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Does Praying Change God's Plan/Mind

It's not like God has a solid plan anyways. He just wings it and sees where things go.
 
Gordy327 said:
Since there is no definitive proof God answers or has answered any prayer, prayer is nothing more than a feel good exercise in futility.
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Your logic isn't sound.

Depending on what you want to have as a "definitive proof," there are however, several CORROBORATING evidences the Abrahamic God exists.
There are MILLIONS of CORROBORATING EVIDENCES that the Abrahamic God answers prayers.

SCIENCE had acknowledged RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES!
I suppose, just because they can't do a study on the supernatural ...................................................... they can't ignore them anymore.



The National Academy of Sciences also says:

Science is not the only way of acquiring knowledge about ourselves and the world around us.
Humans gain understanding in many other ways, such as through literature, the arts, philosophical reflection, and religious experience.
Scientific knowledge may enrich aesthetic and moral perceptions, but these subjects extend beyond science's realm, which is to obtain a better understanding of the natural world.

WMAP Site FAQs

Public access site for The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and associated information about cosmology.
map.gsfc.nasa.gov map.gsfc.nasa.gov






prayer is nothing more than a feel good exercise in futility.
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You're giving a faulty conclusion.

You - on the other hand - don't have squat to support your conclusion!


Do you know the meaning of, "FUTILITY?"
It means a "useless act."


How can you conclude prayers are useless when we see positive outcomes?


I know my experiences were answers from God.
What more proof do I need when God threw my question back at me - VERBATIM - just moments before He proceeded to answer it?
It's NOT the only evidence I have, either!
What more proof do I want when an acquaintance who was an atheist gave his testimony right in the middle of a parking lot - explaining how he ended up praying to God while driving home, due to money he owed -
and when he got home, he checked his mailbox and found a cheque for the EXACT AMOUNT TO THE PENNY, of money he owed! Needless to say, he became a Christian due to that experience!
Receiving money needed - exactly to the penny - I read another testimony about that, and also a minister on tv related the same experience he's had as a young man.

You may not agree that they came from God - but then, you're not the one who experienced them - and, you cannot offer any other explanations for them................CAN YOU?


Would you have said the same thing about atoms......................BEFORE they got evidence for it?
When they were trying to figure out atoms, would you have said that of scientific observations and analysis - "hey, that's just a feel good exercise in futility!"


Don't be silly.
 
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Dragonfly said:
Question for the masses. You know who you are.

How does one prove a prayer has been answered?

A child with cancer has hundreds, if not thousands of people (of many denominations and faiths) praying for the child to survive.
Child survives.

Prove it was the prayer that did it, and not simply just science, and the medical professionals who cared for child.
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If the survivor says she had prayed to God (and she sees it as an answer from God) - why do we have to prove it?
She's the one who's experienced it. It's a personal experience.


When GOD answers YOUR prayers - you'll know that it comes from GOD.
You will know!
Somehow - He'll let you know.
 
Dragonfly said:
Irony.
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@Gordy327
@BabaVoss

:rolleyes:


Speaking of irony - isn't your answer the mother of ironies? 😁

Refer to post #159.


A child with cancer has hundreds, if not thousands of people (of many denominations and faiths) praying for the child to survive.
Child survives.

Prove it was the prayer that did it, and not simply just science, and the medical professionals who cared for child.
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Actually - the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on your shoulders.

WHY?

I'm assuming that the child's condition has been determined terminal by medical profession: NOTHING CAN BE MEDICALLY DONE about it.
It's just about paliative care now. easing the suffering until the end comes.
The child was prayed for by thousands.
He survives.

The child's survival is deemed as an intervention from God.
The parents says it's an answer to prayers.







Does it matter what denominations people belong to, who prayed for the child?
Some may belong to other faith - but they're also praying for the child. Does the fact that they pray for the same child, do their prayers count? I don't know.

That the child had survived, is the proof that is being offered by believers that their prayers were answered by God.
You say, it's not. PROVE IT.



Furthermore - if the child claims she talked to GOD..........................telling her she'll be fine.






.......................the onus is on you to prove it that it's not an answer from God.
 
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Dragonfly said:
Prove it was the prayer that did it, and not simply just science, and the medical professionals who cared for child.
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@Gordy327


Anyway............

What makes you assume God wouldn't use medical science and medical professionals at all?
 
tosca1 said:
@Gordy327


Anyway............

What makes you assume God wouldn't use medical science and medical professionals at all?
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Your religious apologetic nonsense is a stretch. Doctors use medical science. Why would God need to when he can supposedly heal or even raise the dead with a thought?
But if you are also going to claim prayer has an effect in lieu of medicine, then it's on you to prove it!
 
tosca1 said:
The child's survival is deemed as an intervention from God.
The parents says it's an answer to prayers.
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tosca1 said:
.......................the onus is on you to prove it that it's not an answer from God.
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Wrong! That's not how the burden of proof works! If they claim god answered or intervened, then they bear the burden of proving it! Otherwise it's simple an empty and emotionally based claim and is otherwise easily dismised.
 
Get in enough fear, desperation, pain, or hopelessness and I guarantee you'll eventually be praying and begging to something.
 
grip said:
Get in enough fear, desperation, pain, or hopelessness and I guarantee you'll eventually be praying and begging to something.
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Which is nothing more than an emotional reaction and/or mental comfort mechanism.
 
grip said:
When faced with losing all you know, it becomes much more than that.
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No, that's all it is. It only seems like more.
 
I've seen enough here.

This isn't about changing God's mind. God is infinite true mind. We, on the other hand, don't always exhibit the capacity to receive infinite truth mentally. If you pray, you may improve your capacity, and other people's, too. Then, the small corner of the universe that is your mental experience may become improved.

This has been explained by many wise individuals. Be grateful for the thing you pray for and you will receive it. If you desire something, by definition alone, you absolutely can't be experiencing having it. There is also an excellent psychological explanation.

My mother used to say Be grateful for what you want seven times a day, and it will be able to find you. I would complain, But I don't believe, and she would say, With my system, you don't have to believe. Just do it until it has meaning. Remarkably, it would have meaning.

I used to love the Japanese proverb translated as "A samurai, though not eatin, picks his teeth" (Bushi wa kuwanedo, yoshi o). My freer definition, "The samurai picks his teeth after no lunch," can change the universe for those with a sense of humor - but not without one.
 
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I always laugh when I hear people "pray" so that their team can win a ball game, or when somebody "prays" to win the lotto, or get a new bike for Christmas.
How offensive that must be to the God of the universe who oversees billions of souls, many who live without knowing where their next meal will come from.
In my opinion the worst are these prosperity huckster evangelists, and the list of them is long. I don't think a God of the universe created all of this just to be an ATM machine.
 
Dogma vs doctrine

39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

It is OK...normal..expected...to pray to God for relief...for change...for miracles. What we all should understand is that our greatest strength in prayer is sustenance...support...comfort. God will not remove all our burdens and why some miracles are granted and others arent is a mystery. But we will always find more strength in our understanding of doctrine than in our all too mortal hope for dogmatic response.

If we embrace as desirable the gift of choice and agency, then we must accept that that will come with consequence. Opposition. Pain.
 
Gordy327 said:
Your religious apologetic nonsense is a stretch. Doctors use medical science. Why would God need to when he can supposedly heal or even raise the dead with a thought?
But if you are also going to claim prayer has an effect in lieu of medicine, then it's on you to prove it!
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:rolleyes:


On that same token, why would God have to use King Cyrus (a pagan to boot), when He can supposedly do anything - and that with Him, nothing is impossible?
And yet - He used Cyrus.



Actually - your atheistic apologetic nonsense is so RIGID that it can't stretch - not even a tiny bit.
That's what happens when one's thinking is forced to be within the confines of a closed mind! 😁

That's what happens too, when we keep trying to debate about issues we hardly know!
The ignorance on the subject - in this case, Abrahamic God/Christianity - will definitely show.



God ALWAYS does things for a reason.
HIS reason.
What His reason(s) are may not be obvious to an observer........................... or, even to the recipient of His favor/blessing.


Like, with the cancer survivor - have you considered the possibility that GOD may have also had something planned for any of the medical team involved in the healing of the patient?
Why should we assume the benefit is only for the patient?

Who knows what each and everyone involved in the healing was going through at the time?
Perhaps, the healing was an answer to a doctor's own prayers about his own ability as a surgeon? We don't know.
And most certainly, you don't!
 
Dragonfly said:
Mad props to Lisa for the meme. (y)

Now:

If you pray to god, and god "answers your prayers", did you effectively "change god's plan"?

If not, then praying was useless right?

If so, then what you're saying is god can change his mind/plan. Correct?
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Well, God isn't real, so there's that.

But answering from the other side, prayers aren't really meant to be about getting something - rich, cured, etc. It's meant to be about seeking strength and comfort to face challenges.
 
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