

Unfair

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Connecticutter said:
Do you believe that it is the system or the people in the system?

If you think that it's the people in the system, then you are saying that our society has too many with racist attitudes, and what do you think we should do about it?

If you think it's the system - then what about our system do you think is racist?
it is the system and the system was created by racist and evil whites and it benefits all whites.
structural change is the solution.
everything. housing, childcare, education, jobs, etc etc etc
 

Comrade Brian

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Unfair said:
it is the system and the system was created by racist and evil whites and it benefits all whites.
structural change is the solution.
everything. housing, childcare, education, jobs, etc etc etc
:confused: Huh? People with white skin are evil? No it does not benefit all white-skinned people, many are homeless and such.

Structual change is the solution, we need a new social and economic system.
 

Kandahar

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Unfair said:
it is the system and the system was created by racist and evil whites and it benefits all whites.
structural change is the solution.
everything. housing, childcare, education, jobs, etc etc etc
You're funny. For a minute, I actually thought you cared about discussing the problem and coming up with solutions, rather than just bitching about whitey.

Are you a real person, or are you just trying to emulate Huey Freeman to play a little joke on us?
 

Unfair

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yes. not all, but collectively yes.
and homeless whites are that way because if capitalism. they still have white priviledge.
 

Comrade Brian

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Unfair said:
yes. not all, but collectively yes.
and homeless whites are that way because if capitalism. they still have white priviledge.
Well... this is just racism except you're saying "whites" are evil instead of "blacks, etc."
 

Unfair

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look at white history and the present. actions speak louder than words. u can't deny the obvious forever.
 

Comrade Brian

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Unfair said:
look at white history and the present. actions speak louder than words. u can't deny the obvious forever.
The only problems is that I don't see lines of "race" I don't judge people by their skin color. I view all as just humans, and that means many are stupid and ignorant.
 

Connecticutter

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Unfair said:
it is the system and the system was created by racist and evil whites and it benefits all whites.
structural change is the solution.
everything. housing, childcare, education, jobs, etc etc etc
If you don't give specifics, people are going to start putting words in your mouth. What part fo the "structure" is racist? Racism has only waned under Capitalism and we in examples throughout the world that socialism and race-based policies intended to correct the past exacerbate the situation.
 

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Unfair said:
how can you go to college if you were given a shitty education and your folks have no money?
clearly, the chips are stacked up in that white kid's corner who lives in the burbs and gets a great education, and whose parents have money to send him through school.
the playing field is NOT level and that is not the fault of the people. it's the fault of the system.
I love you, Unfair. You are possibly the most ignorant poster on the board.
Education is NEVER given, it is taken, and that takes a lot of effort on YOUR part. The system is there, the school is there, the teachers are there, and where are you? Not there, not taking advantage of the education that is being offered, not even trying to learn. Hell, you already know everything! So why bother? Even if you were going to school, you are so bigoted that the only things you hear are the few things that support your existing prejudices. What are you trying to do, become the next Al Sharpton, Louis the bigot Farrakam, or what?
The playing field is not level, true, not even for whites. But some education is better than nothing, if you build on it. Anyone who thinks a high school education is enough is naive at best, even college is not the end of it. A smart person keeps learning forever. But you don't want to do anything on your own. You don't even have the faintest idea as to what an education is!
 

Kandahar

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You talk about how having such a low minimum wage is unfair to minorities, but do you know why the minimum wage was originally implemented? It was designed so that blacks couldn't "steal white jobs" by offering to work for less money. By making it illegal for people to work for less than a certain amount, businesses could no longer hire cheap labor, and therefore could hire all the white workers they wanted to.

Don't believe me? Prior to the minimum wage, even with Jim Crow in full effect, the unemployment rate was roughly equal among whites and nonwhites. Now the unemployment rate of nonwhites is nearly double that of whites.
 

TimmyBoy

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Heh, perhaps creating a "classless society" where everybody has the same wealth and same educational opportunties. A society based on true equality and freedom. A society without class. ha ha ha ha! YEAH RIGHT. Then nobody will have incentives to work hard or be inventive so the economy still suffers. I think that you will find, making long term economic equality is impossible. You just have to take the cards that are dealt with you and play the best game of poker you can play. Every hand is a winner and every hand is a loser. It's up to you to make the best of what is dealt to you.
 

Calm2Chaos

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Unfair said:
calm2chaos-I place the blame where it is supposed to be: on the racist system.
reality is people ARE living off minimum wage because they do NOT see the same opportunities as others based on skin color and where they live.
how can you go to college if you were given a shitty education and your folks have no money?
clearly, the chips are stacked up in that white kid's corner who lives in the burbs and gets a great education, and whose parents have money to send him through school.
the playing field is NOT level and that is not the fault of the people. it's the fault of the system.
Why, did someone tell you that if your black and in school you don't have to show up or you shouldn't learn? Does the knowledge not seep into the black brain because it's diseminated by a white teacher? The oppurtunity is there, you just actually have to show up and do the work. How can you how can you how can you. Yet in these same schools there are some students that do get good grades and go to college. And they do it with the same information and knowledge that is available to everyone. The difference being they applied themselves and did the work.

Well the last time I went to look for a job I did look in the whitey only employment page. Course I am not supposed to tell you that, they may revoke my white status...

I don't believe the system is completely fair. But I definetly don't believe thats it completely one sided. There are far to many examples for this to be true. But if it's a little tougher for you then work a little harder. If it's unfair who cares, the only person that benifits from working harder is you. If you feel your sterotyped then prove them wrong. But sitting back screaming you can't do it because everything is stacked against you is not only wrong but feeding directly into the stereotype
 

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Part of the problem here is unrealistic expectations of our youth. They don't know that all the things that mom and dad have took them 20 or more years to earn. They want to start off in life as young marrieds (or not married) with ALL the stuff that their elders have.
I am doing better than my parents, and my kids will do better than me, and the grandkids better yet. Part of that will be due to grandma and grandpa helping out, and guiding their efforts, and giving advice, and making sure they get a good education. The family should stay connected from generation to generation, and the older members should help the younger ones, or at least the younger ones who are doing their part. The lazy ones can make it on their own as best they can. That goes for my grandkids as well. I hope none of them have to discover that the hard way.
 
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