Does Praying Change God's Plan/Mind

[Dragonfly]

Mad props to Lisa for the meme.

Now:

If you pray to god, and god "answers your prayers", did you effectively "change god's plan"?

If not, then praying was useless right?

If so, then what you're saying is god can change his mind/plan. Correct?

 

[Gordy327]

Prayer is nothing more than a mental comfort mechanism or a useless gesture to make one feel like they've done something useful. But there's no objective evidence of prayer ever having any tangible effect.

 

[Lisa]

Mad props to Lisa for the meme.

Now:

If you pray to god, and god "answers your prayers", did you effectively "change god's plan"?

If not, then praying was useless right?

If so, then what you're saying is god can change his mind/plan. Correct?

If god changes his plans for you once then physics says that every other plan likewise changes. Butterfly effect. If he isn't omnipotent and omniscient then why do they pray to him? Logic is a foreign language to these nitwits.

the philosopher Epicurus asked: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?” Some complete it: “Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

The trilemma of evil in a classical question | New Scientist

www.newscientist.com

Prayer is nothing more than a mental comfort mechanism or a useless gesture to make one feel like they've done something useful. But there's no objective evidence of prayer ever having any tangible effect.

Religious mental masturbation. Its feeds their narcissism and delusions.

 

[Gordy327]

Religious mental masturbation. Its feeds their narcissism and delusions.

Or perhaps more like mental impotence?

 

[Dragonfly]

Prayer is nothing more than a mental comfort mechanism or a useless gesture to make one feel like they've done something useful. But there's no objective evidence of prayer ever having any tangible effect.

If god changes his plans for you once then physics says that every other plan likewise changes. Butterfly effect. If he isn't omnipotent and omniscient then why do they pray to him? Logic is a foreign language to these nitwits.

The trilemma of evil in a classical question | New Scientist

www.newscientist.com

Religious mental masturbation. Its feeds their narcissism and delusions.

There are people here at DP who will swear on a stack of their favorite bibles that they have prayed to Jesus/god, and that their prayers have been answered.

So the question is: Did they change God's mind/plan with those prayers?

Scenario:

Jimmy has cancer.
Theist prays for Jimmy to be cured of cancer.
Jimmy eventually is cured.

Did the prayers result in the cure? So no praying, then no cure, and dead Jimmy?

Or, was Jimmy going to survive and be cured regardless of the prayers?

 

[Lisa]

There are people here at DP who will swear on a stack of their favorite bibles that they have prayed to Jesus/god, and that their prayers have been answered.

So the question is: Did they change God's mind/plan with those prayers?

Religious delusions and confirmation bias.

Scenario:

Jimmy has cancer.
Theist prays for Jimmy to be cured of cancer.
Jimmy eventually is cured.

Did the prayers result in the cure? So no praying, then no cure, and dead Jimmy?

Or, was Jimmy going to survive and be cured regardless of the prayers?

Is jimmy in the hospital receiving treatment based on objective medical science?


Take a look at the apologetic BS that religious leaders create to explain away logic.

7 Reasons Why Prayers Are Not Answered

There are reasons why prayers are not answered, even though I get a little impatient with super-spiritual saints who leave the impression that they have a deeper grasp of prayer than most.

churchleaders.com

 

[Lisa]

Or perhaps more like mental impotence?

Facts are very embarrassing.

Why Are Religious People (Generally) Less Intelligent?

Understanding the negative relationship between IQ and religiosity

www.psychologytoday.com

Mad props to Lisa for the meme.

Now:

If you pray to god, and god "answers your prayers", did you effectively "change god's plan"?

If not, then praying was useless right?

If so, then what you're saying is god can change his mind/plan. Correct?

Or god doesn't exist and we don't have free will, so the outcome was predetermined in your favor anyhow. Prayer is a waste of time.

 

[samiam5211]

All prayer does is make someone feel better.

That is of great value though.

 

[Gordy327]

Facts are very embarrassing.

Why Are Religious People (Generally) Less Intelligent?

Understanding the negative relationship between IQ and religiosity

www.psychologytoday.com

That's similar to my article about the correlation between religiosity and hostility toward or ignorance of science.

 

[Gordy327]

All prayer does is make someone feel better.

That is of great value though.

Like I said, it's a mental comfort mechanism. But otherwise useless.

 

[soylentgreen]

On the other hand, to be fair. Can anyone think of a better way to talk to someone who is not there.

 

[Gordy327]

There are people here at DP who will swear on a stack of their favorite bibles that they have prayed to Jesus/god, and that their prayers have been answered.

Yes, I have noticed.

So the question is: Did they change God's mind/plan with those prayers?

Scenario:

Jimmy has cancer.
Theist prays for Jimmy to be cured of cancer.
Jimmy eventually is cured.

Did the prayers result in the cure? So no praying, then no cure, and dead Jimmy?

Or, was Jimmy going to survive and be cured regardless of the prayers?

You'll probably get a lame explanation along the lines of "God's will" or some nonsense like that.

 

[Lisa]

That's similar to my article about the correlation between religiosity and hostility toward or ignorance of science.

The neuroscience of religious and spiritual experience

Have you ever wondered what happens in the brain when you believe in God? We take a look at neuroscientific studies that may explain spiritual experience.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

On the other hand, to be fair. Can anyone think of a better way to talk to someone who is not there.

As an atheist, watching two people discuss god to me has the same appearance of two people who have been blind from birth arguing about the color purple. Its the logical equivalent of a funhouse mirror. I don't know whether I should laugh or cry. The fact that I share a society with them and they have a drivers license and are permitted to own firearms is terrifying.

And people wonder why I am an introvert.................

 

[TheParser]

1. Some people say that God answers all prayers -- but the answer may be YES or NO or WAIT.

2. I have been praying to God to stop the brutal and stupid war in you-know-where. I assume that God has answered with "WAIT."

3. I pray because, yes, I feel better after doing so:

a. Every day I pray that my beloved brother in Heaven will send me a sign that he forgives me for doing such a stupid job in caring for him. I may have received a sign, but I am still waiting for a definitive sign. Prayer gives me hope.

b. Every day I pray that my strength will come back after having taken some medicine that sapped all my strength. The doctors said it would return in 6 months. It has been 9 months, and I am still waiting. Prayer gives me hope.

 

[Gordy327]

On the other hand, to be fair. Can anyone think of a better way to talk to someone who is not there.

Like a child talking to their imaginary friend.

 

[Lisa]

Like a child talking to their imaginary friend.

I have a meme for that.

 

[samiam5211]

Like I said, it's a mental comfort mechanism. But otherwise useless.

yes, but a mental comfort mechanism is far from useless.

 

[Gordy327]

yes, but a mental comfort mechanism is far from useless.

It just makes one feel good without actually doing anything. Prayer is useless as far as any actual tangible effect on outcomes.

 

[Lisa]

yes, but a mental comfort mechanism is far from useless.

If they would admit that I would be much more tolerant. I have no problem with Buddhist mantras.

 

[Gordy327]

I have a meme for that.

Good one. You should post that in Hanglow's thread too.

 

[samiam5211]

It just makes one feel good without actually doing anything. Prayer is useless as far as any actual tangible effect on outcomes.

feeling better can often have a tangible effect on outcomes.

 

[samiam5211]

If they would admit that I would be much more tolerant. I have no problem with Buddhist mantras.

I don't mind that they don't admit it. The fact that they believe in a higher power that I don't doesn't bother me.

 

[Lisa]

Good one. You should post that in Hanglow's thread too.

I harvested them from an atheist Facebook group I used to be part of.

I don't mind that they don't admit it. The fact that they believe in a higher power that I don't doesn't bother me.

It does when they try to push it on others. That's where I draw the line.

 

[Gordy327]

feeling better can often have a tangible effect on outcomes.

Mind over matter. Prayer itself doesn't actually affect anything.

 

[Airyaman]

One facet of prayer I never understood even when I was a Christian was praying for the recovery of seemingly terminally ill people. Wouldn't it be better for them in heaven? Why pray they survive; perhaps pray for a quick painless death instead?

(Which tells you that even Christians know deep down this one life is all there is)