DO I support racism?[W:433]

[ttwtt78640]

Re: DO I support racism?

so because I will not deal with him, I am being tyrannical?

That depends upon the reason for not dealing with him. If I decline to take a job because I am too busy, the job is too big/small or outside of my travel distance that is one thing but if I decline the job because of his race, religion or gender then that is another.

 

[Gipper]

Re: DO I support racism?

Same thing. Providing electrical power is a service. And, you are completely incorrect in your assumption that only government can be tyrannical.

Electrical power? Has ANYONE here argued for institutional or public sector racism?

This is about PRIVATE business and freedom of association. Also, the belief that, were this allowed, it would become the norm to the point that it'd be more than a mild annoyance is absurd.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Electrical power? Has ANYONE here argued for institutional or public sector racism?

This is about PRIVATE business and freedom of association. Also, the belief that, were this allowed, it would become the norm to the point that it'd be more than a mild annoyance is absurd.

I don't have the option of a public service provider for my electric company. It is a large multinational based in the UK.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Business provides a service. It has no right to repress based on person's characteristics.

Why?

It is a person's business. He may very well be stupid, bigoted, prejudiced, racist, ignorant, hateful, and the worst businessman in the world, but it is his property, his investment, his risk.

By what criteria of liberty does anybody else have a right to tell him how he must run his business?

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Obviously you never heard of the Bill of Rights, which is part of the constitution.

The Bill of Rights does not grant rights. It recognizes rights and forbids government to interfere with them.

 

[Henrin]

Re: DO I support racism?

Um, yes you are if you deny a person service because you don't like the color of their skin. That is called oppression.

No, deciding on who and under what conditions you will commence in commerce is not oppressive. It is making a decision on your own labor, association, and property. Yes, it's about control, but all human rights are about the individual having control over their own person or property.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Electrical power? Has ANYONE here argued for institutional or public sector racism?

This is about PRIVATE business and freedom of association. Also, the belief that, were this allowed, it would become the norm to the point that it'd be more than a mild annoyance is absurd.

Exactly, a distinction our resident tunnel visioned folk don't seem to be able to make. Certainly the private business that is awarded a legal monopoly in a trade area should be required to serve the entire community without reservation. And likewise a public institution should be required to serve all equally.

But a private business that has no protection from competition can be required to conform to community standards re construction, signage, and other outward appearances that affects his/her neighbors, but nobody but the business owner should have any say how he otherwise conducts his business.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Why?

It is a person's business. He may very well be stupid, bigoted, prejudiced, racist, ignorant, hateful, and the worst businessman in the world, but it is his property, his investment, his risk.

By what criteria of liberty does anybody else have a right to tell him how he must run his business?

As an entity that provides services and/or goods to the public, it also has the power to harm people by limiting them. Let's say a person lives in an area where discrimination is prevalent, they may have to go many miles just to be able to buy products they may need. If certain municipalities have been privatized and sold to a private company that monopolizes an area and are prejudice of certain people they choose not to do business with, they may not even get services at all or may be at risk for exploitation. Let's say one local business says it will offer them services but at a premium price. There is nothing right about it.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

No, deciding on who and under what conditions you will commence in commerce is not oppressive. It is making a decision on your own labor, association, and property. Yes, it's about control, but all human rights are about the individual having control over their own person or property.

Oh sure, everything is fine and good as long as signs aren't on windows that read we will not sell to people named Henrin:lol:

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

As an entity that provides services and/or goods to the public, it also has the power to harm people by limiting them. Let's say a person lives in an area where discrimination is prevalent, they may have to go many miles just to be able to buy products they may need. If certain municipalities have been privatized and sold to a private company that monopolizes an area and are prejudice of certain people they choose not to do business with, they may not even get services at all or may be at risk for exploitation. Let's say one local business says it will offer them services but at a premium price. There is nothing right about it.

We are not talking about monopolies. We are talking about liberty and the right of a person to be who and what he is and to utilize his own private property as he chooses. And in your personal moral code, and in my personal moral code, it would be wrong to discriminate against people based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. But it should also be wrong to presume to dictate to others who and what they must be.

So those of us who adopt a live and let live moral code can fault those who tell gay people they should not be gay or Atheists that they should not be Atheist or Christians that they should not be Christian. But what is the difference between that and telling somebody that they must provide services for a function they believe to be immoral or wrong?

The baker should no more be required to set up a wedding cake at a gay wedding than he should be required to set up a cake at an anti-gay meeting.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

We are not talking about monopolies. We are talking about liberty and the right of a person to be who and what he is and to utilize his own private property as he chooses. And in your personal moral code, and in my personal moral code, it would be wrong to discriminate against people based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. But it should also be wrong to presume to dictate to others who and what they must be.

So those of us who adopt a live and let live moral code can fault those who tell gay people they should not be gay or Atheists that they should not be Atheist or Christians that they should not be Christian. But what is the difference between that and telling somebody that they must provide services for a function they believe to be immoral or wrong?

The baker should no more be required to set up a wedding cake at a gay wedding than he should be required to set up a cake at an anti-gay meeting.

We went that route when black people were not allowed to go into certain shops, restrooms, drink out of bubblers. It amazes me people can justify this as fine. At any rate, what it led to was a certain group of people being oppressed.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

We went that route when black people were not allowed to go into certain shops, restrooms, drink out of bubblers. It amazes me people can justify this as fine. At any rate, what it led to was a certain group of people being oppressed.

Sigh. What is it with you people that you can't address a concept on its own merits? That forces you to change the dynamics and emphasis of an argument when you can't counter it on its own merits?

So you believe you should be required to set up that cake at the anti-gay rally/convention that is spewing all manner of hateful and ignorantly stupid rhetoric against gays and, if you refuse, you are arguing for segregation. Fine. That is your conviction and I will defend your right to have your own personal moral code no matter what it is. Or no matter how silly it is.

But I wouldn't set up that cake at an anti-gay rally. I would not want my business associated with that. Nor would I set up a cake for a celebration at the Westboro Baptist Church or at a dog fight facility.

But using common sense, I have to believe that if I exercise my own moral convictions believing that to be the right thing to do, even though many would disagree with me and not share those convictions, I must also allow others to act on their moral convictions also, even if I disagree with them.

Can you at all understand that?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Sigh. What is it with you people that you can't address a concept on its own merits?

Ah, but I did. You just didn't like it. It is the truth. Blacks were oppressed due to many places of business refusing them service. Nothing right about it.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Ah, but I did. You just didn't like it. It is the truth. Blacks were oppressed due to many places of business refusing them service. Nothing right about it.

No you didn't. You changed the focus of the argument because you could not or would not respond to the point I was making. And until you do respond to the point I was making I won't go to a different subject with you.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

No you didn't. You changed the focus of the argument because you could not or would not respond to the point I was making. And until you do respond to the point I was making I won't go to a different subject with you.

Your point was a bad one.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: DO I support racism?

Oh sure, everything is fine and good as long as signs aren't on windows that read we will not sell to people named Henrin:lol:

Define "fine and good."

If I encountered a sign that said no *insert my ethnicity here* allowed or no Texans allowed or no tall people allowed, I wouldn't be fine with it, I would probably be upset and I would probably tell people about this stupid place on social media... it's still that business owner's right to refuse me service for any reason. I don't have to like it and I can certainly exercise my right to free speech about my displeasure.

Of course, some people in this thread have said they would start assaulting the business and thus we need laws to prevent hyper-aggressive, angry people like themselves since they have no self-control. Yikes, what an argument...

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Define "fine and good."

If I encountered a sign that said no *insert my ethnicity here* allowed or no Texans allowed or no tall people allowed, I wouldn't be fine with it, I would be upset and I would probably tell people about this stupid place on social media... it's still that business owner's right to refuse me service for an arbitrary reason. I don't have to like it and the rest of the public hopefully won't.

The point is the more businesses that discriminate you, the harder it will be for you to receive certain services/products. Let's face it, certain groups of people are discriminated more than others.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: DO I support racism?

The point is the more businesses that discriminate you, the harder it will be for you to receive certain services/products.

Okay.

It's not like I have a right to any particular good or service; I only have money and I want to exchange it for them.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Your point was a bad one.

Then you should have shown how it was bad instead of changing the subject. And since it appears you have zero interest in debating the topic, I will just wish you a nice day and move on.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Okay.

It's not like I have a right to any particular good or service; I only have money and I want to exchange it for them.

True but you have a right to be treated as a human no matter your religion, skin color, sexual orientation.....for example, telling a black person they can't shop at their store because someone may hate their skin color or telling a gay person they can't purchase gas in town because the owner thinks he's/she's gross is treating people less than human.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: DO I support racism?

Okay.

It's not like I have a right to any particular good or service; I only have money and I want to exchange it for them.

That is right. I have no right to demand that anybody open a bakery or a flower shop or a repair facility or a restaurant or a Dollar Store. I have no right to demand that anybody carry any kind of product or provide me any kind of service. I have no right to be waited on or welcomed or valued as a customer. Of course those that do welcome me, treat me with courtesy and efficiency, and offer the products and services that I want will get my business and a lot more of my money than those who do not.

Those who conduct their business in a way that is unacceptable to their customers and communities will not enjoy much in the way of business and likely will see their business fail without a single organized boycott and without having a single protester marching outside. And they effectively beg for somebody to go into competition against them. It is as simple as that.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

Then you should have shown how it was bad instead of changing the subject. And since it appears you have zero interest in debating the topic, I will just wish you a nice day and move on.

Again, I did. We did deny people services based on people's opinions and it didn't work out so well. Have a great day.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: DO I support racism?

True but you have a right to be treated as a human no matter your religion, skin color, sexual orientation

I may have that expectation, but I certainly don't have that right.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: DO I support racism?

I may have that expectation, but I certainly don't have that right.

So, it is your contention that humans shouldn't have a right to be treated like a human?

 

[JayDubya]

Re: DO I support racism?

So, it is your contention that humans shouldn't have a right to be treated like a human?

I think you should treat others like you want to be treated.

No one has a right to have other folks be nice to them.