Do we need more border patrole agents?

[MMC]

Yes, but it might be better to use border state Guard units as opposed to moving people back and forth from Maine or Ohio or wherever. It would be the payroll equipment costs of X numbers of additional BP vs. the transportation and lodging cost of Guard. There are arguments for or against always having fresh eyes of NG as opposed to having experienced people who can build long-term knowledge of patterns of attempted entrants.

Yeah I see.....course I was looking at the states that that reside on the Border. Using their Own Guard and reserves more. It is their states these people are coming thru. Course The same would be for the Northern Border as well.

Also I wasnt counting that the LEs would be removed. I figured it would allow them to be more involved with what you are talking about with criminal activities.

One thing is for certain.....the people migrating in will know about the drones and the spying. Which more and more we are seeing how they are going underground and building tunnels that run for miles across the border.

 

[Fisher]

I just wonder how long it will be before drug & people smugglers start building/acquiring anti-aircraft weapons

 

[specklebang]

I understand. I didn't think we would "invade" Mexico and your analysis is reasonable. We've become quite the homicidal nation in the last 12 years and Obama doesn't seem t mind pulling a trigger so that may well be what is needed.

I remember reading about the border crossings and the hardships some endured crossing te barren desert to get to the border. Maybe that has changed. I would hope that we wouldn't have to kill (relativel) harmless civilian but hey, if we must, we must.

Now, the real question is wether we really want to control the border or if our corporations that use this cheap labor will bring cash to Washington and turn all this into empty threats.

I am not talking about taking drones into the mexican areas and droning people like we do in the middle east. I am talking about having a line where you are warned not to cross and then if you continue to advance deadly force could be used against people. before you get into it, I know that some military bases have such lines here in america, especially after 9/11. They do not shoot you the moment you get there, but there is a point where you can get shot for continuing to try and enter. They could easily use drones, jets, and helicopters to monitor approach, and to dispatch a much more mobile response to areas. if there was ever a heavily armed attempt like is said drug cartels may do or be doing they would certainly be able to respond to it much better than a force like border patrol who would not be initially prepared to deal with an assault.

This doesn't have to be an out of control military operation where we are slaughtering mexicans. There may be an initial time of a few deaths because people crossing might test the resolve of the military to shoot. I cannot say that it would be without deaths as to back up force you have to be willing to use it. I am just saying that a truely secured border would be much better accomplished through a military presence to secure it. It would also be cheaper, and a far better use for our military than foreign wars.

if people do not want to go this route perhaps they should rethink their immigration stance because this is what a secure border involves and if that bothers you then maybe a secure border is not the solution you are looking for. Paying people money to pretend to secure the border and not be willing to use deadly force to secure it only means the desperate or greedy people who try and cross it face little real consequence for making the attempt. So why not try crossing if you can make it since you get your reward if you make it, and you just a bit banged up and can try again if you do not.

 

[specklebang]

Welfare is more of a state and city issue and moving people is kind of a Federal action so I doubt this strategy will be used. But I understand your point. Just wonder how you deal with the women and kids. Many of our welfare pros are women who have many babies, since thats where the money is. What do we do with them?

Not everyone is physically capable of picking crops. I surely couldn't. Fortunately, I don't need to since I write my own welfare checks

That's why you cut welfare in Detroit and advertise those jobs heck you can even give then a ride on Amtrak no more of this sitting on government benifiets waiting for a job to come to your area you go to the job.

 

[specklebang]

Those are some pretty reasonable ideas you have. I like tht special town concept. As for drugs, well, they will get them here or we can finally wake up, legalize and produce domestically.

Very good Tererun.

That is a different solution to making a secure border. Maybe people really do not want a "secure" border and simply want restrictions on what would be visitors get from america. If that is the case then we should move towrds something like that which allows border crossing, but restricts your ability to stay. Of course, that will also lead to the possibility of someone using mexico to sneak contraband over to the US like drugs or weapons.

Also, in regards to the time it would take to make these towns it would take some time. The military can set up temporary operation centers because that is something they have to do. They also have engineer squads who can make the start of housing units for troops. They are well equipped to start the initial setup. It is also good that they can do this because if done right they can chose strategic positions rather than arbitrary positions for the mission to secure the border. Considering the border security would be an ongoing part of operations of america unless we are planning to absorb mexico, it wouldn't make much difference as they would be mostly permanent fixtures anyway.

being there is no real hard border set up in a lot of these places we could plan it to fit what we want it to do. We could customize it to a continually operating purpose and maybe even have it so border towns can have easy and efficient crossing areas where needed. I do not know the full scope of it, but this is something our military can use it's budget to do, and according to many people it would make america safer.

 

[specklebang]

Yeah, it's nasty hard work, suitable for the young and strong. I'm neither.

Doubt it was worse than pulling tobacco which I did some too. Awful work.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

You can shoot someone who is breaking into your home so as far as I can see you can shoot someone breaking into your country. Lets end this s***.

 

[Black Dog]

We see the effects of border patrol without securing the border right here and right now. We already have it. people end up crossing the border every day. We ship them back and they come back over again. They are not scared of the border patrol, they are scared of being caught and having to go back to start. It is not stopping them. If you want to stop them, you can put a end to most of their efforts. Let us not waste the money on half assed ineffective efforts. if you do not want them here then lock down what they come here for. No more jobs and no more benefits. Then all we have is a bunch of visitors. You cannot vote. you cannot have your kids go to school. You cannot work. You pay cash for medical care. You do not get welfare. Your drivers license should be valid from your home country. You cannot register a car, and you do not get any mail here at a residence. You cannot set up utilities either. In other words you are on vacation here and you are just a visitor. use the money we would spend on border guards to crack down on hiring illegals.

So in other words you have no cost analysis or proof to support your position.

Nice attempt to leave out the only shooting the ones crossing the border. It is not like I am saying we should fly over mexico city and start doing signature strikes. It is pretty damned easy to see if someone walks up to the border, warn them of the danger, and then shoot them if they cross the line. They are not staying mexican nationals if they are trying to get into our country illegally.

Obviously you have no idea. Now answer my question and stop dodging...

What would be the ramifications on this countrys economy and our relations with Mexico if we just started shooting Mexican nationals? What would be the ramifications if we started using armed tanks and predators on our unprotected Southern border?

Again, you are trying to spend a lot of money doing very little. Just say you do not want a secure border.

Stop dodging and answer the question...

You have thought nothing through and have no clue as to how such an asinine plan would play out. Then you say it's either that or let em in. No.

It has been going on for a while. half assed border patrols are not stopping people from crossing. The new immigration bill puts one agent per 500 yards. That is an agent who you say should not be allowed to shoot anyone crossing. Go out on a golf course and find a 4-500 yard hole. Think about you having to protect that from a bunch of people trying to cross without any fatal weapons. This is not failing because we have not put enough effort into it. This is failing because you cannot accomplish it with the attitude you are talking about.

No it has not been "going on for awhile." as what I suggested has not been tried. Here try again...

I don't think we need to be killing people for a felony that is not a threat to life or property. Goes against everything we believe in. Another thing is when and if they were caught, they should immediately be handed over to civilian authority and not left to the military. The military are not police and should not be expected to use lethal force outside of defense, or detain prisoners under any circumstance. They are not trained police officers and should not be expected to act as such.

I have no problem with using military assets to secure the boarder as long as it is implemented under the watchful eye of civilian law enforcement.

I have been in both positions, military and civilian law enforcement. Trust me when I say you do not want to leave this in the hands of the military alone. This is not a war or invasion.

In essence you have yet to really address even a single question put to you.

Then don't bother with the expense of something you are not getting accomplished anyway. Spend it on a valid worker database, or other methods of keeping illegals from setting up a permanent residence. We do not need to pay some dufuses to roam around the desert playing grab ass with the couple of border jumpers they catch while all the other ones just wander on by.

Oh really? According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million illegal immigrants entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33–50% of the total population.A smaller number of illegal immigrants entered the United States legally using the Border Crossing Card. he Pew Hispanic Center estimates the number at around 250,000–500,000. - Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Border patrol does far more than just " roam around the desert playing grab ass with the couple of border jumpers they catch while all the other ones just wander on by." In fact your ignorance on this aspect is quite telling...

While its primary mission is preventing terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the United States, CBP is also responsible for apprehending individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally including those with a criminal record, stemming the flow of illegal drugs and other contraband, protecting United States agricultural and economic interests from harmful pests and diseases, and protecting American businesses from intellectual property theft. - U.S. Customs and Border Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia