Do you agree with Massie, Khanna, and MTG reading the Epstein list names on the House floor

[Fletch]

Simple. Both parties are guilty. I'm not sure exactly who is guilty, but they are obviously very powerful people. The fact that people from both parties are speaking out means everyone wants to know and their is likely no stopping this.

That could be. But if there are women out there who can identify specific people as abusers, they should step forward. Reading a list of names denies the people named any opportunity to clear their names.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Because there's a good chance she could hit some innocent people by intentionally targeting someone who was never really on the list but added by this administration or those in Congress, and intentionally keep certain others out of the targets to further her political agenda.

The main thing I would rather see is independent verification of any list.

I do think though that reading it in Congress is a political dog and pony show, not helpful.

There is a good reason for the reading in congress. None of the victims can be sued. And all the congress critters are protected by the constitution.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Oh I am fine with the cops pursuing this, and the DA's office because they are pursuing justice. They have tools at their disposal which do not include running to the likes of Congress to have folks like batshit crazy Margorie naming names in the well of the House. . They get granted subpoenas from a judge weighs conflicting law enforcement interests and the public policy implications of breaking confidentiality agreements made by law enforcement with which they acquired testimony to convict Epstein and Maxwell. This investigation required that law enforcement use informants who insisted on anonymity and yes, probably immunity. Now we have both the Trump administration and Congress undermining those agreements, even risking Maxwell's conviction and sentence, to get her to 'cooperate' and name their preferred set of names for public consumption in a sweetheart deal for clemency.

None of this is about justice. Most of these 'crimes' you may get at now will be obstruction, conspiracy, facilitating, or perjury etc, have statutes of limitations attached anyway . This not about who knew what or did what at that Island that was illegal and provable. Its about weaponizing the roster of celebrities who knew Epstein and destroying influential Republicans or Democrats depending on which axe you want ground.

Epstein didn't really have a business other than sex trafficking. If you were working with him, let alone PLAYING with him, you were using his services or at the very least knew it was happening. Zero innocent people in this. It' amazing to me how hard this country fights to protect the criminality of wealthy people. Just sickening.

 

[The AntiDonald]

But I doubt this is all the victims. And there are so many other factors that go into corroboration.

I'm still much more for just keeping it in courts, releasing info through those other means than making a political show of it in Congress.

Unredacted court documents? Go for it. But it shouldn't be just a created listee read aloud without info with it.

Well then, call the AG and demand she investigate. See how far that goes. Even if she wanted to, Trump won't allow it.

 

[The AntiDonald]

That could be. But if there are women out there who can identify specific people as abusers, they should step forward. Reading a list of names denies the people named any opportunity to clear their names.

Most likely the majority of the victims are scared to death. No doubt they have all been threatened.

 

[roguenuke]

There is a good reason for the reading in congress. None of the victims can be sued. And all the congress critters are protected by the constitution.

Victims sharing their stories in Congress is different than reading a list of names in Congress though. Do that then. Calling it sharing a list in Congress is not the same as having them share their stories.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The only reason I am voting yes is the victims who have come forward are all (as best I can tell) demanding full release.

 

[roguenuke]

Well then, call the AG and demand she investigate. See how far that goes. Even if she wanted to, Trump won't allow it.

Not being able to get what you want to happen, especially at this moment, doesn't mean you go through other means that can be manipulated and set a bad precedent though either. There's a reason we have "innocent until proven guilty" and it shouldn't be the government putting people up as "guilty" by doing something like this. That is setting a precedent for McCarthyism, further McCarthyism.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Victims sharing their stories in Congress is different than reading a list of names in Congress though. Do that then. Calling it sharing a list in Congress is not the same as having them share their stories.

Then demand the GOP controlled congress has a public hearing, subpoena as many as can be found. You know Trump won't allow this as he has total control over his minions .

 

[multivita-man]

No rebuttal. Just nothing. You are the problem because your demand for 'more' is just fuel for a fire you have no intention of controlling, containing. Its more like throwing lit matches on piles of dry sticks and saying it is good to have a campfire.

More truth and more justice is a good thing.

 

[PopMartian]

That could be. But if there are women out there who can identify specific people as abusers, they should step forward. Reading a list of names denies the people named any opportunity to clear their names.

Seriously, When thirty women all agree on who raped them, who are you worried about ? Time to drag these pedophiles out of the darkness.

 

[btthegreat]

Epstein didn't really have a business other than sex trafficking. If you were working with him, let alone PLAYING with him, you were using his services or at the very least knew it was happening. Zero innocent people in this. It' amazing to me how hard this country fights to protect the criminality of wealthy people. Just sickening.

No, I actually insist on evidence that people knew what you claim people had to know, mostly because most sex offenders, prefer that people (friends, family,acquaintances) not know the very thing you insist that everyone knew. Even if it is not dangerous from a law enforcement perspective, it still is from a social standard. Nobody likes the social judgement of being thought of as a pedo or sex trafficker and people, by nature will work very hard to keep such interests quiet from the wrong ears. Sex predators get practiced at hiding it so more people will not know, than will know.

You make a very interesting wealth point here. I see a complete double standard too. Nobody is targeting the maids, the cooks, the staff to make sure they are on the 'list' except insofar as they can testify against the rich and powerful . they get to hang around 8 hour day after 8 hour day, week after week, but we are not thinking that they collude, conspire, or facilitate sufficient that we should burn them in effigy on the media cross. We distrust and are suspicious of people that are not like us, in race, faith, ethnicity, orientation, life experience and economic class. Its natural.

You would be very happy living in the days of the Salem Witch-hunts. If you associate with a witch, you must have seen the witch-craft. Lets start the next trial!!!

We both agree that bigotry based on economic class is a thing. But I see that bigotry as possible two- way street, and you see one way traffic.

 

[The Brad Dad]

No, I actually insist on evidence that people knew what you claim people had to know, mostly because most sex offenders, prefer that people (friends, family,acquaintances) not know the very thing you insist that everyone knew. Even if it is not dangerous from a law enforcement perspective, it still is from a social standard. Nobody likes the social judgement of being thought of as a pedo or sex trafficker and people, by nature will work very hard to keep such interests quiet from the wrong ears. Sex predators get practiced at hiding it so more people will not know, than will know.

You make a very interesting wealth point here. I see a complete double standard too. Nobody is targeting the maids, the cooks, the staff to make sure they are on the 'list' except insofar as they can testify against the rich and powerful . they get to hang around 8 hour day after 8 hour day, week after week, but we are not thinking that they collude, conspire, or facilitate sufficient that we should burn them in effigy on the media cross. We distrust and are suspicious of people that are not like us, in race, faith, ethnicity, orientation, life experience and economic class. Its natural.

We both agree that bigotry based on economic class is a thing. But I see that bigotry as possible two- way street, and you see one way traffic.

If you were in business with Jeffrey Epstein, I think it's fine if society shuns you. Maga wouldn't be as insane as it is if public shame and public shaming still existed.

There is no means for hotel staff to know why anyone is ****ing anyone else at a hotel. This isn't a double standard. A double standard is insisting the poorest most powerless in the story next to the victims should be made to answer for anything. Most probably weren't even here legally because Trump loves cheap labor same as most hotel owners.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Not being able to get what you want to happen, especially at this moment, doesn't mean you go through other means that can be manipulated and set a bad precedent though either. There's a reason we have "innocent until proven guilty" and it shouldn't be the government putting people up as "guilty" by doing something like this. That is setting a precedent for McCarthyism, further McCarthyism.

I didn't see MAGA complaining when MTG was showing Hunter's dick picks.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Not being able to get what you want to happen, especially at this moment, doesn't mean you go through other means that can be manipulated and set a bad precedent though either. There's a reason we have "innocent until proven guilty" and it shouldn't be the government putting people up as "guilty" by doing something like this. That is setting a precedent for McCarthyism, further McCarthyism.

I didn't see MAGA complaining when MTG was showing Hunter's dick picks.

 

[bomberfox]

Only if the survivors have given their ok.

 

[Gardener]

I believe all names should be released and all victim testimony should be considered.

There are obviously names of both republicans and democrats involved and I find the hyper-partisan desire for a "gotcha!" moment to be very childish.

 

[btthegreat]

More truth and more justice is a good thing.

I agree. But neither truth nor justice gets served with a mob mentality, guilt by association, and conspiracy theories running rampant only contained by partisan concerns that someone batting from 'their' team might get hit by a ball. This has got all the makings of a Joe McCarthyist Congressional committee starting from a terrible premise, to a fictional narrative fueled by bloodlust and satiated on our worst instincts, not any better angels like Lady Justice


We are actually undermining real justice in the sentence of convicted felon Maxwell, to feed conspiracies carefully tailored by partisans for their own agenda. The only winners will be the 'team' that successfully drives its opponents out of office via 'the scandal' and profit seeking traditional and social media.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I wish you'd had the option "I don't care" available, because I really don't.

I don't think Trump's name will be mentioned because he and that "creep" parted ways years prior to Epstein's arrest and that is a publicly known fact.

Now it's being reported that Trump was an "FBI confidential informant" against Epstein.

I know the Democrats would love to smear Trump with such a connection, but IMO there is simply no truth to those aspersions. Just more TDS "Trump is evil so he had to be involved in all things bad...." assumption bias.

The one thing I will say is that if the "Epstein Files" provide any factual evidence of criminal acts, then the perpetrators should be prosecuted if the acts have not exceeded any statute of limitations bar.

More verbal excrament from you Sir, truly well done.

 

[roguenuke]

I didn't see MAGA complaining when MTG was showing Hunter's dick picks.

I'm certainly not MAGA and didn't approve of that. That's MAGA tricks that shouldn't be done either.

 

[roguenuke]

Then demand the GOP controlled congress has a public hearing, subpoena as many as can be found. You know Trump won't allow this as he has total control over his minions .

You don't compromise on what is right simply because the other side is full of douchebags, idiots and corrupt assholes.

While there is room for some compromise, and I'm not completely against something like testimony from any of the victims involved or even releasing actual unredacted court documents, it should be for a purpose other than "exposure" when done in Congress, by Congress.

 

[BitterPill]

What was reading the names of the Epstein list on the House floor supposed to accomplish?

I'll abstain from voting until I'm clear on why they did this.

That could be. But if there are women out there who can identify specific people as abusers, they should step forward. Reading a list of names denies the people named any opportunity to clear their names.

That's three lists. Where are these lists and how do we know they exist? The OP refers to "the epstein list" as if there's some master list somewhere.

Not being able to get what you want to happen, especially at this moment, doesn't mean you go through other means that can be manipulated and set a bad precedent though either. There's a reason we have "innocent until proven guilty" and it shouldn't be the government putting people up as "guilty" by doing something like this. That is setting a precedent for McCarthyism, further McCarthyism.

We need more NO votes, people, so now is the time to show your love and respect for our country.

MAGA.

 

[btthegreat]

If you were in business with Jeffrey Epstein, I think it's fine if society shuns you. Maga wouldn't be as insane as it is if public shame and public shaming still existed.

There is no means for hotel staff to know why anyone is ****ing anyone else at a hotel. This isn't a double standard. A double standard is insisting the poorest most powerless in the story next to the victims should be made to answer for anything. Most probably weren't even here legally because Trump loves cheap labor same as most hotel owners.

Wow! So the guests and of persons of means had to know, but the staff working intimately could not know because one had money in securities, and the other had a checking account? Do you not think the maid or staff member, or who cleans the room does not see the evidence of semen on the sheets, a stray condom, overhear the victim talking but some business partner of friend who went there for an overnight stay once in two years HAS TO KNOW.

Read this article and just count the people who plausibly had financial or business contact with him, that was not directly related to these girls. Just all those other reasons to call or text him or his staff, attorneys, accountants, advisors, property managers, tax advisors, investment strategists, all those people that either worked for him or someone else. They are all guilty of knowing about his side business.

How about all those social friendships, the people who enjoyed his company, like to exploit the social events or liked hobnobbing with the 'wealthy'. All of them know more that the household staff?

You are not rational. You are not waiting for evidence, you are creating a narrative.

People of any economic class or position, can facilitate to obstruct, can perjure, can conspire, but none of that really matters if the statute of limitations or the evidenciary burden cannot be met, and a conviction possibility is virtually nil. Then all we have is a witchhunt. You don't care if the witch 'deserves' to be shunned and shamed for something else anyway - like being MAGA!!

 

[dairyair]

The question is straightforward.

Which list?
Victims? Or Perps?
People he knew?

What exactly is this straight forward list?

Read the perps, not the victims.

 

[dairyair]

What was reading the names of the Epstein list on the House floor supposed to accomplish?

I'll abstain from voting until I'm clear on why they did this.

Bringing to the public, those that knew about or committed assaults on females. Some of whom were under age. Making it illegal.

I believe, criminals is the usual term.