Does Obama get blamed for hostage rescue failure...

[Mycroft]

Um, did you not read my position in this thread?

I did and I wasn't talking about you, in particular.

I'm talking about all those people who trumpeted that "Obama got Osama" so much in the past...how many of them are now not blaming him for this failed mission.

 

[radcen]

The sitting President usually gets credit or blame for things like this.

 

[obvious Child]

I'm not an Obama supporter, but I don't blame him for that failure. Do I give him credit for Bin Laden? Only insofar as he okayed the mission. The logistics, the mission planning, its success? That credit goes to others.

What Obama DOES get credit/blame for in OBL's liquidation is authorizing the act of war against Pakistan. Remember that every drone attack we do in the Middle East now is in some way backed by the local government. What Obama did in OBL was authorize an invasion of Pakistan that was completely unauthorized by the Pakistani government. It's one thing to lob missiles at a target, it's another to actually send soldiers in to effectively assassinate a person living in Pakistan. As President, he deserves whatever criticism or credit you would assign to that singular act.

Ultimately though, the buck stops at the Oval Office, even if the President's only influence was authorizing the strike.

 

[MAGAnificent]

We can only wonder about this.

The sad part about Clinton's failure to get Bin Laden was the reasons he did not get him. In one case, a perfect opportunity presented itself in the field and he would not give the "go" because he was frightened over what collateral damage might do to his precious high approval ratings. In another case, the government of Sudan basically offered to hand him over to US custody. Clinton later admitted in so many words that he did not take them up on the offer because he was confused or afraid over legalities.

 

[Dayton3]

Are there any honest Obama opponents out there?

If Obama made it rain cookies some people would complain about a milk shortage.

If Obama made it rain cookies his wife would probably take a club to him.

 

[Mason66]

Are there any honest Obama opponents out there?

If Obama made it rain cookies some people would complain about a milk shortage.

That would be horrible if they were not gluten free.

 

[cpwill]

For what it's worth I rolled my eyes when the credit for getting Bin Laden was given to Obama, just as I rolled my eyes when Bush was given credit for attacking the Taliban after 9/11. These are actions any president would do. There is no president who wouldn't have authorized the invasion of Afghanistan, or get Bin Laden or attempt to rescue Somers. If you believe a different president would have acted differently then you need to remove your head from your ass.

....I would have agreed with you until a little bit ago. Since then, the more I've learned, the more I've come to respect that both of those decisions are gutsy calls, though the OBL raid probably more so than the attempt to rescue Somers. Obama deserves (limited) credit for the latter, and more credit for the former.

 

[Cardinal]

....I would have agreed with you until a little bit ago. Since then, the more I've learned, the more I've come to respect that both of those decisions are gutsy calls, though the OBL raid probably more so than the attempt to rescue Somers. Obama deserves (limited) credit for the latter, and more credit for the former.

See, I just can't wrap my head around not making the call to invade Afghanistan, attack Bin Laden or rescue Somers. How would either President explain themselves to the public for not going ahead with those decisions?

 

[whysoserious]

To be fair, many presidents wouldn't have gone after Bin Laden. As I recall, Biden and Clinton were against it. Similarly, I recall McCain and Romney stating they wouldn't have gone into Pakistan if viable terrorist targets were available.

I actually think Obama got lucky, as things could have gone south very easily.

I remember reading a quote a long time ago from a republican that said one of his major criticisms of Clinton's presidency was that he was too obsessed with catching OBL. It's hard to find the quote now, because all that comes up is Clinton talking about the quote.

*Edit:

I found it:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2014/11/conservative-nonsense-political-history
As Robert Oakley, a top counterterrorism official under Reagan, said just before George W. Bush took office, “The only major criticism I have is (Clinton’s) obsession with Osama.”

 

[blaxshep]

If Obama made it rain cookies some people would complain about a milk shortage.

That would be a great opportunity for the Democrats to implement a big government milk entitlement program created behind closed doors that we have to pass to find out what is in it ... of course you would be able to keep your favorite brand.

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

To be fair, many presidents wouldn't have gone after Bin Laden. As I recall, Biden and Clinton were against it. Similarly, I recall McCain and Romney stating they wouldn't have gone into Pakistan if viable terrorist targets were available.

I actually think Obama got lucky, as things could have gone south very easily.

Bush was also labeled a cowboy and a wild card, accused of lack of respect for the sovereignty of other nations. If Bush had authorized a strike on bin Laden in Pakistan, he would have been accused of invading a nuclear power and trying to usher in WWIII for his buddies at Haliburton.

Obama got very lucky, both with the expert planning and execution on behalf of a handful of shooters, and the fact that he had has enjoyed an easy media willing to praise his actions as either accomplishments (if positive) or failures caused by his political enemies. If the bin Laden takedown had gone south, I would not have been surprised to see a general or two hung out to dry, citing Republican pressure to act in spite of the administration's efforts toward diplomacy with a valued ally in the region.

 

[cpwill]

See, I just can't wrap my head around not making the call to invade Afghanistan, attack Bin Laden or rescue Somers. How would either President explain themselves to the public for not going ahead with those decisions?

WRT the OBL and Somers raid, the answer is easy: he never would have had to. As far as the public knew, no one had any idea where these guys were. Then it comes down to risk.

 

[Cardinal]

Bush was also labeled a cowboy and a wild card, accused of lack of respect for the sovereignty of other nations. If Bush had authorized a strike on bin Laden in Pakistan, he would have been accused of invading a nuclear power and trying to usher in WWIII for his buddies at Haliburton.

Not by me he wouldn't. I would have "accused him" of doing his ****ing job, instead of, oh I don't know, not really knowing where Osama is, and that he just doesn't spend that much time on him, to be honest.

Obama got very lucky, both with the expert planning and execution on behalf of a handful of shooters, and the fact that he had has enjoyed an easy media willing to praise his actions as either accomplishments (if positive) or failures caused by his political enemies. If the bin Laden takedown had gone south, I would not have been surprised to see a general or two hung out to dry, citing Republican pressure to act in spite of the administration's efforts toward diplomacy with a valued ally in the region.

Is this something that's happening after the failed Somers rescue? Or is your post just obvious troll bait?

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

Not by me he wouldn't. I would have "accused him" of doing his ****ing job, instead of, oh I don't know, not really knowing where Osama is, and that he just doesn't spend that much time on him, to be honest.



Is this something that's happening after the failed Somers rescue? Or is your post just obvious troll bait?

It's standard political fodder. Nothing more. Conservatives blame Obama for everything and don't give him credit... And they learned it from the liberals who threw eggs at Bush at his inauguration in 2001.

When Osama was completely cut off from the outside world, Bush hunted the number 2 and 3 guys. You know, the actual shot callers. And he was accused of not caring about bin Laden. Revenge is never as important as prioritization. Never. But that doesn't seem to matter.

I just wish liberals would recognize their own dirty hands in this. God knows there are armies of dumb conservatives out there giving themselves a bad name... I just wish liberals would police their own idiots from time to time.

Not calling you an idiot or anything. But hating Bush is no different than hating Obama. No different.

 

[shrubnose]

That would be a great opportunity for the Democrats to implement a big government milk entitlement program created behind closed doors that we have to pass to find out what is in it ... of course you would be able to keep your favorite brand.

Sounds like a great idea for America's moms and dairy farmers.

 

[Cardinal]

It's standard political fodder. Nothing more. Conservatives blame Obama for everything and don't give him credit... And they learned it from the liberals who threw eggs at Bush at his inauguration in 2001.

When Osama was completely cut off from the outside world, Bush hunted the number 2 and 3 guys. You know, the actual shot callers. And he was accused of not caring about bin Laden. Revenge is never as important as prioritization. Never. But that doesn't seem to matter.

I just wish liberals would recognize their own dirty hands in this. God knows there are armies of dumb conservatives out there giving themselves a bad name... I just wish liberals would police their own idiots from time to time.

Not calling you an idiot or anything. But hating Bush is no different than hating Obama. No different.

Nice rant.

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

Nice rant.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the "BUSH LIED - PEOPLE DIED" crowd would praise his actions of crossing the border of a nuclear armed country in the dead of night to murder a criminal who should have been brought to justice (please read that tongue in cheek, because I stand behind the President's call to approve the raid).

Probably would have thrown the word "murder" around quite a bit. Would have called bin Laden a patsy, couldn't have him talking now. Nope, don't want him to go on record talking about the comfortable relationship between the Saudi's and the Bush oil empire.

Jesus, it's too easy to come up with this tripe. And no one can honestly tell me it wouldn't have happened. You know it would have. Come on.

 

[Cardinal]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the "BUSH LIED - PEOPLE DIED" crowd would praise his actions of crossing the border of a nuclear armed country in the dead of night to murder a criminal who should have been brought to justice (please read that tongue in cheek, because I stand behind the President's call to approve the raid).

Probably would have thrown the word "murder" around quite a bit. Would have called bin Laden a patsy, couldn't have him talking now. Nope, don't want him to go on record talking about the comfortable relationship between the Saudi's and the Bush oil empire.

Jesus, it's too easy to come up with this tripe. And no one can honestly tell me it wouldn't have happened. You know it would have. Come on.

I find losing sleep over what Libruls "would have done" to be an excellent use of my time, myself.

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

I find losing sleep over what Libruls "would have done" to be an excellent use of my time, myself.

I'm not losing sleep over it. I was simply arguing against the assertion that Obama made an exceptionally brave call that no one else would have. McCain and Romney had to say they wouldn't authorize strikes into Pakistan, because the alternative would play like war-happy hawks eager to get into another conflict. Back on the 2008 campaign trail, Obama promised to go into Pakistan if the Pakistanis didn't get the work done themselves. He was lambasted for this as inexperienced and naive in diplomatic affairs.

And these are (were) valid criticisms, simply because we had already been conducting cross border strikes pretty regularly. We had already embarrassed Pakistan on several occasions and had no respect for the border in the mountains as it was. Cross-border raids were a daily occurrence with occasional deep pushes. Bush took a ton of flak for this kind of foreign policy. And when Obama promised more of it, it was to appear tough to American voters, not to appease the Pakistanis. In fact, it pissed them off even more. They started rattling their sabers at us even louder, and this was over a year before the election, just over a promise from a candidate! It was a dumb thing to say into a microphone. Of course it's the right course of action; it was then, and it is now. But some things you just don't say.

Would McCain have OKed the raid? Absolutely. Romney? Absolutely. H. Clinton? Absolutely. Biden? Absolutely (if he were in the driver's seat). There is no way any of them would have passed up the chance to "get bin Laden." It's like crossing a highway on foot to grab a winning lottery ticket - anyone in the driver's seat would stop the car immediately and go for it. The passengers might advise caution... but they wouldn't get the money either way, nothing to gain. The only person who we absolutely know might have declined the raid is the one guy who passed up several chances - Bill Clinton. Even he might have approved NEPTUNE SPEAR, but we know for sure he cited "collateral damage" on more than one occasion in the past. Post 9/11, though, I'd put it closer to 80/20.