"Don't abort masturbating babies"

[Henrin]

It matters to you, Josie...and now Henin has weighed in. Sooooooooooooo? Yes there are some people who apparently feels it's an important issue.

But can you trust science enough to accept when pain can actually be felt? I mean...lets say that 95 percent of fetal pain researchers agreed that a fetus can't feel pain until say...24 weeks. Would knowing that really matter to you personally?

I asked that because...does the question of when a fetus can feel pain really matter to a person who doesn't believe in abortion at all....or with exceptions of rape or health of the mother?

Yes, it matters. Because even if we are aborting the child to save the life of the mother we want to concern ourselves with the pain of all the parties involved.

 

[Kanstantine]

It's crazy how often those things change minds.

No, its not crazy at all.

Seeing some stranger's sonogram means nothing to me.

Seeing my sister's sonogram, changed everything. That fetus isn't a stranger. Its partially my flesh and blood.

Chances are it will possess some of my personality, some of my facial features.

Surely it deserves some level of respect and consideration.

 

[Summerwind]

Lol, why would anyone read his material? That guy is constantly claiming a fetus is a parasite.

Uhm, biologically speaking a fetus is a parasite. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of biology.

 

[X Factor]

It matters to you, Josie...and now Henin has weighed in. Sooooooooooooo? Yes there are some people who apparently feels it's an important issue.

But can you trust science enough to accept when pain can actually be felt? I mean...lets say that 95 percent of fetal pain researchers agreed that a fetus can't feel pain until say...24 weeks. Would knowing that really matter to you personally?

I asked that because...does the question of when a fetus can feel pain really matter to a person who doesn't believe in abortion at all....or with exceptions of rape or health of the mother?

No, no more than it would matter to you. If the life is not important, of course that life feeling pain wouldn't be important either.

 

[minnie616]

I can beyond assure you, that any pain they feel is not remembered. I was born dead, had tubes and needles and things, cut into my flesh upon birth. Then continued with such measures through to my 4th year wherein I had open heart surgery, then continued to be stuck needles and glued up and all the pain of post-surgery monitoring as I was one of the first 10 children in the US to have open heart surgery, and guess what......
I don't remember any of it. I was sliced, I had my rib cage pried open, I had catheter (not urinary ones), I had injections galore.... I was not usually anathetized because back then the didn't think babies really felt pain.... I can attest to the idea that if babies feel pain, it doesn't matter to their long term life. And since in the case of abortion the intent immediately after any suggested possibility of pain is to simply cease... well, the only pain that I remember from all those medical issues, was the pain that they saved my life so my parents could beat the living **** out of me regularly. And with daddy-o being a doctor, there wasn't much the world was going to do about it.

Sorry, but not only was my mother a person who said to her children, I wish I could've aborted you, or had access to birth control... I am an adult child of a person I wish had access to legal, safe abortion.

I am also sorry you suffered abuse at the hands of your parents.

 

[Summerwind]

No, its not crazy at all.

Seeing some stranger's sonogram means nothing to me.

Seeing my sister's sonogram, changed everything. That fetus isn't a stranger. Its partially my flesh and blood.

Chances are it will possess some of my personality, some of my facial features.

Surely it deserves some level of respect and consideration.

You imply people who abort are not offering a level of respect and consideration. That's wrong.

 

[X Factor]

That's very good to know.

After seeing the sonogram of my soon to be born niece, my views on abortion has become more Conservative and limiting abortions to the 12th week except to protect the life of the mother makes sense to me.

I've always been anti-abortion, but watching my friend go through her pregnancy, helping her where I can, watching as her boy developed, has made me even more so.

 

[X Factor]

Uhm, biologically speaking a fetus is a parasite. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of biology.

I know. Call it a disease, parasite or cancer and that's all fine, but don't dare call it baby. :roll:

 

[Josie]

I've always been anti-abortion, but watching my friend go through her pregnancy, helping her where I can, watching as her boy developed, has made me even more so.

I always was too, but seeing my twin nephews born when my sister-in-law was 5 months along and seeing them trying to gasp for air sealed the deal for me.

 

[Josie]

Uhm, biologically speaking a fetus is a parasite. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of biology.

It's very normal for pro-abortion people to use terms that dehumanize the unborn child. It makes them feel better.

 

[Removable Mind]

Originally Posted by Removable Mind
It matters to you, Josie...and now Henin has weighed in. Sooooooooooooo? Yes there are some people who apparently feels it's an important issue.

But can you trust science enough to accept when pain can actually be felt? I mean...lets say that 95 percent of fetal pain researchers agreed that a fetus can't feel pain until say...24 weeks. Would knowing that really matter to you personally?

I asked that because...does the question of when a fetus can feel pain really matter to a person who doesn't believe in abortion at all....or with exceptions of rape or health of the mother?

And your reply is............

No, no more than it would matter to you. If the life is not important, of course that life feeling pain wouldn't be important either.

X...come on now. Why the double talk?

I believe you've stated that you are pro-life...are you not? Or at least conditionally so.

I don't think for a second that even pro-choice purposely wants a fetus to endure pain. But I think that you've implied that "pro-choice" don't care because they happen to believe in "choice".

 

[Summerwind]

I know. Call it a disease, parasite or cancer and that's all fine, but don't dare call it baby. :roll:

You are intelligent enough to realize that we all fall into many categories throughout our lives, sometimes simultaneously. Right? Or are you incapable of understanding the realities of life and choose to remain in your monofocal world?

 

[X Factor]

It's very normal for pro-abortion people to use terms that dehumanize the unborn child. It makes them feel better.

Now watch, after calling the baby a parasite she'll be offended at you for calling her pro abortion.

 

[Summerwind]

It's very normal for pro-abortion people to use terms that dehumanize the unborn child. It makes them feel better.

Accuracy doesn't dehumanize. If I'd said it is ONLY a parasite, then it would be dehumanizing. I didn't say that. Any further humanizing terms one might want to add is still open and available. Regardless, it doesn't change the biological fact that one thing a fetus is is a parasite.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Uhm, biologically speaking a fetus is a parasite. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of biology.

FutureIncoming doesnt think its a parasite but claims its parasitic in behavior like a guinea worm or tapeworm. The activities the human fetus does is comparible to what they do. If we have no problem killing guinea worms and tapeworms solely because of the actions they do inside someone elses body then, we should have no problem killing something else that fits the same characteristics.

 

[Henrin]

No, its not crazy at all.

Seeing some stranger's sonogram means nothing to me.

Seeing my sister's sonogram, changed everything. That fetus isn't a stranger. Its partially my flesh and blood.

Chances are it will possess some of my personality, some of my facial features.

Surely it deserves some level of respect and consideration.

I'm not sure why a strangers sonogram would mean nothing to you, but my point was there is something about seeing a sonogram that causes an emotional turmoil in people that results in them changing how they think about abortion. I know for me, it just made me even more sure in my stance, but for others it can completely flip them on the subject. I always thought that it was interesting how that happened and how people describe why it changed their minds.

 

[Summerwind]

Now watch, after calling the baby a parasite she'll be offended at you for calling her pro abortion.

Why would that offend me?

 

[Henrin]

FutureIncoming doesnt think its a parasite but claims its parasitic in behavior like a guinea worm or tapeworm. The activities the human fetus does is comparible to what they do. If we have no problem killing guinea worms and tapeworms solely because of the actions they do inside someone elses body then, we should have no problem killing something else that fits the same characteristics.

:roll: A tapeworm IS a parasite, while an unborn child is not a parasite regardless of how you wish to compare it to one. To assume its fine to kill the unborn because its fine to kill a tapeworm is insane.

 

[minnie616]

Very interesting.

I'd just like to know how many people would change their minds about abortion if it was proven to them that an unborn child could feel pain at 20 weeks.

Not many since most abortions happen before 20 weeks gestation.

And just for the record I have read many articles about when a fetus might feel pain and most agree the brain stem is not attached to the spinal cord until after 26 weeks gestation . Therefore a pre viable fetus would not feel pain.
Also the amniotic fluid contains chemicals that keeps the fetus in a pretty much semi conscious stage even when fetal consciousness does begin sometime after the 26 week gestation point.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

But if a fetus feels pain...could it remember pain endured between say 24 and 40 weeks...if it was brought to birth?

No it wouldnt remember anything. Humans dont have that complex memory until about 3 years of age when they actually know of their own existence. So if you sliced off a 1 year old humans arm off for example they wont remember it or remember the pain.

 

[Removable Mind]

Now watch, after calling the baby a parasite she'll be offended at you for calling her pro abortion.

X...please define "Pro-abortion".

Then please define "Pro-choice".

 

[Josie]

Well, I'd say that since near 90% of abortions occur by the 12th week...consequently the numbers of abortions done at 20 weeks for reasons other than defective fetal development or serious health issues effecting the woman...dunno?

Relatively speaking, not that many abortions are performed at 20 weeks.

Not many since most abortions happen before 20 weeks gestation.

And just for the record I have read many articles about when a fetus might feel pain and most agree the brain stem is not attached to the spinal cord until after 26 weeks gestation . Therefore a pre viable fetus would not feel pain.
Also the amniotic fluid contains chemicals that keeps the fetus in a pretty much semi conscious stage even when fetal consciousness does begin sometime after the 26 week gestation point.

I see that you both responded to my question "How many people would change their minds about abortion if it was proven that an unborn child feels pain at 20 weeks?" with "Well, not many abortions happen at 20 weeks anyway!" That's not an answer.

If it was proven to you that an unborn child feels pain at 20 weeks, would you be for a law making abortion illegal at 20 weeks? Yes or no.

 

[Josie]

It doesn't change my mind about abortion since I think it should be illegal from conception on except for very rare instances. But it might change the mind of someone who is for abortion and didn't realize that unborn children feel pain at such an early age.



I don't know your story, so I can't really respond to that. Are you unhappy that your life was saved?



No clue how you got that from what I posted.



Huh? I don't think I've ever posted with you or you with me, so.... ???



I think you're confused....



Again.... say what? I don't want anyone to feel pain at any moment, unborn or born.



That's what I said when I read your post.

Summerwind, could you reply to this post, please?

 

[Henrin]

And your reply is............



X...come on now. Why the double talk?

I believe you've stated that you are pro-life...are you not? Or at least conditionally so.

I don't think for a second that even pro-choice purposely wants a fetus to endure pain. But I think that you've implied that "pro-choice" don't care because they happen to believe in "choice".

I really don't think they care at all. It's just a way for them to justify their actions by saying it doesn't feel any pain. If it did feel pain I'm sure most of them would figure out a way to somehow justify their actions all the same.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

To assume its fine to kill the unborn because its fine to kill a tapeworm is insane.

They both do the same type of actions and we kill the typeworms and the guinea worms because of the action. If some other organism fits the same characteristics then we shouldnt have no problem killing it. There should be no objections unless you are going to arbitraily assign high value to one and not the others.