Why are you folks having such a hard time seeing the big picture? Is it a lack of military experience? You're just being obtuse? What?
So, you're going to take these studies, done by who knows, who and ptu that up against decades of combined experience of combat soldiers that are telling you something completely opposite? We've been there and done that, but we're all full of ****?
Listen to yourself!
How about the IDF? That was the subject of the report he linked to earlier.
Oh, I get it. You don't want to answer the question -- is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country -- so you try to assault my credibility.
That's not going to work, because I'm not claiming to be an expert, or to have experience.
I'm just asking a question.
I can't seem to get a straight answer.
There's no way to tell. The IDF hasn't been in a prolonged conflict like the 6-Day War, or the '67 War, since they lifted the ban on gays in 1993.
Then, why are you calling the people that do have the experience that we disagree with you, because we're just a buncha homophobes?
Well you are full of it that much is for sure.
Are you kidding me?
Would anybody from Israel who has served in the IDF care to weigh in and agree with apdst, that the IDF hasn't seen "real" combat since the war in 1967?
Because that's the opinion I've formed based on the words coming out of your mouthes and keyboards.
Answer my question -- is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
Yeah, I spent 12 years in an infantry unit. Served in Panama, Desert Storm, Korea and Kosovo. What could I possibly know about the subject...:rofl
Every combat arms vet on this forum is telling you how you're wrong, but we just hate gays? Is that it?
You need to enlist. Go help change the system.
but we just hate gays?
That's not what I said. I said they haven't been in a prolonged fight, since they lifted the ban in 1993. You're more than welcome to provide some docs that prove me wrong.
The answer to that would be, no.
Your anecdotal evidence vs empirical evidence hmmmmm I'll opt for the empirical evidence.
I don't know about the others but you certainly have some homophobic issues.
Okay, I've got it. You guys aren't professional enough to see past your personal prejudices with respect to homosexuality. That makes sense.
Too bad the IDF is more professional than our own military, it would've been nice to see that kind of professionalism here at home.
Then, why are you calling the people that do have the experience that we disagree with you, because we're just a buncha homophobes?
If it isn't homophobia or prejudice, tell me what, exactly, about gays serving openly would cause problems in the military.
Well, it comes down to society. Homosexuality is far more accepted in other societies. Hate our military with all your might, but it merely reflects our society.
There just wouldn't be a problem with gays serving openly, if it wasn't for the prejudice of the senior NCOs.
Our culture has alot to do with it. The same reason it's not a good idea for females to serve in combat arms units. heterophobia probably has as much to do with it, as anything else.
I don't hate the military. I'm disappointed in them.
That said, I will ask the question one more time: is the reason that unit cohesion would be impacted by gays serving openly the fact that our military isn't professional enough to set aside personal prejudice in the name of serving their country?
Frankly unit cohesion could only be undermined by people who hate gays. Ive seen a flaming homo during basic in the bay a floor beneath us and nobody seemed to mind him much.
Because he is simple in thought and childish.
A bit more complicated than just blaming senior non-commissioned officers for a society's sin.
The court ruling addressed the issue of unit cohesion and rules that in fact DADT undermined unit cohesion. Seriously, people should read the actual ruling that is the topic of discussion.
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