Do you support the actions of Kim Davis and think they were right?

[AGENT J]

Just a heads up, the preacher in your one picture is actually saying segregation is unamerican, not integration.

You are 100% correct! I just searched for "desegregation protesters" and saved some pics. I missed that his sign only said segregation. Good job catching my mistake! Thanks

 

[Cephus]

Well that's the interesting dilemma, and one way of a locality to circumvent the 14th Amendment -- not impeaching an elected office holder who should be impeached and discharged. Of course as you pointed out Cephus, impeachment is always political in one sense or another.

Whether the judiciary's attempt to resolve the issue will be held on appeal or not is yet to be seen. But it should be interesting as it unfolds.

It seems amazing and sad to me that there is so much repudiation of the US Constitution.

The Far Right repudiates the 1st Amendment commonly and the 14th as well in this case.

The Far Left repudiates the 2nd Amendment regularly on the other hand.

I think Federal judges often take whatever steps they think are needed, as has the SCOTUS itself recently.

Lately they both seem to have had to.

Nobody gets to circumvent the Constitution, it is the law of the land nationally whether people like it or not. People also can't decide that they'd really like to have slaves and ignore the Constitution, or that they really don't want women to vote and ignore the Constitution. That's not how the United States operates, but it seems that a lot of Christian bigots seem that they get to ignore any law that doesn't appeal to them because of religious freedom.

Kim Davis is finding out that reality doesn't work that way. When will the rest of these religious bigots rent a clue?

 

[chromium]

I see she's now asking the same governor she tried to sue for ordering her to do her job...to now pardon her

LOL she's going to be waiting a while

she's wrong in every way conceivable, and she deserves much worse - her own marriage (all 3 of them!) annulled, for starters. Seriously if i were trying to pick a spokesperson for a cause, she would be about the last i'd ever approach

I mean even westboro agrees with me: Gay-Hating Westboro Church Protests Ky. Clerk Who Denied Same-Sex Marriages - NBC News

"WBC undertook a P.R. campaign over the weekend, attacking the thrice-divorced (and legally remarried) Kim Davis in a string of Tweets and YouTube videos as an "oath breaker" and a "lawbreaker" ......

"As if to clarify how it could so viciously attack someone who's fighting for its own principles, the group said, "Proud adulterers who divorce/remarry and refuse to call it a sin are no more a WBC member than a proud fag."

Here i was just the other day thinking too that she'll do more much damage to the right wing, by association, than anyone since fred phelps was a household name

 

[Riveroaks]

Nobody gets to circumvent the Constitution, it is the law of the land nationally whether people like it or not. People also can't decide that they'd really like to have slaves and ignore the Constitution, or that they really don't want women to vote and ignore the Constitution. That's not how the United States operates, but it seems that a lot of Christian bigots seem that they get to ignore any law that doesn't appeal to them because of religious freedom.

Kim Davis is finding out that reality doesn't work that way. When will the rest of these religious bigots rent a clue?

California circumvents it all the time, are you kidding me?

 

[Riveroaks]

Nobody gets to circumvent the Constitution, it is the law of the land nationally whether people like it or not. People also can't decide that they'd really like to have slaves and ignore the Constitution, or that they really don't want women to vote and ignore the Constitution. That's not how the United States operates, but it seems that a lot of Christian bigots seem that they get to ignore any law that doesn't appeal to them because of religious freedom.

Kim Davis is finding out that reality doesn't work that way. When will the rest of these religious bigots rent a clue?

Davis has proved to be a religious fanatic who is comfortable with ignoring both the 1st and the 14th Amendments.

It has yet to be seen if she will learn anything from this whole process.

With her national face recognition now, she is going to have a really hard time finding a job -- same issue as Darrin Wilson the Mo. cop.

Too much face time is not a good thing.

 

[Sherman123]

I'm proud at the near unanimity of the poll response here, a very principled, very American reaction. Good job.

 

[Cephus]

California circumvents it all the time, are you kidding me?

Alright, nobody is supposed to circumvent it. Better?

 

[Riveroaks]

As a liberal I am only asking that we all share the same rights and the same restrictions on those rights.

The problem with both extremes of view is that they both interpret the same plain English completely differently.

 

[Cephus]

Davis has proved to be a religious fanatic who is comfortable with ignoring both the 1st and the 14th Amendments.

It has yet to be seen if she will learn anything from this whole process.

With her national face recognition now, she is going to have a really hard time finding a job -- same issue as Darrin Wilson the Mo. cop.

Too much face time is not a good thing.

I really don't care if she does or not, she can sit in jail forever for all I care, or until she either steps down or is removed from office. Regardless, the law is being upheld now, licenses are being issued and she's ultimately accomplished nothing but looking like an idiot.

 

[Peter King]

Personally I think people should not be in jail for such minor offenses, send her home without pay for refusal to do her job if at all possible, give her house arrest. That will be cheaper for the community and this way she is not going to be a martyr for her beliefs but she will be an unpaid discriminator sitting on her own sofa.

 

[Paperview]

Personally I think people should not be in jail for such minor offenses, send her home without pay for refusal to do her job if at all possible, give her house arrest. That will be cheaper for the community and this way she is not going to be a martyr for her beliefs but she will be an unpaid discriminator sitting on her own sofa.

Not an option.

 

[roguenuke]

Personally I think people should not be in jail for such minor offenses, send her home without pay for refusal to do her job if at all possible, give her house arrest. That will be cheaper for the community and this way she is not going to be a martyr for her beliefs but she will be an unpaid discriminator sitting on her own sofa.

The judge does not have that type of authority. I don't understand why people don't understand this. The judge has a very limited number of options in this matter. Pretty much it is fines and/or jail time if he is trying to get her to do her job. Fines won't really accomplish much for many reasons, but putting her in jail not only cannot be something others take on for her, but it also could be considered the loop hole to allow for licenses to be issued without her interfering and in a way that makes her absent (almost certainly) giving the alternate an actual opportunity to approve of the license issuing.

 

[gdgyva]

I agree with this. I have nothing against Ms. Davis as a person, but the Rowan County Clerks Office should not be able to discriminate against it's citizens.




Disagree on this part though.

Not thing had to be turned over to the governors office since Kentucky Revised Statute 402.240 already what happens when the County Clerk is absent. Marriage licenses are then issued under the authority of the County Judge/Executive (in this case IIRC a Judge Belvins).

There is/was no need for action by the governor.



>>>>

in some ways i agree

in others i dont

if Judge Blevins was the next authority, then something needed to be prepared to change the authorization from ms davis to him

Even if it is just a council memo, there needs to be something in writing outlining the date ms davis is no longer in authority, and placing the judge in her place

I dont know of anything that has happened like that....do you?

Right now ms davis is STILL the clerk of the county....she is still the convening authority....yes, even behind bars.

Something needs to be done to relieve her of that authority.....

I dont know if that council has the power.....i know the governor does

That is why i wrote what i wrote

 

[Deuce]

Personally I think people should not be in jail for such minor offenses, send her home without pay for refusal to do her job if at all possible, give her house arrest. That will be cheaper for the community and this way she is not going to be a martyr for her beliefs but she will be an unpaid discriminator sitting on her own sofa.

The judge believed that any fines levied would just be paid by other people via donations, and therefore this would not actually be punishment. The sole focus of contempt of court is to achieve compliance.

 

[Athrawan]

It doesn't work that way. They are still Christians, they still believe the very base tenet of Christianity, which is to follow the words of Jesus to gain Gods blessing for a positive afterlife.

I disagree. Jesus said that no everyone who calls Him "Lord" will enter the Kingdom, but those who do the will of the Father (Matt 7:21). James tells us that faith without works is dead (James 2:17). In Gal 5 19-21, hatred is identified as one of the works of the flesh, whose practitioners will not enter the Kingdom. We're told that even demons believe God and tremble. Belief alone is not sufficient, it must be accompanied by works that bring forth fruits meet for repentance (Matt 3:8).

 

[WorldWatcher]

in some ways i agree

in others i dont

if Judge Blevins was the next authority, then something needed to be prepared to change the authorization from ms davis to him

Even if it is just a council memo, there needs to be something in writing outlining the date ms davis is no longer in authority, and placing the judge in her place

I dont know of anything that has happened like that....do you?

There is no such requirement in Kentucky law.

Right now ms davis is STILL the clerk of the county....she is still the convening authority....yes, even behind bars.

Right now she is still the County Clerk, however she is absent from her job.

Something needs to be done to relieve her of that authority.....

No it doesn't. She is absent from her job, the law already covers that.

I dont know if that council has the power...

They don't.

..i know the governor does

No he doesn't. The Legislature is the only one with the power to remove Ms. Davis.



>>>>

 

[Visbek]

Do you support the actions of Kim davis and think they were right?

Nope.

I do think she can request a reasonable accommodation, e.g. allowing someone else in the office to sign off on marriage certificates to which she objects on a religious basis. It's still a bit insulting and humiliating, and unpleasant for everyone, but as long as everyone is following the law and the office is providing the service, everyone's civil rights are maintained.

The problem is that Ms Davis won't be satisfied with that option. She's not merely trying to avoid personally processing the paperwork, she is trying to prevent her entire office from following the law, even trying to insist from a jail cell that her office's processing of the marriage certificates is invalid. (It seems unlikely, that the office has a legal requirement to shut down, and refuse to process any and all paperwork, because the clerk is indisposed.) Her resistance is compounded by her lawyers, who are using her case and martyrdom to try and strike down Obergefell. From what I can gather, the lawyers are not making any real legal case, they're just blasting the SCOTUS decision in their filings.

I don't think this indicates a weaker commitment to religion on her part, rather it indicates that her intransigence is the point. She's not interested in an accommodation or a compromise. She just wants her way, and doesn't want gay people to get married at all.

 

[Peter King]

Not an option.

Sadly not.

 

[The Mark]

No.

She is wrong, legally.

Should have either resigned from office or issued the licenses.

 

[Peter King]

The judge does not have that type of authority. I don't understand why people don't understand this. The judge has a very limited number of options in this matter. Pretty much it is fines and/or jail time if he is trying to get her to do her job. Fines won't really accomplish much for many reasons, but putting her in jail not only cannot be something others take on for her, but it also could be considered the loop hole to allow for licenses to be issued without her interfering and in a way that makes her absent (almost certainly) giving the alternate an actual opportunity to approve of the license issuing.

I know it is not possible, but I am voicing an opinion that I think that for things like this, being locked up does not seem the best option. It is much better to either have fewer people in jail or keep people in jail who are a threat and need to be in jail.

That means people are being doubled up in jail cells because people are in there who do not necessarily need to be in there.

 

[Peter King]

The judge believed that any fines levied would just be paid by other people via donations, and therefore this would not actually be punishment. The sole focus of contempt of court is to achieve compliance.

Yes, but this way she is gaining "martyr" status, something she does not deserve IMHO.

At Foxnews people even compared what she did to Martin Luther King, and where MLK did this to free his people, she does it because she wants to deny some people.

 

[Cephus]

Yes, but this way she is gaining "martyr" status, something she does not deserve IMHO.

At Foxnews people even compared what she did to Martin Luther King, and where MLK did this to free his people, she does it because she wants to deny some people.

Who cares? All that matters is that they issue the licenses that people are legally allowed to get. I don't care if the religious morons consider her the second coming of Jesus F'ing Christ.

 

[Quag]

Yes, I've already acknowledged that some Christian denominations and individuals change their beliefs based on how society changes. You don't seem to be understanding that what God says trumps what humans say. You see?

No you dont seem to understand you are basing it on what YOU belive God says.
That is my entire point.
You dont know what God says you only beleive that you do.
Others beleive differently.

 

[Quag]

Okay ... tell me where I'm wrong here.

No, I'm not at all. Anyone who knows Biblical history can tell you. The Old Testament covenant was between Jehovah God and the Jewish people. All of those laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy were for the JEWISH people. Jesus Christ fulfilled that covenant and we now live under grace.

It's pretty fundamental Bible stuff. If you haven't studied the Bible, I can see where it would be confusing to you.

Well since you seem to beleive that God is anti-homosexual and that pretty much comes from the old testament then we can throw that out as well.

 

[Josie]

No you dont seem to understand you are basing it on what YOU belive God says.
That is my entire point.
You dont know what God says you only beleive that you do.
Others beleive differently.

We can know what God says because we have the God-inspired book to read. Again, it doesn't matter what humans think or feel -- it matters what God says.