Dr Donnie is at it again

[apdst]

He already promised a miracle months ago, one day it'll be a miracle, we'll wake up and poof, the virus is gone.

I would prefer a vaccine.

When did he promise a miracle? Post his exact quote, please.

 

[bongsaway]

When did he promise a miracle? Post his exact quote, please.

You have internet, look it up.

 

[apdst]

You have internet, look it up.

You made the claim. Support it. But, as usual, you're lying. :lamo

 

[bongsaway]

You made the claim. Support it. But, as usual, you're lying. :lamo

Let's see how many times we can go back and forth until I prove you an idiot? You had the energy to type two answers, look it up yourself. I'm lying, find out for yourself. Your turn.

 

[Thom Paine]

Beyond the fact that in the wrong hands its use can actually be dangerous to the patient, jumping CP ahead without any support data will make it harder to actually generate the data required to prove its efficacy, not that you or Dr Donnie apparently care. Add to that, we are already getting to the point where people no longer trust anything they hear even from Doctors and Scientists and a political figure using the weight of his office to override the scientists and doctors simply makes that worse. Is it any wonder that polls indicate that even if there is a vaccine many will simply not take it?

How about if it's in the right hands?
How about the patient and doctor make such a decision ?
Sounds that you and others want other people to die for your own political reasoning.
Distrust of government sponsored science is not new .. It's been this way for the last 70 years that I know.

 

[apdst]

Let's see how many times we can go back and forth until I prove you an idiot? You had the energy to type two answers, look it up yourself. I'm lying, find out for yourself. Your turn.

That'll never happen, but calling me an idiot is definitely a rule violation. :lamo

 

[calamity]

Dr. Donnie Boy who fancies himself some sort of scientist or doctor, able to modify NOAA weather maps and overrule actual doctors announcing an emergency authorization from FDA (obviously a direct order from Donnie) regarding Convalescent Plasma use. NIH had asked FDA to delay allowing the use of Convalescent Plasma because the proof of its effectiveness is weak. In general the technology is pretty well known. However only the best, most well equipped hospitals can employ it safely. If the case for efficacy is weak, then the risks become an issue.

FDA has proven very "pliable" under Dr Hahn. We had evidence of that in their dealings regarding vaping. Now here it is again. I expect some dumbassed premature determination regarding vaccines from FDA around the election which would be laughable given the timing of Stage 3 trials and the timing of the election.

Safety is a major concern with vaccines because vaccines are given to large volumes of healthy people. Treatments are given to much smaller numbers of sick people. As such FDA can afford more risk with treatments than it can with vaccines.

Convalescent Plasma use sits somewhere in between vaccine and other treatment on the risk scale because it is more of a process than it is medicine.

Of course IDIOT Azar joined Dr Donald and Hahn at the briefing today.

Strong-arming the FDA, we become more and more like a ****hole every day.

 

[bongsaway]

That'll never happen, but calling me an idiot is definitely a rule violation. :lamo

I didn't call you an idiot, yet. Your reading comprehension stinks. You called me a liar, I told you we'll go back and forth until I decide to prove you an idiot because you are wrong as usual. You guys defend trump even when it's easy to find the truth, it comes out of his mouth.

 

[apdst]

I didn't call you an idiot, yet. Your reading comprehension stinks. You called me a liar, I told you we'll go back and forth until I decide to prove you an idiot because you are wrong as usual. You guys defend trump even when it's easy to find the truth, it comes out of his mouth.

Actually, you did...lol

Nope! Never called you a liar. Stop ****ing lying.

 

[Cardinal]

Don’t take medical advice from trump and you’ll be fine.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Trump just runs the same con over and over and over.



Best. Hugest. Most beautiful.





The rubes literally can't see through his con.

 

[calamity]

Donnie is to medicine what his idiot wife is to good taste.

 

[bongsaway]

Actually, you did...lol

Nope! Never called you a liar. Stop ****ing lying.

By telling me to stop lying isn't that implying I'm lying when I said trump said it will be a miracle, poof, gone? As far as calling you an idiot, I didn't, I said I would prove you one when I wished.

Enough of your stupid drivel already.

Trump’s 7 worst statements on the coronavirus outbreak - Vox


See number three. For your future reference, I don't post lies like some folks on here, apdst.

 

[mike2810]

You have linked to an article about a randomized trial begun in China that was never completed. So....no idea where you are trying to go with that. There are no completed randomized trials for Convalescent Plasma use for COVID. As such Hahn is pulling numbers out of his butthole.

Was showing that what President Trump announced is not new.

The FDA link is more informative for the US.
Here is a source from June of 2020.
COVID-19 and Convalescent Plasma - Hematology.org

 

[calamity]

Given this crazy result...

How many deaths from the bull**** treatment Trump touted today will Republicans find acceptable?

 

[jnug]

How about if it's in the right hands?
How about the patient and doctor make such a decision ?
Sounds that you and others want other people to die for your own political reasoning.
Distrust of government sponsored science is not new .. It's been this way for the last 70 years that I know.

Asked and answered. Its already in the RIGHT HANDS. Read the posts. Every hospital is not the RIGHT HANDS. Every Doctor is not the RIGHT HANDS.

 

[Thom Paine]

Asked and answered. Its already in the RIGHT HANDS. Read the posts. Every hospital is not the RIGHT HANDS. Every Doctor is not the RIGHT HANDS.

So it should be unavailable to all ?

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Dr. Donnie Boy who fancies himself some sort of scientist or doctor, able to modify NOAA weather maps and overrule actual doctors announcing an emergency authorization from FDA (obviously a direct order from Donnie) regarding Convalescent Plasma use. NIH had asked FDA to delay allowing the use of Convalescent Plasma because the proof of its effectiveness is weak. In general the technology is pretty well known. However only the best, most well equipped hospitals can employ it safely. If the case for efficacy is weak, then the risks become an issue.

FDA has proven very "pliable" under Dr Hahn. We had evidence of that in their dealings regarding vaping. Now here it is again. I expect some dumbassed premature determination regarding vaccines from FDA around the election which would be laughable given the timing of Stage 3 trials and the timing of the election.

Safety is a major concern with vaccines because vaccines are given to large volumes of healthy people. Treatments are given to much smaller numbers of sick people. As such FDA can afford more risk with treatments than it can with vaccines.

Convalescent Plasma use sits somewhere in between vaccine and other treatment on the risk scale because it is more of a process than it is medicine.

Of course IDIOT Azar joined Dr Donald and Hahn at the briefing today.

This is weird. I mean really weird. I will let the experts present this story.

Before calling on the experts, here is a statement from Trump on Saturday. “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

On the very next day. Fox News reports, "President Trump on Sunday granted an emergency authorization for the usage of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients, dubbing it a “major breakthrough.'"

Speaking to reporters from the White House Sunday, Trump said the FDA has "issued an emergency use authorization... for a treatment known as convalescent plasma."

"I think there might have been a hold up, but we broke the logjam over the last week to be honest," Trump said at a late afternoon news conference announcing the new authorization.

Really?? Then why the statement on Saturday?

Why isn't this medical breakthrough being announced by Trump? Medical breakthroughs are announced by medical experts. Is there something funny about this medical breakthrough?

Let's consult the medical experts.

The Tmes reports, "The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday authorized the emergency use of blood plasma from people who have recovered from coronavirus infections for the treatment of patients hospitalized with Covid-19.

"The decision, which was delayed after top federal scientists urged further study of the treatment, was praised by President Trump at a news conference in which he said plasma was “very effective,” even though no rigorous clinical trials have proven that it works."

“This is a powerful therapy that transfuses very, very strong antibodies from the blood of recovered patients to help treat patients battling a current infection,” Trump said.

The Times continued with its report. "But the president’s endorsement notwithstanding, convalescent plasma, however promising, has not been proven to work in randomized clinical trials, considered the best way of determining whether a treatment is effective.

"Although Mr., Trump said the new approval would “dramatically expand access” to the treatment, convalescent plasma cannot be easily scaled up into millions of doses like manufactured drugs, because it is derived from blood donations."

Most important in all this is the statement made by Dr. Stephen M. Hahn.

On a call earlier in the day with reporters, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, said that information from studies conducted this year showed that the treatment was safe and had the potential to be helpful. However, he added that the agency would continue working with researchers studying the treatment and update the authorization as appropriate.

But enrollment in randomized trials — at least 10 such studies have begun in the United States — have faltered, collectively enrolling only a few hundred people.

Judge for yourself the validity of Trump's announcement. I would love to hear from his supporters, but I doubt that will happen. They don't talk about Trump very much.

 

[Xilnik]

This is weird. I mean really weird. I will let the experts present this story.

Before calling on the experts, here is a statement from Trump on Saturday. “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

On the very next day. Fox News reports, "President Trump on Sunday granted an emergency authorization for the usage of convalescent plasma to treat coronavirus patients, dubbing it a “major breakthrough.'"

Speaking to reporters from the White House Sunday, Trump said the FDA has "issued an emergency use authorization... for a treatment known as convalescent plasma."

"I think there might have been a hold up, but we broke the logjam over the last week to be honest," Trump said at a late afternoon news conference announcing the new authorization.

Really?? Then why the statement on Saturday?

Why isn't this medical breakthrough being announced by Trump? Medical breakthroughs are announced by medical experts. Is there something funny about this medical breakthrough?

Let's consult the medical experts.

The Tmes reports, "The Food and Drug Administration on Sunday authorized the emergency use of blood plasma from people who have recovered from coronavirus infections for the treatment of patients hospitalized with Covid-19.

"The decision, which was delayed after top federal scientists urged further study of the treatment, was praised by President Trump at a news conference in which he said plasma was “very effective,” even though no rigorous clinical trials have proven that it works."

“This is a powerful therapy that transfuses very, very strong antibodies from the blood of recovered patients to help treat patients battling a current infection,” Trump said.

The Times continued with its report. "But the president’s endorsement notwithstanding, convalescent plasma, however promising, has not been proven to work in randomized clinical trials, considered the best way of determining whether a treatment is effective.

"Although Mr., Trump said the new approval would “dramatically expand access” to the treatment, convalescent plasma cannot be easily scaled up into millions of doses like manufactured drugs, because it is derived from blood donations."

Most important in all this is the statement made by Dr. Stephen M. Hahn.

On a call earlier in the day with reporters, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, said that information from studies conducted this year showed that the treatment was safe and had the potential to be helpful. However, he added that the agency would continue working with researchers studying the treatment and update the authorization as appropriate.

But enrollment in randomized trials — at least 10 such studies have begun in the United States — have faltered, collectively enrolling only a few hundred people.

Judge for yourself the validity of Trump's announcement. I would love to hear from his supporters, but I doubt that will happen. They don't talk about Trump very much.

I believe I am experiencing a paradoxical state-dependent associated phenomenon. Did we see this same irresponsible behavior in March?

 

[element94]

A miracle in the midst of this kung flu **** is something we all need. Wouldn't you say?

We need a miracle because of Trump. They didn't need a miracle in China, or South Korea, or Iceland, or Taiwan, or Thailand, or...

 

[itstony]

How long before he claims he invented it?

 

[year2late]

Trump says nothing: Leftists lose their marbles.

Trump says something positive: Leftists lose their marbles.

:lamo

What I lie. Most of us would love if he never said anything ever again.

 

[j brown's body]

Dr. Donnie Boy who fancies himself some sort of scientist or doctor, able to modify NOAA weather maps and overrule actual doctors announcing an emergency authorization from FDA (obviously a direct order from Donnie) regarding Convalescent Plasma use. NIH had asked FDA to delay allowing the use of Convalescent Plasma because the proof of its effectiveness is weak. In general the technology is pretty well known. However only the best, most well equipped hospitals can employ it safely. If the case for efficacy is weak, then the risks become an issue.

FDA has proven very "pliable" under Dr Hahn. We had evidence of that in their dealings regarding vaping. Now here it is again. I expect some dumbassed premature determination regarding vaccines from FDA around the election which would be laughable given the timing of Stage 3 trials and the timing of the election.

Safety is a major concern with vaccines because vaccines are given to large volumes of healthy people. Treatments are given to much smaller numbers of sick people. As such FDA can afford more risk with treatments than it can with vaccines.

Convalescent Plasma use sits somewhere in between vaccine and other treatment on the risk scale because it is more of a process than it is medicine.

Of course IDIOT Azar joined Dr Donald and Hahn at the briefing today.

When I taught Facing History and Ourselves, which focuses on the rise of Hitler, the moral question of staying on in the Nazi government and working under Hitler was obviously a profound question. Some who did, who sought to do the right thing despite the corruption of their leader, decided that they made a mistake, and in hindsight learned that refusing to work for him was really their only option. As one said: "I kept my job, but I lost myself."

Any scientist, general or civil servant who can afford to quit this corrupt horror show leading our country should quit now. This leader sees government agencies as nothing more than tools for his own personal needs and power. For their own sake, for our nation's sake, they should refuse to be a part of this petty tyrant's schemes. If not, they will be tainted by them for the rest of their lives.

 

[beerftw]

Dr. Donnie Boy who fancies himself some sort of scientist or doctor, able to modify NOAA weather maps and overrule actual doctors announcing an emergency authorization from FDA (obviously a direct order from Donnie) regarding Convalescent Plasma use. NIH had asked FDA to delay allowing the use of Convalescent Plasma because the proof of its effectiveness is weak. In general the technology is pretty well known. However only the best, most well equipped hospitals can employ it safely. If the case for efficacy is weak, then the risks become an issue.

FDA has proven very "pliable" under Dr Hahn. We had evidence of that in their dealings regarding vaping. Now here it is again. I expect some dumbassed premature determination regarding vaccines from FDA around the election which would be laughable given the timing of Stage 3 trials and the timing of the election.

Safety is a major concern with vaccines because vaccines are given to large volumes of healthy people. Treatments are given to much smaller numbers of sick people. As such FDA can afford more risk with treatments than it can with vaccines.

Convalescent Plasma use sits somewhere in between vaccine and other treatment on the risk scale because it is more of a process than it is medicine.

Of course IDIOT Azar joined Dr Donald and Hahn at the briefing today.

At this point I am convinced both one the virus is nowhere near as deadly as numbers make it, and two certain groups seem hell bent on stopping anyone from a cure or treatment.

I figured this because russia already has a vaccine, supposedly it was in the works for 7 years, so my guess is they were working on one for an extremely similar strain already and it was close enough to make work with the current strain. I would not trust any vaccine out of russia as they were known for using hazardous materials even when they did not have to.

This however made me question things, russia has vaccine, american scientists say we can not trust vaccine and that we should not have one for 1-3 years, but this virus is so deadly that we must keep people locked up but also must stop any cure prevention or treatment for 1-3 years. The swine flu under obama had a vaccine within months of it emerging, but suddenly now months is too short and we need years.


Virus bad unless someone tries to stop it, then it comes up with we must avoid being hasty, but we must blame trump for not stopping the virus fast enough, but then block any attempt he makes at mitigating it/.

 

[jnug]

At this point I am convinced both one the virus is nowhere near as deadly as numbers make it, and two certain groups seem hell bent on stopping anyone from a cure or treatment.

I figured this because russia already has a vaccine, supposedly it was in the works for 7 years, so my guess is they were working on one for an extremely similar strain already and it was close enough to make work with the current strain. I would not trust any vaccine out of russia as they were known for using hazardous materials even when they did not have to.

This however made me question things, russia has vaccine, american scientists say we can not trust vaccine and that we should not have one for 1-3 years, but this virus is so deadly that we must keep people locked up but also must stop any cure prevention or treatment for 1-3 years. The swine flu under obama had a vaccine within months of it emerging, but suddenly now months is too short and we need years.


Virus bad unless someone tries to stop it, then it comes up with we must avoid being hasty, but we must blame trump for not stopping the virus fast enough, but then block any attempt he makes at mitigating it/.

Since we really do not know how many people have the virus, death:contagion which is the number DonDon constantly quotes is a MEANINGLESS number. We cannot derive that ratio because we really do not know how many people are contagious because WE DO NOT DO ENOUGH TESTING AND WE DO NOT DO THE RIGHT KIND OF TESTING. That is a direct result of not having a national testing plan or strategy. Thanks again Dondon. At any rate, your point is valid but only because 6 months into this mess, we still really do not know where we are or where we are going. CDC's most recent statement is that the contagion number could be higher by as much as 10x and might be as much as 13x higher than the numbers currently offered. So good luck arriving at a meaningful death:contagion calculation under those circumstances.

As for Convalescent Plasma itself, it has been in the hands of the research hospitals that are equipped to conduct what is in effect RESEARCH on its use for COVID. It is the "weakness" of the effect to this point within these research hospitals that has caused NIH to put on the breaks. The question they are asking is "why is the effect this weak?" Is there something about COVID "a unique virus" that is causing this weak result or are we doing something wrong either in the process of gathering the plasma, storing the plasma or distributing the plasma. It is these research hospitals that know the most about Convalescent Plasma development and use that are raising concerns because they do not know what is happening. If they don't know what is happening they have to figure it out and then release processes for its use that they are confident are at least consistent with their understanding of CP and then clinical studies will be conducted using that process. This is not something you want every hospital and every doctor experimenting with and that is the best way to describe what we are doing at this point....experimenting.

The research hospitals that know how to develop Convalescent Plasma therapy have access to its use now and those are the hospitals and doctors that should have access to it. Do you want seat belts in your car, an inanimate object, that were developed by professional researchers or do you want seat belts developed by Joe's Seat Belts are US? Remember, I am distinguishing between invention and development here. We are talking about living human beings here. We should at the least be rigorous enough about developing therapies that are as sound as what we do to develop parts for an inanimate object. This is particularly the case since we have FAILED as a Federal Government to remotely establish a consistent message regarding the only two solid weapons we have, masking and distancing. Another thanks goes out to DonDon for that one too!

As another poster already made reference to, this is Dr Donnie and Hydroxychloroquine all over again, another half assed half baked effort that just gets in the way of actual science and in the end likely causes more death and destruction, not less.