Do you support marriage for gay and transgender people?

[Peter King]

Why does gay and transgender marriage need my support?

​

Well maybe because they deserve to have the protection that the married state gives people, it validates their relationship just like it does with straight couples and for some reason the religious right still claims it will destroy society and the institution of marriage as a whole.

 

[grip]

Well maybe because they deserve to have the protection that the married state gives people, it validates their relationship just like it does with straight couples and for some reason the religious right still claims it will destroy society and the institution of marriage as a whole.

I don't actively support straight or gay marriage. I simply don't care what others do in their personal relationships.

 

[Peter King]

On April the 1st this year gay weddings were legalized in the Netherlands. Since that day 28,000 gay marriages have been officiated over, of those 28,000 gay or lesbian couples about 20,000 are still married and living in the Netherlands. 4,500 couples have divorced, the rest have either moved to another country or one or both of the couple have died.

The Netherlands does not have a gay marriage law, it just as a marriage law that is open for all people (who are legally allowed to marry). The Netherlands chose not to create a new law for gays/lesbians, they just amended the marriage law to include both gay/lesbian and straight couples.

The rules are exactly like those for straight marriages, including if the marriage is ended through divorce.

About 16% of all marriages in the Netherlands end in divorce in the first 10 years of the marriage, of the gay men the divorce rate is 14% and among women the divorce rate is 26%.

And guess what, it has not destroyed our society, it has not lead to the end of marriage as a whole.

In the Protestant church (some, not all and every church is free to make that decision for themselves) gay/lesbians couples can also have a religious ceremony. Except this ceremony has no legal meaning just like any other religious ceremony.

In Dutch law the only recognized marriage is the legal/civil marriage.

 

[roguenuke]

Sex, hair, skin and eye color are determined by genetics. You can probably find that gay men on average have a lower testosterone level than heterosexual men. An influence in that you will also find individual gay men with elevated levels of testosterone and some heterosexual men with very low testosterone. Because it is only an influence, not a determiner of sexuality.

Sex can be determined by things other than genetics. AIS proves this. Being insensitive to androgens will mean that your physical sex does not seem to match your DNA.

But we aren't discussing a physical characteristic, as you described in all those things, but rather a matter of personality. Such as, if one of your parents are a good leader or an asshole, you are more likely to be those things. If they are competitive or sensitive or intelligent, you too are more likely to be those things. That doesn't mean that a single genetic marker gives you those personality traits, only that you have a higher chance of having those personality traits. Just like when it comes to sexuality.

Nature vs nurture deals with personality, not physical characteristics.

 

[AGENT J]

The Netherlands does not have a gay marriage law, it just as a marriage law that is open for all people (who are legally allowed to marry). The Netherlands chose not to create a new law for gays/lesbians, they just amended the marriage law to include both gay/lesbian and straight couples.
The rules are exactly like those for straight marriages, including if the marriage is ended through divorce.

its the same in the states, the new laws and bigger government that people tried to create were laws discriminating based on sexual orientation, our supreme court ruled against these and removed them and now the right to marriage is simply protected based on equal/civil rights.

 

[Peter King]

its the same in the states, the new laws and bigger government that people tried to create were laws discriminating based on sexual orientation, our supreme court ruled against these and removed them and now the right to marriage is simply protected based on equal/civil rights.

It is just sad that the Supreme court needed to intervene rather than the politicians just making that decision .

 

[AGENT J]

It is just sad that the Supreme court needed to intervene rather than the politicians just making that decision .

I agree 100%

but the sweet irony of it is . . . .


the hateful scared bigots making those laws are EXACTLY what helped equal rights be protected. Without those morons making discriminatory laws to be challenged maybe it takes LONGER for equality to win and rights to be protected.

Its sad that it took that long, I wish bigoty didn't exist so much among our leaders and we should have been way ahead of that social issue but it just wasn't the case.

 

[Peter King]

I agree 100%

but the sweet irony of it is . . . .


the hateful scared bigots making those laws are EXACTLY what helped equal rights be protected. Without those morons making discriminatory laws to be challenged maybe it takes LONGER for equality to win and rights to be protected.

Its sad that it took that long, I wish bigoty didn't exist so much among our leaders and we should have been way ahead of that social issue but it just wasn't the case.

Yup, some bigoted people in the US still have huge issues with respecting people's personal freedoms. Their only approved personal freedoms are religious ones and gun rights freedoms. When it comes to body integrity or people's personal choices that are not in line with their religious views they are as backward and hateful as people in previous centuries rather than the 21st century.

 

[AGENT J]

Yup, some bigoted people in the US still have huge issues with respecting people's personal freedoms. Their only approved personal freedoms are religious ones and gun rights freedoms. When it comes to body integrity or people's personal choices that are not in line with their religious views they are as backward and hateful as people in previous centuries rather than the 21st century.

its actually very sad that these people exist in a country that is supposed to be the opposite of that. How hateful, hypocritical and bigoted does a person have to be to want to deny other rights and freedoms.

Its a weird thing that Ill NEVER understand, thank god im not that vile of a human being.

 

[Peter King]

its actually very sad that these people exist in a country that is supposed to be the opposite of that. How hateful, hypocritical and bigoted does a person have to be to want to deny other rights and freedoms.

Its a weird thing that Ill NEVER understand, thank god im not that vile of a human being.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has become:

Life but only if it is the way we the religious right wants it
Liberty but only if it does not violate our religious views
Pursuit of happiness, only if it does not challenge our religious views and doctrines

Because if it were up to the religious bigots gay sex would still be illegal, pot would be illegal and abortion would be punished by life in jail or death.

 

[AGENT J]

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has become:

Life but only if it is the way we the religious right wants it
Liberty but only if it does not violate our religious views
Pursuit of happiness, only if it does not challenge our religious views and doctrines

Because if it were up to the religious bigots gay sex would still be illegal, pot would be illegal and abortion would be punished by life in jail or death.

Well just to be fair, no doubt a lot of the bigoted and anti rights people that try to hide their vile ways with religion and it completely fails . . .

but there are millions of religious people that fully support equal rights also

and thankfully America is not based on their bat shit insane versions of theocracy

 

[Waddy]

Why sure, let them experience losing half their stuff. Marriage ain't no big deal. Not like it once was. But don't force religious people get involved. They like to stay away from that shit.

 

[Peter King]

Well just to be fair, no doubt a lot of the bigoted and anti rights people that try to hide their vile ways with religion and it completely fails . . .

but there are millions of religious people that fully support equal rights also

and thankfully America is not based on their bat shit insane versions of theocracy

Yes, there are millions of liberal minded or libertarian religious people (and some republican religious people who do respect the principles of the US when it comes to liberty.

 

[dixon01767]

I don't actively support straight or gay marriage. I simply don't care what others do in their personal relationships.

They sooooo desperately need your approval to feel better about their homosexuality

 

[dixon01767]

Well just to be fair, no doubt a lot of the bigoted and anti rights people that try to hide their vile ways with religion and it completely fails . . .

but there are millions of religious people that fully support equal rights also

and thankfully America is not based on their bat shit insane versions of theocracy

Equal rights would involve eliminating the purposeful discrimination between the married and unmarried

 

[AGENT J]

Equal rights would involve eliminating the purposeful discrimination between the married and unmarried

BWHAHAHAHAHAH thats right just ignore the huge ass woopin your failed claims too in post 1925

Anyway i see you are trying, and failing, to rehash another failed claim

to cry about equal rights based ou have to prove theres illegal discrimination, you haven't, can't, and won't cause its only your feelings but please please try . . .

or like usual, you could make a post based on honesty and integrity and just admit its you FEELINGS and nothing more .. lets see what you do!?

 

[AGENT J]

They sooooo desperately need your approval to feel better about their homosexuality

LMAO see this is a perfect example of a dishonest and bigoted view, thank you

VERY telling

 

[roguenuke]

Equal rights would involve eliminating the purposeful discrimination between the married and unmarried

No, it doesn't. That isn't how equal rights works.

 

[dixon01767]

BWHAHAHAHAHAH thats right just ignore the huge ass woopin your failed claims too in post 1925

Anyway i see you are trying, and failing, to rehash another failed claim

to cry about equal rights based ou have to prove theres illegal discrimination, you haven't, can't, and won't cause its only your feelings but please please try . . .

or like usual, you could make a post based on honesty and integrity and just admit its you FEELINGS and nothing more .. lets see what you do!?

Youre not "woopin" anything. "EQUAL" still means equal. Your hysterics wont change that fact.

 

[AGENT J]

Youre not "woopin" anything. "EQUAL" still means equal. Your hysterics wont change that fact.

Post 1925 factually proves otherwise lying about it wont change anything

and what further proves it, is that fact we are STILL waiting for you to make a factual case that its illegal discrimination and an equal rights issue based on rights and legality. Wanna see me kick the shit out of those false claims again? sure I can do it with one question/request . .


please post one fact that makes it illegal discrimination against the closely related based on legality and rights . . .we are waiting!

 

[grip]

They sooooo desperately need your approval to feel better about their homosexuality