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Does Praying Change God's Plan/Mind

Gordy327 said:
Prayer has no effect on God's plan. Therefore Prater is effectively useless.
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Why should it? His purpose is perfect so there's no need to change it...OTOH, whether you'll be a part of that purpose or not depends on what you do or don't do...
 
BabaVoss said:
There are many folks whose daily horoscope is highly prophetic and incredibly meaningful in their lives. It’s hogwash, of course, but they see what they want to see.
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As you said yourself: horoscope is.........................prophetic.
I'm talking about prayers being answered by GOD.
Therefore, we're not talking about the same thing.






Everyone who has ever been prayed for has died or will die. Believers see what they want to see.
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Lol - I'm not saying praying people will never die. Who's claiming that?


.........................but, they didn't die at that particular time when they're supposed to have died.
They've recovered - some, rather miraculously.





Let's stay focused, please.
 
Daisy said:
Why should it? His purpose is perfect so there's no need to change it...OTOH, whether you'll be a part of that purpose or not depends on what you do or don't do...
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That only reaffirms prayer is useless. What I do is irrelevant if God has a plan, as I cannot do anything to alter said plan.
 
tosca1 said:
As you said yourself: horoscope is.........................prophetic.
I'm talking about prayers being answered by GOD.
Therefore, we're not talking about the same thing.
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Since there is no definitive proof God answers or has answered any prayer, prayer is nothing more than a feel good exercise in futility.
 
Gordy327 said:
That only reaffirms prayer is useless. What I do is irrelevant if God has a plan, as I cannot do anything to alter said plan.
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So, what part of this do you not understand?

Daisy said:
whether you'll be a part of that purpose or not depends on what you do or don't do...
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Question for the masses. You know who you are.

How does one prove a prayer has been answered?

A child with cancer has hundreds, if not thousands of people (of many denominations and faiths) praying for the child to survive.
Child survives.

Prove it was the prayer that did it, and not simply just science, and the medical professionals who cared for child.
 
BabaVoss said:
There are many folks whose daily horoscope is highly prophetic and incredibly meaningful in their lives. It’s hogwash, of course, but they see what they want to see. Everyone who has ever been prayed for has died or will die. Believers see what they want to see.
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GOD ultimately already knows what a man will pray for. Prayer allows the man to see GOD working in his life...
 
tosca1 said:
As you said yourself: horoscope is.........................prophetic.
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Well, they seem to think so. They also find it incredibly meaningful. But there is nothing there. This was in answer to your ‘prayers are answered by god’ comment. If you think they were, then your belief is reinforced. Its a well-designed cult.

tosca1 said:
I'm talking about prayers being answered by GOD.
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You are talking about prayers you interpret as being answered by god. They aren’t really. But a believer will see and interpret something that way, sure.

tosca1 said:
Therefore, we're not talking about the same thing.
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What they have in common is a belief in something because they want to believe it, not because there is actually anything there.

A tornado strikes a small town, and leaves 1 or 2 houses standing. ”God saved us” say the people in those two houses. Did god hate the other people? Didn’t god send the tornado in the first place? Maybe someone prayed for the town to be wiped out, and god answered that prayer.

It’s all hocus pocus.

tosca1 said:
Lol - I'm not saying praying people will never die. Who's claiming that?
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People do it all the time. “Oh, let’s pray for uncle Bob, he’s very ill”. If he got better, those prayers were answered. If he got worse and died, well, he is at peace with god now. If something unexpected happens, god works in mysterious ways. It is a closed loop system, and the answer is always god. There’s just no actual evidence to support the idea of prayers and gods.

Believe whatever you like, but a belief in this kind of stuff is not rational. Just like a horoscope or reading tea leaves.
 
Gordy327 said:
Speak for yourself. If God has a plan, anything we do or don't do is a part of that plan.
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No, it's not...individuals are not included in that plan, only mankind as a whole...that is where our free will comes into play...God's foreknowledge does not fix our eternal destiny...the choice is ours...

" I have put life and death before you...you must choose life so that you may live," Deuteronomy 30:19
 
Daisy said:
No, it's not...individuals are not included in that plan, only mankind as a whole...
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How do you know? Do you have a copy of gods plan? It's quite arrogant to speak for God. BTW, mankind is made up of individuals. So individuals are included in that plan by default.
Daisy said:
..God's foreknowledge does not fix our eternal destiny...the choice is ours...
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Yes, it does. God knew what we would do when he set the universe in motion. So nothing we do can be different than what God knows.
 
Daisy said:
Deuteronomy 30:19...

No, it doesn't...Deuteronomy 30:19...
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That doesn't detail gods plan. Mankind is still composed of individuals too.
 
Daisy said:
No, that shows that man has free will...
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Impossible if God set Everything in motion with full knowledge of what would happen according to his plan.
 
Gordy327 said:
Impossible if God set Everything in motion with full knowledge of what would happen according to his plan.
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Wrong...nothing set into motion can abort His purpose...
 
Daisy said:
Wrong...nothing set into motion can abort His purpose...
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Which means we cannot choose anything contrary to his purpose or what he knows. You just argued against free will. Thanks
 
Gordy327 said:
Which means we cannot choose anything contrary to his purpose or what he knows. You just argued against free will. Thanks
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What part of "God's purpose can go on with or without you", do you not understand? Your free will is still intact...
 
Daisy said:
What part of "God's purpose can go on with or without you", do you not understand? Your free will is still intact...
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What part of god's omnipotence and foreknowledge negates free will do you not understand?
 
Gordy327 said:
What part of god's omnipotence and foreknowledge negates free will do you not understand?
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