"Don't abort masturbating babies"

[Removable Mind]

Does it make a difference in how you view the issue? Who care if the fetus can feel pain or not, right? Out of sight, out of mind.

You're putting words in mouth. I simply asked at what developmental stage do you believe a fetus can feel pain?

 

[X Factor]

And of course, every unplanned pregnancy certainly means an abused child just as every wanted baby is always well treated.

 

[Summerwind]

Does it make a difference in how you view the issue? Who care if the fetus can feel pain or not, right? Out of sight, out of mind.

Unless somehow you're suggesting that the fetus upon birth will feel no pain (btw childbirth itself is painful), then YES, you're absolutely right, it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

 

[X Factor]

You're putting words in mouth. I simply asked at what developmental stage do you believe a fetus can feel pain?

What have I said that's inaccurate? Pain makes no difference to you, you just said it.

 

[Removable Mind]

What have I said that's inaccurate? Pain makes no difference to you, you just said it.

Are you talking to me?...

One more time: At what stage of development do YOU BELIEVE that a fetus can feel pain?

 

[Summerwind]

And of course, every unplanned pregnancy certainly means an abused child just as every wanted baby is always well treated.

Certainly no such over reach was suggested. The over reach is by the anti-choicers who try to suggest all children ultimately want to live. That is simply not true. Just as in the lives of those people born, wanted or otherwise, there is no white and there is no black, it's all grey. Exactly the reason we need to allow the mother, the one whose body the fetus lives off of, to make that decision. She's the best person to be able to look at the environment the child will be born into, she has to bear the primary brunt of the life of the child after it's born, even if the brunt is to put it up for adoption. With so much unknown, and no certainty as to the quality of life of the fetus if it is forced to be born and live in the non-natal world, with so much grey area, woman's choice is paramount.

 

[X Factor]

Unless somehow you're suggesting that the fetus upon birth will feel no pain (btw childbirth itself is painful), then YES, you're absolutely right, it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

I don't enjoy the thought of babies experiencing pain whether in the womb or not but I especially dislike the idea when it's during the course of their destruction.

 

[Josie]

Unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks....at least.

“At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG)” -- Dr. Paul Ranalli, a neurologist at the University of Toronto.

 

[X Factor]

Certainly no such over reach was suggested. The over reach is by the anti-choicers who try to suggest all children ultimately want to live. That is simply not true. Just as in the lives of those people born, wanted or otherwise, there is no white and there is no black, it's all grey. Exactly the reason we need to allow the mother, the one whose body the fetus lives off of, to make that decision. She's the best person to be able to look at the environment the child will be born into, she has to bear the primary brunt of the life of the child after it's born, even if the brunt is to put it up for adoption. With so much unknown, and no certainty as to the quality of life of the fetus if it is forced to be born and live in the non-natal world, with so much grey area, woman's choice is paramount.

I get it totally, as long as the baby is reliant on others it completely depends on those others just how long they should be allowed to live if at all.

 

[Summerwind]

I don't enjoy the thought of babies experiencing pain whether in the womb or not but I especially dislike the idea when it's during the course of their destruction.

Wow, you must try real hard to live in that storybook life of yours. I have news for you, usually the lead up to death hurts in some fashion...sometimes long and drawn out, sometimes "in their sleep" which really means they had a heart attack and no one was there to help, and heart attacks hurt right before they kill you. Furthermore, life is full of pains even for healthy, happy people. We fall, we stumble, we heal, we break, we re-design ourselves, we heal, and then we die. I mean seriously if being in pain were such an f'ing big deal, then why do so many people have so many unnecessary and cosmetic surgeries???? You want to suggest that feeling pain is an issue here, but you're just plain being a sissy about reality. Wah Wah it might feel pain. Well born or not, it's likely the case.

If you were to make an algebra equation regarding the pain of aborted vs non-aborted, if anything the pain on the aborted side would be 1x or maybe even 2x, but on the non-aborted it'd be ∞x. Clearly the aborted will be feeling less overall pain in it's life.

 

[Summerwind]

Unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks....at least.

“At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG)” -- Dr. Paul Ranalli, a neurologist at the University of Toronto.

So what? And born children will be feeling pains all their lives. So f'ing what does it have to do with abortion? I didn't notice anyone stopping all the pain I went through to have my live saved. If pain is the issue then I'm guessing you're saying that I should've been aborted at 20weeks when my heart condition could be noticed and the knowledge that my early years (not even counting the parental abuses here) would be full of medical pains.
You lack credibility because you lack consistency. If pain is issue then you have to allow abortion when the child will not be 100% healthy in a 100% painless life, and yet you don't. Any amount of post birth pain is okay with you, just not pre-birth. That's a truly f'ed up way to look at things.

 

[Removable Mind]

Unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks....at least.

“At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG)” -- Dr. Paul Ranalli, a neurologist at the University of Toronto.

Well, that's still up for debate. Check out the following:

In April, Nebraska passed a controversial first-in-the-nation law banning abortion of a fetus after 20 weeks' gestation. Now, in a blow to America's anti-abortion lobby, a British report has undercut the case for the measure, finding that fetuses at 24 weeks or less do not feel pain and exist in a state of "sedation" even afterward.

The report, commissioned by the British government and published this week by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, consists of a review of studies conducted since 1997 on the neuroanatomical and physiological development of the fetus. It concludes that fetuses at the 24-week stage of development do not possess the wiring to transmit pain signals from the body to the brain's cortex. Even after 24 weeks, the fetus likely exists in a state of "continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation," due to the presence of chemicals such as adenosine in the surrounding amniotic fluid.

Can a Fetus Feel Pain? U.K. Report Says No.

 

[Josie]

So what? And born children will be feeling pains all their lives. So f'ing what does it have to do with abortion?

It doesn't change my mind about abortion since I think it should be illegal from conception on except for very rare instances. But it might change the mind of someone who is for abortion and didn't realize that unborn children feel pain at such an early age.

I didn't notice anyone stopping all the pain I went through to have my live saved.

I don't know your story, so I can't really respond to that. Are you unhappy that your life was saved?

If pain is the issue then I'm guessing you're saying that I should've been aborted at 20weeks when my heart condition could be noticed and the knowledge that my early years (not even counting the parental abuses here) would be full of medical pains.

No clue how you got that from what I posted.

You lack credibility because you lack consistency.

Huh? I don't think I've ever posted with you or you with me, so.... ???

If pain is issue then you have to allow abortion when the child will not be 100% healthy in a 100% painless life, and yet you don't.

I think you're confused....

Any amount of post birth pain is okay with you, just not pre-birth.

Again.... say what? I don't want anyone to feel pain at any moment, unborn or born.

That's a truly f'ed up way to look at things.

That's what I said when I read your post.

 

[Josie]

Well, that's still up for debate. Check out the following:



Can a Fetus Feel Pain? U.K. Report Says No.

Very interesting.

I'd just like to know how many people would change their minds about abortion if it was proven to them that an unborn child could feel pain at 20 weeks.

 

[X Factor]

Wow, you must try real hard to live in that storybook life of yours. I have news for you, usually the lead up to death hurts in some fashion...sometimes long and drawn out, sometimes "in their sleep" which really means they had a heart attack and no one was there to help, and heart attacks hurt right before they kill you. Furthermore, life is full of pains even for healthy, happy people. We fall, we stumble, we heal, we break, we re-design ourselves, we heal, and then we die. I mean seriously if being in pain were such an f'ing big deal, then why do so many people have so many unnecessary and cosmetic surgeries???? You want to suggest that feeling pain is an issue here, but you're just plain being a sissy about reality. Wah Wah it might feel pain. Well born or not, it's likely the case.

If you were to make an algebra equation regarding the pain of aborted vs non-aborted, if anything the pain on the aborted side would be 1x or maybe even 2x, but on the non-aborted it'd be ∞x. Clearly the aborted will be feeling less overall pain in it's life.

Every single thing you said there applies to new borns, infants and children. The earlier you kill 'em, the less pain they'll experience in life (because, there's nothing positive or pleasurable about life). I'm not making issue about pain at all. It matters to me and I get that it doesn't matter to you.

 

[X Factor]

Very interesting.

I'd just like to know how many people would change their minds about abortion if it was proven to them that an unborn child could feel pain at 20 weeks.

Nobody, which was my point.

 

[Henrin]

Wow, you must try real hard to live in that storybook life of yours. I have news for you, usually the lead up to death hurts in some fashion...sometimes long and drawn out, sometimes "in their sleep" which really means they had a heart attack and no one was there to help, and heart attacks hurt right before they kill you. Furthermore, life is full of pains even for healthy, happy people. We fall, we stumble, we heal, we break, we re-design ourselves, we heal, and then we die. I mean seriously if being in pain were such an f'ing big deal, then why do so many people have so many unnecessary and cosmetic surgeries???? You want to suggest that feeling pain is an issue here, but you're just plain being a sissy about reality. Wah Wah it might feel pain. Well born or not, it's likely the case.

So causing pain isn't an issue for you? Interesting..

If you were to make an algebra equation regarding the pain of aborted vs non-aborted, if anything the pain on the aborted side would be 1x or maybe even 2x, but on the non-aborted it'd be ∞x. Clearly the aborted will be feeling less overall pain in it's life.

Why does overall pain over it's life matter here? We are talking about causing pain towards another human being, not if it will have x amount of pain over it's life. Do you somehow not get the problem with causing someone else pain?

 

[Removable Mind]

Very interesting.

I'd just like to know how many people would change their minds about abortion if it was proven to them that an unborn child could feel pain at 20 weeks.

Well, I'd say that since near 90% of abortions occur by the 12th week...consequently the numbers of abortions done at 20 weeks for reasons other than defective fetal development or serious health issues effecting the woman...dunno?

Relatively speaking, not that many abortions are performed at 20 weeks.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

You're putting words in mouth. I simply asked at what developmental stage do you believe a fetus can feel pain?

I belives its at the start of the third trimester. That is when both the spinal cord and the brain are connected which will allow pain signals to reach the brain. Over 99.9 percent of abortion happen before it gets to this point anyways

 

[Kanstantine]

Well, I'd say that since near 90% of abortions occur by the 12th week....

That's very good to know.

After seeing the sonogram of my soon to be born niece, my views on abortion has become more Conservative and limiting abortions to the 12th week except to protect the life of the mother makes sense to me.

 

[Henrin]

That's very good to know.

After seeing the sonogram of my soon to be born niece, my views on abortion has become more Conservative and limiting abortions to the 12th week except to protect the life of the mother makes sense to me.

It's crazy how often those things change minds.

 

[Removable Mind]

I belives its at the start of the third trimester. That is when both the spinal cord and the brain are connected which will allow pain signals to reach the brain. Over 99.9 percent of abortion happen before it gets to this point anyways

That might be closer to the truth. A group of researchers in England have been working on this issue since 1997 and they say up to 24 weeks...No. So you're probably in the ballpark.

But if a fetus feels pain...could it remember pain endured between say 24 and 40 weeks...if it was brought to birth?

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Unborn children feel pain at 20 weeks....at least.

“At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG)” -- Dr. Paul Ranalli, a neurologist at the University of Toronto.

There is more then one way to do abortions after 20 weeks without the human fetus feeling pain. Go to fightforsense.wordpress.org and scroll down to the 40's. That website belongs to FutureIncoming btw

 

[Removable Mind]

Nobody, which was my point.

It matters to you, Josie...and now Henin has weighed in. Sooooooooooooo? Yes there are some people who apparently feels it's an important issue.

But can you trust science enough to accept when pain can actually be felt? I mean...lets say that 95 percent of fetal pain researchers agreed that a fetus can't feel pain until say...24 weeks. Would knowing that really matter to you personally?

I asked that because...does the question of when a fetus can feel pain really matter to a person who doesn't believe in abortion at all....or with exceptions of rape or health of the mother?

 

[Henrin]

There is more then one way to do abortions after 20 weeks without the human fetus feeling pain. Go to fightforsense.wordpress.org and scroll down to the 40's. That website belongs to FutureIncoming btw

Lol, why would anyone read his material? That guy is constantly claiming a fetus is a parasite.