Do you know or care how poor folks get by?

[opendebate]

That was my intent. Unfortunately we still have some Scrooges saying "Bah! Humbug! Let them hurry up and die and thus reduce the surplus population!"

They'll find out one day. Stuff has a way of coming around.

Sometimes I guess that's true (stuff coming around) most of the time I think they just get away with it.

 

[Grim17]

The Gentry family, btw, declines to take any form of government assistance. Too proud. They'd rather get barrels of river water to flush their toilets than take a penny from anyone not given freely.

The elder Poteats only take gov't assistance when they're truly desperate. Whenever Mr Poteat can work, they prefer to get by on their own if they can.


These are hard-working folks who could really benefit from a true hand-UP program, if only you could convince them to take it.

The values that those families embrace used to be the norm in the US, but not anymore. Today, most people see government assistance as a public piggy bank that they can crack open whenever the going gets tough, and won't hesitate for one second to go after their cut.

Based on my observations, only a very small percentage of families still have such high and admirable values as those families do, and I fear it's just a matter of time before such values disappear from American society all together. I don't live in the south but I used to years ago, and unfortunately they are one of the last regions in the country where most of the people still take pride in making their own way and see government handouts as a last resort of true desperation.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

When I was a kid we lived in the Ouachita Mountains in rural Arkansas. We were very poor, this was in the 80s and early 90s. We heated with wood and kerosene and cut all our own wood. My mom worked 2 jobs and also hung wallpaper on the side to raise us. She would go for months without a day off. I remember our pipes freezing and going without water for weeks. Our well shaft collapsed and we only had use of it down to 30 feet after that, we did not have much water from then on, and during a dry spell would hardly have any. We never had enough money to get a new well put in. When we did not have the money for butane, we would no longer have hot water and would have to boil it on the wood stove for baths (you can boil every pot of water you have in the house and not get 2 inches of bath water out of it). Food was short at times and my brother and I would fish so we would have dinner. Our Window Unit died and we spent 3 Arkansas summers without A/C (unless you live in east Texas or Louisiana, where you live is not hotter and more humid than central and southern Arkansas is in the summer). Despite this, we never took any kind of government assistance at all. This closest I can ever remember us getting to it was getting some commodity cheese a couple of times. We even hit a point at one time where we were homeless and living in a battered women's shelter.

I worked from age 15 on. I worked 2 jobs until I was able to lift myself out of poverty. I moved away as soon as I found better opportunities. My wife and I are now what would be considered upper middle class, but it was a hard road getting here. However, I was able to do that because I was young and had no kids yet or anyone I was responsible for other than myself. It is not so easy when you have kids and a family. You can't just drop everything and leave in the hopes of finding something better.

 

[Papa bull]

They'd have to move out of state. Here they have kinfolks to help out with things, like watching each other's children and helping each other as mentioned above.

None of them have the kind of skills that out of state companies will help you move for. If Mr Poteat wanted to move to where the textile industry is these days, I guess he'd have to move to India or Indonesia.

They couldn't sell their old creaky houses for enough to buy housing "where the jobs are", either... and they don't want to be separated from their kinfolks.


Moving isn't much of an option for them.

Moving is always an option. It might not always be the best option but that's something people have to decide for themselves. The fact is that it's always an option. Life is full of options. My father moved from Cuba to get work. I moved from Ohio to New England for better work. I had to make the move on my own dime with a credit card and cashing out 2,000.00 from my 401K. That was my seed money. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't done that but I know when I made the move, I didn't have much to take with me except all the debt I'd accumulated. 16 years later, I moved back to Ohio, own my home outright, have no debt, money in the bank, an IRA and I'm self-employed in a business that keeps me and my wife comfortable. If you don't live where there's work, either make your own work or move someplace where you can find work. That's always an option.

 

[vesper]

If Elder Poteat is currently 61, he has but a few more months before he can collect his Social Security which will surely help.
The one with the high water bill due to a leak, I'm sure the water company would make some arrangement on promise of payment to turn the water back on. The able body male needs a car to find a job and get to work. It would be nice if other kin and neighbors would help out on that one.
In my community all the churches work together to provide for those in need. Most of them give a portion of their tithes collected from their congregations and put it into a community account. If someone can't afford to fix their car and needs it to get to work can come and find help. Others who can't make their rent due to unforeseen expenses, the same. Kids need shoes whatever. There is no stipulation that you must pay the money back but many do when they get back on their feet. Others will volunteer at the pantry stocking shelves and collecting donations till they are able to find work.

 

[Goshin]

If Elder Poteat is currently 61, he has but a few more months before he can collect his Social Security which will surely help.
The one with the high water bill due to a leak, I'm sure the water company would make some arrangement on promise of payment to turn the water back on. The able body male needs a car to find a job and get to work. It would be nice if other kin and neighbors would help out on that one.
In my community all the churches work together to provide for those in need. Most of them give a portion of their tithes collected from their congregations and put it into a community account. If someone can't afford to fix their car and needs it to get to work can come and find help. Others who can't make their rent due to unforeseen expenses, the same. Kids need shoes whatever. There is no stipulation that you must pay the money back but many do when they get back on their feet. Others will volunteer at the pantry stocking shelves and collecting donations till they are able to find work.

If Mr Poteat takes retirement at 62, he won't get as much as he would if he waited until 65... IIRC.

 

[vesper]

If Mr Poteat takes retirement at 62, he won't get as much as he would if he waited until 65... IIRC.

Well Goshin at this point isn't some better than none?

 

[Goshin]

Well Goshin at this point isn't some better than none?

Depends. IIRC, if you keep working your income cuts into your SS. Right now he's recovered from a diabetes related problem that almost cost him a foot, and as long as he can work he prefers to do so. He just doesn't make much, and his wife's illness eats a lot of his paycheck.

 

[vesper]

Depends. IIRC, if you keep working your income cuts into your SS. Right now he's recovered from a diabetes related problem that almost cost him a foot, and as long as he can work he prefers to do so. He just doesn't make much, and his wife's illness eats a lot of his paycheck.

On SS you are allowed I believe 14,200.00 in income before it affects your SS payout. Seems to me by collecting his SS and continue to work at the Dollar Store on a part-time basis would be advantageous and allow him the extra income for his wife's medical bills. Don't you think?

 

[Goshin]

On SS you are allowed I believe 14,200.00 in income before it affects your SS payout. Seems to me by collecting his SS and continue to work at the Dollar Store on a part-time basis would be advantageous and allow him the need income due to his wife's medical bills. Don't you think?

Possibly. I'll talk with him about it, I'm not sure what his plans are exactly regarding retirement. He's a good guy but he's not too sharp on dealing with bureaucracy and such.

 

[vesper]

Possibly. I'll talk with him about it, I'm not sure what his plans are exactly regarding retirement. He's a good guy but he's not too sharp on dealing with bureaucracy and such.

I certainly had no clue over the "dealings with bureaucracy" until my spouse retired and started collecting his SS. Neither one of us has ever had to deal with the government over any program, not even unemployment. It has been a nightmarish experience. They don't make anything easy and if it can be screwed up they do.

 

[Awesome!]

Possibly. I'll talk with him about it, I'm not sure what his plans are exactly regarding retirement. He's a good guy but he's not too sharp on dealing with bureaucracy and such.

You mentioned they have land that they grow some vegetables. Can they fish in the river, dig for ginsing like that new show on tv? Does the local church or churches offer work of some kind, or a loaner vehicle etc.

When my Father came to CA, he worked his ass off with a major health set back. We relied on the local churches a lot until his business begin to grow.

 

[Cephus]

These ARE working folks, doing the best they know how. Pardon them if they're not as smart as you.

You'd sing a different tune if one day the rug (how you make a good living) got pulled out from under you, leaving you with lots of responsibilities and few resources.

No, my skills are widely translatable, I can find a job easily in many, many fields. About the only way that wouldn't be the case is if we were living in the Mad Max world.

 

[Goshin]

No, my skills are widely translatable, I can find a job easily in many, many fields. About the only way that wouldn't be the case is if we were living in the Mad Max world.

How lovely for you. Not everyone can be a (fill in the blank). Somebody has to change the tires you drive on and stock the shelves in the stores you patronize.

 

[Helix]

So they allowed their houses to fall apart and now their irresponsibility is an excuse for being poor and stupid? Seriously?

ah, yes, the irresponsible, lazy poor meme. how i've missed it. i seem to encounter it less frequently in the wild now that the kids of its proponents are entering the workforce. that'll open your eyes for sure.

belly up to the bar and have a drink with us regular folk.

 

[specklebang]

I certainly had no clue over the "dealings with bureaucracy" until my spouse retired and started collecting his SS. Neither one of us has ever had to deal with the government over any program, not even unemployment. It has been a nightmarish experience. They don't make anything easy and if it can be screwed up they do.

What problems did you have with SS? It took me like 2 phone calls and like magic, money appears in my bank account every month. Apparently, I was lucky. What did you experience? I'm just curious, not challenging you.

 

[specklebang]

If Mr Poteat takes retirement at 62, he won't get as much as he would if he waited until 65... IIRC.

66 now, not 65.

 

[Hard Truth]

Did anyone tell you life would be easy?

I guess it makes some people feel better to think that poor people are to blame for their plight because that means they can tell themselves that it will never happen to them.

 

[specklebang]

Well Goshin at this point isn't some better than none?

Depends. IIRC, if you keep working your income cuts into your SS. Right now he's recovered from a diabetes related problem that almost cost him a foot, and as long as he can work he prefers to do so. He just doesn't make much, and his wife's illness eats a lot of his paycheck.

On SS you are allowed I believe 14,200.00 in income before it affects your SS payout. Seems to me by collecting his SS and continue to work at the Dollar Store on a part-time basis would be advantageous and allow him the extra income for his wife's medical bills. Don't you think?

If you are of normal health, the ideal age to take SS is 70. I admit I took it at 66 because I didn't want to have a death peeve if I died before I made it to 70. But you have to take a long term view with SS. To take it at 62 (unless you have no choice) is an expensive decision for the long run. You need to try and wait untiul your SS payment is enough to actually live on. I get $2172.90 starting this year. I own my house, car and cats outright although cat maintenance isn't cheap. I absolutely could live on it and AFAIK I do live on it. I chose to assist other people like my ex-wife, best friend and other voluntary expenses that bring my total to $4500-$5000. Fortunately, I earn about $2200 a month from rentals so my income and outflow are almost in balance.

Now I'm 70 and I failed to die so I wish I had waited and my check would probably be $3000. But, all in all, wait as long as you can - you never know how long you might live. My Father lived to 100 so he could collect as much as possible from his military retirement. He lived that long out of spite - he was mad at the Army for making a false accusation when he demanded 100% disability. He got it anyway but he never forgave them and lived longer than he wanted to. I know that sounds like BS, but it is true.

 

[Cephus]

How lovely for you. Not everyone can be a (fill in the blank). Somebody has to change the tires you drive on and stock the shelves in the stores you patronize.

Sure they can. Everyone can live responsibly. Everyone can have an education. Everyone can work hard. Everyone can develop a work ethic. Everyone can be upwardly mobile. The people who change my tires shouldn't be satisfied to do that for their entire lives, they should be learning more and moving up all the time. If they're not capable or unwilling, that's their own fault. If you're a minimum-wage-monkey when you're 40, unless something went seriously wrong with the economy, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Cephus]

ah, yes, the irresponsible, lazy poor meme. how i've missed it. i seem to encounter it less frequently in the wild now that the kids of its proponents are entering the workforce. that'll open your eyes for sure.

belly up to the bar and have a drink with us regular folk.

Sorry, I'm too busy working and being responsible.

 

[specklebang]

Sure they can. Everyone can live responsibly. Everyone can have an education. Everyone can work hard. Everyone can develop a work ethic. Everyone can be upwardly mobile. The people who change my tires shouldn't be satisfied to do that for their entire lives, they should be learning more and moving up all the time. If they're not capable or unwilling, that's their own fault. If you're a minimum-wage-monkey when you're 40, unless something went seriously wrong with the economy, you're doing something wrong.

What if you were born with an IQ of 83? How upwardly mobile could you be?

 

[Cephus]

What if you were born with an IQ of 83? How upwardly mobile could you be?

Unless you're fundamentally retarded with an inability to move beyond the mentality of a child, you can. Nobody is talking about those people. We're talking about people who are capable of learning and growing and advancing.

 

[Helix]

Sorry, I'm too busy working and being responsible.

so are most of them. you should slum it with the "proles" for a couple months and see it firsthand.

oh, and while you're slumming it, tell them all about how they can sell their tarpaper shacks and use the proceeds to Clampett their asses the big city. wear a cup, lol. :lol:

 

[specklebang]

Unless you're fundamentally retarded with an inability to move beyond the mentality of a child, you can. Nobody is talking about those people. We're talking about people who are capable of learning and growing and advancing.

I think you greatly over-rate people's capacities. Just because you are intelligent doesn't mean that most people are. Otherwise, everyone would be a CEO and nobody would mop the floors.