Does free speech outweigh a violation of the establishment clause... looks like we'll find out soon enough.

[Shrink726]

Supreme Court preview: Kennedy v. Bremerton School District - Harvard Law School

The Supreme Court stands poised to decide whether a high school coach’s penchant for prayers with players poses First Amendment problems.

today.law.harvard.edu

To me this should be a no-brainer but to others, perhaps not.

 

[Loulit01]

If you're being payed by the government you can't lead prayers while acting in your official capacity. On the football field as a coach he's on the taxpayer's dime. He can't lead prayers.

The simple solution is to have a student athlete lead the prayers but that would make sense.

 

[Shrink726]

Belief in fairy tales is really so annoying and speaks to the victims' profound lack of critical thinking skills.

Idiots who succumb to such patent nonsense should not be teaching children.

 

[Mycroft]

If you're being payed by the government you can't lead prayers while acting in your official capacity. On the football field as a coach he's on the taxpayer's dime. He can't lead prayers.

The simple solution is to have a student athlete lead the prayers but that would make sense.

I haven't read the article...religious issues just don't interest me all that much. But something you said that is non-religious caught my attention...and I have a question: Is a school district a "government"? I know school districts can levy taxes, but does that make them a government?

I'm not trying to be oppositional here. I'm just asking about something I don't know.

btw, I agree with your simple solution.

 

[Loulit01]

I haven't read the article...religious issues just don't interest me all that much. But something you said that is non-religious caught my attention...and I have a question: Is a school district a "government"? I know school districts can levy taxes, but does that make them a government?

I'm not trying to be oppositional here. I'm just asking about something I don't know.

btw, I agree with your simple solution.

The coach is paid by the taxpayers through the school district. I consider that government.

The problem is taxpayers of many faiths contribute to the school district and thereby to the coach's salary. So if he's leading prayers of one faith, he's a government employee favoring one religion over others. Can't do that. The kids can pray all they like to whatever god strikes their fancy.

 

[Shrink726]

The coach is paid by the taxpayers through the school district. I consider that government.

The problem is taxpayers of many faiths contribute to the school district and thereby to the coach's salary. So if he's leading prayers of one faith, he's a government employee favoring one religion over others. Can't do that. The kids can pray all they like to whatever god strikes their fancy.

But they shouldn't be able to on taxpayer funded property.

If these pinhead imbeciles want to worship their sky fairies off school property that's fine, but not on something that I'm helping to pay for.

 

[Loulit01]

But they shouldn't be able to on taxpayer funded property.

If these pinhead imbeciles want to worship their sky fairies off school property that's fine, but not on something that I'm helping to pay for.

You mean the students shouldn't be able to pray on taxpayer funded property?

 

[BlueTex]

I haven't read the article...religious issues just don't interest me all that much. But something you said that is non-religious caught my attention...and I have a question: Is a school district a "government"? I know school districts can levy taxes, but does that make them a government?

I'm not trying to be oppositional here. I'm just asking about something I don't know.

btw, I agree with your simple solution.

Yes, it is well established that public schools and their employees are the government.

 

[Shrink726]

Correct!

They can engage in their primitive rituals at home, in churches, synagogues and mosques but not in publicly funded institutions.

 

[Loulit01]

Correct!

They can engage in their primitive rituals at home, in churches, synagogues and mosques but not in publicly funded institutions.

Yeah, no. I prayed before many tests in high school. There were lunch tables that said grace together everyday. Private citizens have freedom of religion and may pray wherever they wish.

 

[Shrink726]

Yeah, no. I prayed before many tests in high school. There were lunch tables that said grace together everyday. Private citizens have freedom of religion and may pray wherever they wish.

Not in my America. Having said that I recognize that there's no way to stop someone from praying silently anywhere but if you're going to have an idiot-fest in public with any kind of organization, you better do it elsewhere or be prepared to get fined or otherwise sanctioned.

 

[ttwtt78640]

If you're being payed by the government you can't lead prayers while acting in your official capacity. On the football field as a coach he's on the taxpayer's dime. He can't lead prayers.

The simple solution is to have a student athlete lead the prayers but that would make sense.

That (bolded above) is nonsense which would make having publicly funded chaplains unconstitutional.

https://www.federalpay.org/employees/occupations/chaplain/2017

 

[Shrink726]

That (bolded above) is nonsense which would make having publicly funded chaplains unconstitutional.

https://www.federalpay.org/employees/occupations/chaplain/2017

Bingo! As it well should be.

Pagan, bronze aged rituals should have no place in a 21st century modern society.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, it is well established that public schools and their employees are the government.

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Josie]

Correct!

They can engage in their primitive rituals at home, in churches, synagogues and mosques but not in publicly funded institutions.

You can't tell students that they can't pray when they're on school property. You also can't tell a teacher that he/she can't pray alone or with other staff members. We had a prayer one time at a very stressful staff meeting.

 

[Mycroft]

But they shouldn't be able to on taxpayer funded property.

If these pinhead imbeciles want to worship their sky fairies off school property that's fine, but not on something that I'm helping to pay for.

Wait. Does that mean that when I'm out in a national forest and, if I come face to face with a mountain lion, I can't suddenly get religion and pray to some god while I'm shitting my pants?

LOL!!

 

[Shrink726]

You can't tell students that they can't pray when they're on school property.

Like I said, no one can stop them from engaging in this nonsense privately and in silence, but if they're doing this vocally and/or in an organized fashion, I believe the school district has a right (and a responsibility) to tell them to take it off school grounds.

 

[Josie]

Like I said, no one can stop them from engaging in this nonsense privately and in silence, but if they're doing this vocally and/or in an organized fashion, I believe the school district has a right (and a responsibility) to tell them to take it off school grounds.

Well, you're wrong. They don't have to do it silently or in private.

 

[Shrink726]

Well, you're wrong. They don't have to do it silently or in private.

Yup. We live in a backward society that allows for this crap. As a practical matter, you're correct. But it shouldn't be.

 

[Josie]

Yup. We live in a backward society that allows for this crap. As a practical matter, you're correct. But it shouldn't be.

Why? What is wrong with a group of teachers having a huddle before the day starts and saying a prayer?

 

[Atreus21]

What this means in practice is that only the approved religion, secularism, is permitted in public schools.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes, it is well established that public schools and their employees are the government.

Is it “well established” that the coach was instructed by the government to pray or lead others in some specific prayer (aka to establish a religion)? If not, then wasn’t he simply engaged in the free exercise of his religion - which is his constitutional right?

In this case, the coach claims that he was praying after his duties as a coach (for that school) were completed (he was then ‘off the clock’). What the school did was to assert that there no right to free exercise of religion on public property under their control (while no school activity was in progress). I doubt that the SCOTUS will agree.

 

[Shrink726]

Why? What is wrong with a group of teachers having a huddle before the day starts and saying a prayer?

Because it effectively establishes one acceptable religion. What should Jews, Muslims and atheists do while this is going on. It's effectively religious bullying. Duh.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Because it effectively establishes one acceptable religion. What should Jews, Muslims and atheists do while this is going on. It's effectively religious bullying. Duh.

What makes you think that anyone is being compelled by the state to participate?

The 1A does more than simply prevent government establishment of (a specific) religion - it also protects the free exercise of religion and the right of the people to peaceably assemble.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[Josie]

Because it effectively establishes one acceptable religion. What should Jews, Muslims and atheists do while this is going on. It's effectively religious bullying. Duh.

That makes no sense. First, the teachers are choosing to be part of the prayer circle. Second, who said it was only one religion allowed?