Does anyone here work?

Stace · Feb 27, 2007

talloulou said:
Just to defend 1069 a little shock: ) the mommy wars can get quite biatchy as any suggestion that one mom stays home so she can "raise her kids herself" automatically insinuates that working moms have kids being raised by others. Which, to be fair, isn't all together true and I can see how that would make someone extremely defensive. If I had to work I would be hurt by any suggestions that my kids were being raised by someone else as that's no more true than the idea that my kids are being raised by the public school system. They are in fact with teachers from 9-3 but I would balk at any suggestion that the teachers were in effect raising them more than I am. But the truth of the matter is "school" does play a large role in my kids life just not as large a role as I do.

So I can sorta see 1069's rabid defense though it was way over the top but that's her way. She can spin anything out of control. I've actually spilled stuff on my computer after reading some of her farther out there posts.

1069 use to make me crazy but now I get a kick out of her. She hasn't quite gotten to the point where I'd say I greatly respect or admire her opposing views but she does make me giggle and that's something.

First of all, thanks to you, jallman, and Felicity for jumping to my defense. Y'all rock.

Secondly, I certainly wasn't intending to get anyone's panties in a bunch. Nor was I trying to imply that working mothers' children are literally being raised by others. That's just the way I and my husband feel about it.....we didn't have a kid just to have someone else take care of his every need for 8+ hours a day! I've never wanted to do that, because above all, I've always wanted to be a mom. I'm not knocking folks that put their kids in daycare...it can be a great environment, and some moms NEED to have a job besides being Mom...and that's totally cool! You and I know that in either scenario, Mom and Dad have the most influence over their kid's life....well, usually anyway. But right now, during Noah's formative years, we felt it was important for one of us to be here for him at all times. I don't want to miss my baby saying his first word or taking his first step, or any of those other milestones.

1069, I honestly cannot figure out how in the hell you construe me staying home with my son into me having low self esteem...and I'm obviously not the only one. We'd all love to be enlightened.

Stace · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
She said she couldn't go back to work because she couldn't afford childcare.
Is that right? Is it right for women not to be able to work, because childcare is unaffordable?
Obvious answer, of course not. Change it.
Every other country in the industrialized world has government subsidized childcare, after all.
The answer that Stace arrives at instead: simply accept it, and then console oneself by insisting that women who work outside their homes are "having someone else raise their child".
So, women who don't work outside the home, yet spend all day piddling around on internet debate forums?
Who's raising their children, I wonder?
Because everybody knows that if you don't have your head lodged up your child's arse 24/7, then your child isn't being "raised" properly, right? :roll:

Um. WRONG.

I didn't work even before I got PREGNANT. That was a choice we made before the baby was even thought of. We always knew that as long as my husband's income could keep the bills paid, I'd be staying home with the kids. That's what we wanted.

And uh, FYI, I'm hardly on here ALL day. I pop in and out, usually while I'm feeding Noah (since I'm breastfeeding, I'm rather limited to what I can do while he's nursing....so I sit here and browse the 'net) or while he's napping and I haven't got anything else that needs my attention. And of course, there's the times that his daddy is playing with him....I have my little man all to myself all morning, so it's only fair that his daddy gets some one on one time with him, too.

But you know what? I don't really need to continue to defend myself to you, anyway. You're the one that chose to get offended by what I said, for whatever weird reason. I'm choosing to see your attacks as a means to justify your own actions....perhaps trying to make me feel guilty somehow because you yourself feel guilty? Whatever your reasoning may be, it's still pretty low, not to mention just outright rude, and I'm not going to dignify it with any further responses. I have better things to do with my time....like play with my son. :2wave:

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

Stace said:
Um. WRONG.

I have better things to do with my time....like play with my son. :2wave:

Yeah, I'll bet. Or- hehe- post on another thread. :roll:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/499746-post11.html

dragonslayer · Feb 27, 2007

How else does one make it in our society than to work? I am retired, and I graduated from HS in 1957, used some savings that I had earned working part timeand spent 6 months in Europe, worked from 1958 until 2003. During this time I was drafted into the Army, I could easily have gotten deferred from the draft, but I thought the experience would be good for me and I earned two degrees. I am 68 years old and I like being active. I like writing in here, and in other places.

I have always been a middle of the road conservative, until the Government was taken over by Bush and his band of anti americans. Even as a Republican, I never was a people hater. That seems to be one of the prerequisite for Neo Conservatives. I use to be active in local politics as a Republican and I am now active in politics as a Democrat.

Down with the Bush Corporate Dictatorship!!!!!!!

I truly enjoy, baiting and causing grief to those who claim to be Neo conservatives.

jallman · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
Yeah, I'll bet. Or- hehe- post on another thread. :roll:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/499746-post11.html

Why are you so angry? Perhaps daddy didn't hug and play with you enough? Perhaps daddy wanted you to be his little stripper? I dunno, but you got some real issues with women who enjoy taking more traditional roles. If you really are all about choice and freedom, you certainly have to respect the fact that some women make tradition their choice...

This is kind of sad because I agree with you on so much...it just shocks me to see such irrational anger and bitterness oozing from every post directed at Stace.

talloulou · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
Yeah, I'll bet. Or- hehe- post on another thread. :roll:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/499746-post11.html

You're beyond defensible. I don't even know why I bothered. I thought I'd try to see it from your perspective but now I think you just poke to poke and it's not anything deeper than that. At least when I say mean things it's cause I'm an emotional creature vs. just being a meanie head unless it's my time of the month of course and then I just apologize later to whoever was in the path.

Stace · Feb 27, 2007

jallman said:
Why are you so angry? Perhaps daddy didn't hug and play with you enough? Perhaps daddy wanted you to be his little stripper? I dunno, but you got some real issues with women who enjoy taking more traditional roles. If you really are all about choice and freedom, you certainly have to respect the fact that some women make tradition their choice...

This is kind of sad because I agree with you on so much...it just shocks me to see such irrational anger and bitterness oozing from every post directed at Stace.

Thanks, Joey. She's harboring some sort of grudge against me still, it seems. Oh well, life goes on. I'm certainly not going to sit in the corner and cry about it.

Jerry · Feb 27, 2007

talloulou said:
Oh yeah right as opposed to rot like this, which by the way came before Stace's beauuuuutiful post:

:rofl From your less than eloquent post where you went on to suggest I spend my days in my underwear, undisciplined, yadda yadda yadda.

jallman said:
WHAT? Where in any of that did you see anything about her feeling crappy for herself? Sometimes I think your feminism is just some kind of latent anger or something...you lash out at the most inappropriate times and people....:roll:

Felicity said:
Out of what she said, where the HELL did you get that she feels "crappy" about herself???

You are so deep in denial about your own shortcomings you think you have to attack anyone who values traditional activities. Stace complimented BOTH types of moms and you go ape-**** on her--DEMEANING motherhood in the process. Lord woman--see someone about the self-esteem issues you ar OBVIOUSLY compensating for.

jallman said:
Why are you so angry? Perhaps daddy didn't hug and play with you enough? Perhaps daddy wanted you to be his little stripper? I dunno, but you got some real issues with women who enjoy taking more traditional roles. If you really are all about choice and freedom, you certainly have to respect the fact that some women make tradition their choice...

This is kind of sad because I agree with you on so much...it just shocks me to see such irrational anger and bitterness oozing from every post directed at Stace.

Apperantly I'm late to the party...but yeah, what thay said :mrgreen:

talloulou · Feb 27, 2007

dragonslayer said:
How else does one make it in our society than to work? I am retired, and I graduated from HS in 1957, used some savings that I had earned working part timeand spent 6 months in Europe, worked from 1958 until 2003. During this time I was drafted into the Army, I could easily have gotten deferred from the draft, but I thought the experience would be good for me and I earned two degrees. I am 68 years old and I like being active. I like writing in here, and in other places.

I have always been a middle of the road conservative, until the Government was taken over by Bush and his band of anti americans. Even as a Republican, I never was a people hater. That seems to be one of the prerequisite for Neo Conservatives. I use to be active in local politics as a Republican and I am now active in politics as a Democrat.

Down with the Bush Corporate Dictatorship!!!!!!!

I truly enjoy, baiting and causing grief to those who claim to be Neo conservatives.

Is that what 1069 is doing in your opinion? Just baiting neo conservatives cause last time I checked Stace was the liberal princess.

talloulou · Feb 27, 2007

Oh nevermind she's the milk factory now. :rofl But she use to be the liberal princess or liberal something if I'm remembering right.

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

talloulou said:
Is that what 1069 is doing in your opinion? Just baiting neo conservatives cause last time I checked Stace was the liberal princess.

I'm pretty sure that guy was merely responding to the OP, and was caught unawares in the crossfire of the Mommy Wars... I don't even know who the hell he is, and he never mentioned me or referenced my post in any way.

jallman · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
I'm pretty sure that guy was merely responding to the OP, and was caught unawares in the crossfire of the Mommy Wars... I don't even know who the hell he is, and he never mentioned me or referenced my post in any way.

HAHA!!! Mommy Wars...that's kinda funny.

*SCHHHHHH CHAAAA SCHHHHHHHHH* Luke, I am your Mommy

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

jallman said:
HAHA!!! Mommy Wars...that's kinda funny.

*SCHHHHHH CHAAAA SCHHHHHHHHH* Luke, I am your Mommy

Um... that's what this SAHM versus Working Mom debate is called.
Ever pick up a copy of 'Parent's'?

jallman · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
Um... that's what this SAHM versus Working Mom debate is called.
Ever pick up a copy of 'Parent's'?

Ever pick up a copy of "It's not my fault you burnt yourself when you burnt your bra"

or how about a copy of "Humor is a good thing, try it on some time"

or even a copy of "Mean chicks don't get dates on Friday night...."

Just a few suggestions... :2wave:

talloulou · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
Um... that's what this SAHM versus Working Mom debate is called.
Ever pick up a copy of 'Parent's'?

It really is a shame the way moms tear each other up. I think staying home with my kids is best for us but I'm also all for affordable good daycare since many can't stay home even if they wanted to. And staying home can be dull and isolating especially when the kids are young but that doesn't mean it isn't also worthwhile or fulfiilling at the same time. If I said there weren't times when I wanted to pull my hair out of my head I'd by lying. But I also worked for years too and know that can be equally fun and likewise at times a major pain in the a$$.

Stace · Feb 27, 2007

talloulou said:
It really is a shame the way moms tear each other up. I think staying home with my kids is best for us but I'm also all for affordable good daycare since many can't stay home even if they wanted to. And staying home can be dull and isolating especially when the kids are young but that doesn't mean it isn't also worthwhile or fulfiilling at the same time. If I said there weren't times when I wanted to pull my hair out of my head I'd by lying. But I also worked for years too and know that can be equally fun and likewise at times a major pain in the a$$.

:yt

Yup, that about covers it.

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

Yup, that about covers it.

I've already written... oh, fifty-thousand words or more on the subject, in my brief time on this forum; the bulk of it contained on three threads:

link

link

link

My beliefs on the issue are the result of years- nearly two decades- of experience as a woman and a mother, as well as untold years of research; needless to say, they are unswayable.
People don't make statements like, "we both feel very strongly about being here for our son, versus essentially having someone else raise him" unless they have very serious personal issues... and we all, whether or not we choose to admit it, know that perfectly well.

DeeJayH · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
And see, comments like that are why moms with real jobs both ridicule and pity people like you.
If you truly feel that crappy about yourself, do something to change your life, instead of making it everybody else's problem. :roll:

there is no higher calling, no more important job than a stay at home home mom

the rest of you are nothing but part time, when it is convenient, losers who should not have had offspring because the timing was inconveninent
the reason the world is currently so ****ed up, is because so few women are stay at home moms
Stay at home moms are the most crucial, most important, most critical parts of sociiety
any body else is worthless useless scum

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

DeeJayH said:
there is no higher calling, no more important job than a stay at home home mom

the rest of you are nothing but part time, when it is convenient, losers who should not have had offspring because the timing was inconveninent
the reason the world is currently so ****ed up, is because so few women are stay at home moms
Stay at home moms are the most crucial, most important, most critical parts of sociiety
any body else is worthless useless scum

Yee-haw, I'm sure the "traditional gender role" contingent is just utterly thrilled to have you aboard, Deejay; as always, you just lend soooo much credibility to the cause (whatever "the cause" happens to be).

But I'm glad you're here.

Stace · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
I've already written... oh, fifty-thousand words or more on the subject, in my brief time on this forum; the bulk of it contained on three threads:

link

link

link

My beliefs on the issue are the result of years- nearly two decades- of experience as a woman and a mother, as well as untold years of research; needless to say, they are unswayable.
People don't make statements like, "we both feel very strongly about being here for our son, versus essentially having someone else raise him" unless they have very serious personal issues... and we all, whether or not we choose to admit it, know that perfectly well.

:roll: The only "personal issue" I have is that I had a kid to raise him myself, not to stuff him in a daycare all day. If that works for some people, that's great, but that's NOT what works for MY family. I'm obviously not the only one here that feels that way.

But please, do continue telling me all about my personal issues, because you obviously know more about me than I do. :doh

DeeJayH · Feb 27, 2007

1069 said:
Yee-haw, I'm sure the "traditional gender role" contingent is just utterly thrilled to have you aboard, Deejay; as always, you just lend soooo much credibility to the cause (whatever "the cause" happens to be).

But I'm glad you're here.

why dont you post some links or do a study that shows how diferently children turn out when they are pimped out to employes vs. being rasied by their acutal parents

i have yet to see any situation taht proves taht children are more likely to be ****ed up when raised by their parents than any other group

STAY AT HOME MOMS ARE THE STAPLE OF SOCIETY
THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB
THEY ARE WHAT WILL RESULT IN THE DOWNFALL OF THIS NATION OR ITS SUCCESS

DeeJayH · Feb 27, 2007

Stace said:
:roll: The only "personal issue" I have is that I had a kid to raise him myself, not to stuff him in a daycare all day. If that works for some people, that's great, but that's NOT what works for MY family. I'm obviously not the only one here that feels that way.

But please, do continue telling me all about my personal issues, because you obviously know more about me than I do. :doh

there is a reason the first generation builds a business
the second generation takes advantage of the business
but the third generation rides that business into the ground
this is the most likely scenario of a successful family business
and it all has to do with the core values intilled by the stay at home mom

WITHOUT THE STAY AT HOME MOM
THIS COUNTRY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE
LIKE EVERY EMPIRE BEFORE IT

PASSING OFF CHILD REARING TO EMPLOYEES IS THE SUREST WAY TO ENSURE THE FAILURE OF A COUNTRY/SOCIETY

1069 · Feb 27, 2007

DeeJayH said:
why dont you post some links or do a study that shows how diferently children turn out when they are pimped out to employes vs. being rasied by their acutal parents

i have yet to see any situation taht proves taht children are more likely to be ****ed up when raised by their parents than any other group

STAY AT HOME MOMS ARE THE STAPLE OF SOCIETY
THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB
THEY ARE WHAT WILL RESULT IN THE DOWNFALL OF THIS NATION OR ITS SUCCESS

:lamo :sword: :funny

Tell us another one? Please? :mrgreen:

Hatuey · Feb 27, 2007

DeeJayH said:
why dont you post some links or do a study that shows how diferently children turn out when they are pimped out to employes vs. being rasied by their acutal parents

i have yet to see any situation taht proves taht children are more likely to be ****ed up when raised by their parents than any other group

STAY AT HOME MOMS ARE THE STAPLE OF SOCIETY
THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB
THEY ARE WHAT WILL RESULT IN THE DOWNFALL OF THIS NATION OR ITS SUCCESS

Have you seen any of the episodes for Supernanny?

Not every woman can be a stay at home mother....bills have to be sometimes dont they?...I dont know how taking kids to a soccer games pays for bills....and I dont judge stay at home moms either however it all depends on the person...some have the possibility and financial stability to stay home...others dont. It's really that simple.

Southern Belle · Feb 27, 2007

Well, 1069's comment to Stace wasn't very nice... And I do agree that children do better with their moms (or even grandparents at least) than in daycare. That's just how it is. It's up to mothers/Gaurdians to teach their children ethics and how to behave and the difference between right and wrong.

I even have personal experiance. I was raised in a traditional nuclear family, where my mom stayed home and my morals and beliefs are strong. I love my two cousins to death, but they were shuffled around and stayed in daycare. One has a new baby without a husband and the other one, he has a hard time staying out of jail.

*waits to be called a traitor to her gender by 1069*

Does anyone here work?